Funny, I tried it once with z rims in the 80's. Never really worked for me.
ENVE DH rims?
- Thread starter grooveninja
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hmm weird, RM didnt like the link I guess. chain love had Reynolds carbon xc/am wheels on the site for 599, they are gone now.
isnt that normal for a Kona?
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We are talking about AM wheels. I wouldnt run Enve AM for DH. Their site outlines it quite clearly not to do that.
i thought they came that what? with the headtube completely severed from the main frame
ive only seen supercars with carbon rims.
maybe they only use them because a metal rim will bend before it breaks making it still usable. id think with a carbon rim, it wouldnt bend, it would blow up. obviously pure internets speculation
I have seen a rennworx GT3 wheel that's a forged AL center with Carbon barrels after a nasty collision with a wall at laguna seca. The centers broke and the barrels looked ok.
But at that point with a impact that bad, the whole wheel is junk.No doubt Carbon is strong, but if it isnt 1/3 the weight, 4x the strength and only 2x the cost of its metal counterpart. Well its just doesnt seem worth it.
But at that point with a impact that bad, the whole wheel is junk.No doubt Carbon is strong, but if it isnt 1/3 the weight, 4x the strength and only 2x the cost of its metal counterpart. Well its just doesnt seem worth it.
I've never heard of it...
I've only heard of rear ends braking, and that even seems rare.
Yeah. Carbon Havens just aren't the type of wheel I'd run on say, a 4X bike even. I just got a set, but they'll be reserved to trail duty only.
After checking both the Eastons and Edge/Enve rims back to back, I can say without question the Eastons are more refined in the rims appearance and construction.
I don't think he was even running the carbon versions, I think he might have been running the DH/FR wheels. Havoc or whatever.
Road bikes and ATVs have carbon/beadlock rims. Its come full circle, now MX is behind and pulling tech from mtb. Figure many companies do multiple sports, 2 friends just got spinergy pbo wheels last year from sponsors as the new thing.
ACS "Z-Rims"!!!
These things were OEM on my 84' HARO Sport! Pretty rad for their time.
Coincidentally I wrote about the ENVE/EDGE carbon rims in Cesar Rojo's "Can You Guys Help Me With This Build?" thread...
As far as durability goes think about this:
Syndicate used them exclusively throughout last season on all of the team-issue DH rigs, and are using them again for 2011. From what I've read in interviews with their mechanics the guys on the team like the decreased rotational mass the carbon rims have to offer, BUT they also like a few unexpected benefits such as vibration damping and increased lateral stiffness as well as dent resistance.
Peaty, Minnaar, and Bryceland are not small riders by any means and considering the speeds and courses they are racing at their level of game - if the rims were blowing up at the end of every weekend, you can bet that as an overseer of team activities, Roskopp would pull the plug on the ENVE/EDGE program and the team would go back to DT.
Would I pay $700 to $800 for a carbon DH rim given the above advantages if it proved to be reliable? Probably not. For half that price? Maybe. As with most technology, the more it is used by more people, the less expensive it becomes to own. I don't know the exact lay-up process for a carbon DH rim, but I imagine it must be fairly laborius.
Hopefully, if there is enough demand prices will come down in the future, but for now - it's really more for the guy with some extra cash burning a hole in his pocket and the desire to "go for it".
As somebody who formerly, routinely worked on road bikes upwards of $15,000... I can wholly validate this statement.
It really is a game to some of those folks.
Can't really fault 'em too though... it's people like those that keep the lights on!
Don't forget about Jaime Goldman, the other Syndicate rider, who beats the hell of out his Edge/Enve rims.
tru dat.As somebody who formerly, routinely worked on road bikes upwards of $15,000... I can wholly validate this statement.
It really is a game to some of those folks.
Can't really fault 'em too though... it's people like those that keep the lights on!
Motocross doesn't even have doublewall rims yet and their tubeless kit is a pain. They're way behind in the wheel department.
seriously, they're still all Bender'd out on twenny fo's n shiznit
Tell me more! Actual weight? Stiff? Why would you not run them on a Enduro/Mini DH Bike? I see people using the AL Havens for that and they seem to like them (and not destroy them either).
I'm building a 5 inch trail bike to use them on. The warranty convinced me to try them, but they're stupid-light! Combined weight for both wheels was 1490 grams... (20mm front, 142x12mm rear.) I can't say much more as they've never even seen a tire yet. I'm waiting on more parts...
I'm 200lbs and ride full-retard style though. Sure, the warranty's great, but I'll still treat them with respect to a point. They're not going on my Slopestyle any time soon.
I'm not necessarily arguing with you, but I thought it was funny how you used the terms "BRAND NEW CARBON FRAMED BIKE" and "fancy plastic rims" right next to each other without a hint of irony.
As far as how the wheels track, how could they NOT behave differently from metal rims? Different material, different flexibility properties means differences in reaction to impacts...right? I'm not saying they're better or worse, just that nobody knows until they try it. Granted, suspension plays a huge role in tracking, but I find it hard to believe that a wheel made from a different substance would behave exactly the same.
wow, up to 5 pages. how can you tell it's january?
regardless, carbon dh rims are the future. dropping significant wheel mass while increasing durability is huge. prices will inevitably come down and anyone who's anyone will have them.
i'm thinking dh tires could stand to lose some mass next. lower density rubbers, aramid fibers instead of steel...
regardless, carbon dh rims are the future. dropping significant wheel mass while increasing durability is huge. prices will inevitably come down and anyone who's anyone will have them.
i'm thinking dh tires could stand to lose some mass next. lower density rubbers, aramid fibers instead of steel...
We are going to need a more secure bead-rim interface too. We've been blowing tubed tires off of the rims when shredding due to the added stiffness. The new UST shaped bead seats on the 2011 rims might help. Or not.
Oookay...
The Reynolds AM wheels i've been testing are pretty interesting. They're using a UST inner rim profile (with tape to seal up the spoke holes) and 1500g for a wheelset. They're shooting for $1600 with their own hubs (light, cheap, taiwanese). You have to buy a warranty though. saving 400g on a wheelset makes a huge difference. The rims aren't 200g lighter each over my Flows, but you can get away with 28 superlight spokes and alloy nips since the rims are sooo stiff. They do ride smoother, and when you hit em on a rock it sounds like hitting a PVC pipe on the ground which is quieter and feels softer than hitting an aluminum rim on a rock.
Reynolds blew out the old XC wheels, hidden nips, aero roadie lookin, and no UST.
The Easton rims are realy cool. They are UST and use a threaded insert kind of like mavic Deemax's so the rim is airtight without tape. 2yr no questions asked replacement. Carbon armoring with a plastic that's infused on the surface.
Minnaar and Peaty used to go back and forth between DT 1750 white wheels that are disposable and red 2350 wheels that are stiff and make it to the bottom. I think they allways wanted to run the 1750's byt kept having to go with 2350s especially on gnarly tracks. Now they can run Enve rims which are lighter than 1750s and as wide as 2350s and much stronger. I could only imagine how much they flex wheels in corners. The super stiff tracking Enve rims would take a while to get used to for these two 200lb ultra fast riders. It could even effect tire pressures!
They would get 3 runs out a 1750 rim, and now they get more like 2 weeks/races out of an Enve rim.
Syndicate gets custom heavier duty AM rims, i can't really imagine enough DHers will buy DH rims, but who knows, maybe they'll make em.
Enve is in the middle of redesigning the AM rims to make them UST.
Enve wheels are $2300 but that's with $600 worth of King hubs, $100 in spokes. That makes the rims about $800, which i believe is correct. And a 2 year warranty, and a 50% off crash replacement for 5 years
Pro level MX bikes are $50-70,000. And we can't even buy em if we wanted to! It does blow me away that their rims are so simple, but part of it comes down to wall thickness. They have to be so thick so that they don't crack by the spoke that a double wall kind of won't make any sense, since the rims hold up OK for them right now anyway.
I would go for carbon rims for AM use for sure if you can blow the dough, but unless you're a world cup contender i can't see it making sense for DH.
The Reynolds AM wheels i've been testing are pretty interesting. They're using a UST inner rim profile (with tape to seal up the spoke holes) and 1500g for a wheelset. They're shooting for $1600 with their own hubs (light, cheap, taiwanese). You have to buy a warranty though. saving 400g on a wheelset makes a huge difference. The rims aren't 200g lighter each over my Flows, but you can get away with 28 superlight spokes and alloy nips since the rims are sooo stiff. They do ride smoother, and when you hit em on a rock it sounds like hitting a PVC pipe on the ground which is quieter and feels softer than hitting an aluminum rim on a rock.
Reynolds blew out the old XC wheels, hidden nips, aero roadie lookin, and no UST.
The Easton rims are realy cool. They are UST and use a threaded insert kind of like mavic Deemax's so the rim is airtight without tape. 2yr no questions asked replacement. Carbon armoring with a plastic that's infused on the surface.
Minnaar and Peaty used to go back and forth between DT 1750 white wheels that are disposable and red 2350 wheels that are stiff and make it to the bottom. I think they allways wanted to run the 1750's byt kept having to go with 2350s especially on gnarly tracks. Now they can run Enve rims which are lighter than 1750s and as wide as 2350s and much stronger. I could only imagine how much they flex wheels in corners. The super stiff tracking Enve rims would take a while to get used to for these two 200lb ultra fast riders. It could even effect tire pressures!
They would get 3 runs out a 1750 rim, and now they get more like 2 weeks/races out of an Enve rim.
Syndicate gets custom heavier duty AM rims, i can't really imagine enough DHers will buy DH rims, but who knows, maybe they'll make em.
Enve is in the middle of redesigning the AM rims to make them UST.
Enve wheels are $2300 but that's with $600 worth of King hubs, $100 in spokes. That makes the rims about $800, which i believe is correct. And a 2 year warranty, and a 50% off crash replacement for 5 years
Pro level MX bikes are $50-70,000. And we can't even buy em if we wanted to! It does blow me away that their rims are so simple, but part of it comes down to wall thickness. They have to be so thick so that they don't crack by the spoke that a double wall kind of won't make any sense, since the rims hold up OK for them right now anyway.
I would go for carbon rims for AM use for sure if you can blow the dough, but unless you're a world cup contender i can't see it making sense for DH.
A fine post, and one that makes a hell of a lot of sense.
Theres no doubt that carbon rims are the future, but right now, not so sensible.
Theres no doubt that carbon rims are the future, but right now, not so sensible.
you have to buy a warranty??
so they sell a product that, it fails, youre screwed unless you bought a warranty??
why arent more people kicking the doors down to buy these?
Yeah, i, um, mentioned that to them..
If you're a 120lb roadie you might not need a warranty thus saving a couple hundred bucks.
edit- you can buy into a crash replacement program type of deal, i'm sure there's still a "warranty".
worst idea evaar
Like Mavic MP3?
How much is the warranty? If it's a "no questions asked" warranty I don't see a problem with them offering it, as long as you get a more typical warranty against defects if you opt out.
thats just a extended warranty. their rims still have a warranty no? i dont know the price of their MP3 program, but unless its insanely priced, i could be worth it
krispy's original comment made it seem like there is zero warranty unless you buy it.
Another reason to go with the Haven's. Knowing what Cost on both products are, you can get the entire Easton Haven wheelset (with 2 year warranty) for less than it would cost you to buy 2 ENVE rims.
They cant be that much stiffer than 823s which are insanely stiff and the ust bead works on them great.
I have identical wheels w/king on 823 and King on Edge XC rims.
I'd say that the edge wheels are about 20% stiffer.
They are stiff enough that when I first started riding them I was high-siding corners consistently because I was used to the flex of traditional wheels.
i love the accurate e-measurements on stiffness on wheels 
Let's get something straight here- when i was talking about buying a warranty i was talking about Reynolds not Enve!
Mavic's MP3 program is 7% of the wheelset's price, and is unconditional. If you bought $1000 Deemax and you didn't pay the $70 you're crazy!
Mavic probably has a rim warranty but good luck warrantying an aluminum rim that's more than a month old. It's not going to crack right away and dents or most any other damage wouldn't be covered anyway!!!!
Mavic's MP3 program is 7% of the wheelset's price, and is unconditional. If you bought $1000 Deemax and you didn't pay the $70 you're crazy!
Mavic probably has a rim warranty but good luck warrantying an aluminum rim that's more than a month old. It's not going to crack right away and dents or most any other damage wouldn't be covered anyway!!!!
so whats the UoM for rim stiffness? Newtons? Joules? Pascals? inch-lbs? sthenes? dynes? horsepower? btus?
Yawz.so whats the UoM for rim stiffness? Newtons? Joules? Pascals? inch-lbs? sthenes? dynes? horsepower? btus?
You can get roughly 20% moar Yawz from carbon rims versus Aluminum.