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Even the NYT has to admit it....

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,964
34
N8 said:
NYT PAGE ONE TOMORROW:

'By most measures, the economy appears to be doing just fine, no scratch that, it is doing great.
Tell that to GM employees.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,844
11
So Cal
N8 said:
No one feels sad for GM employees. I mean paying a guy $55+/hr to put on 5 lug nuts? Naaaahh...
In my current position I will never ever make 55.00 an hour.

Of course that's the reason I am trying to get out of my current position.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,964
34
N8 said:
No one feels sad for GM employees.
Spoken like a true capitalist.

How much do you pay your employees? Benefits? (you have a construction biz, right?)

Or is it all just day-laborers?
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,964
34
H8R said:
Spoken like a true capitalist.

How much do you pay your employees? Benefits? (you have a construction biz, right?)

Or is it all just day-laborers?

Wait, what am I doing asking N8 a question - he'll NEVER come back into this thread now!
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
Funny how the Dow was at 10,588 on January 19, 2001.

Going by that number, in the last 5 years Bush has managed to grow the economy by less than 3% with a huge explosion in government spending and massive deficits.

Not so good...
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,964
34
Andyman_1970 said:
Now you've done it...........shame on you for trying to engage N8 in a meaningful discussion..........you should know better.:nope:
I know. He only posted this thread to lighten our day with "good news".

:rolleyes:
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
85
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Silver said:
Funny how the Dow was at 10,588 on January 19, 2001.

Going by that number, in the last 5 years Bush has managed to grow the economy by less than 3% with a huge explosion in government spending and massive deficits.

Not so good...
In fairness...I think the imaginary economics of the late 90's/early 2000's dot-commory....dot-communism...whatever you want to call that silliness. .... pretty much nullifies the dow being at that level.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
H8R said:
Spoken like a true capitalist.

How much do you pay your employees? Benefits? (you have a construction biz, right?)

Or is it all just day-laborers?

I don't have employees, only subcontractors who bid their work in the free market.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
MMike said:
In fairness...I think the imaginary economics of the late 90's/early 2000's dot-commory....dot-communism...whatever you want to call that silliness. .... pretty much nullifies the dow being at that level.
Dead on.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
MMike said:
In fairness...I think the imaginary economics of the late 90's/early 2000's dot-commory....dot-communism...whatever you want to call that silliness. .... pretty much nullifies the dow being at that level.
The Dow was already recovering. It peaked at 11,700 or so, and then took a nosedive into the 8000s.

What do you think is driving consumer spending these days? It isn't sound financial planning. It's a total lack of savings and huge amounts of debt. Which makes the last 5 years an even larger cluster**** economically speaking.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,890
4
Hypernormality
Silver said:
The Dow was already recovering. It peaked at 11,700 or so, and then took a nosedive into the 8000s.

What do you think is driving consumer spending these days? It isn't sound financial planning. It's a total lack of savings and huge amounts of debt. Which makes the last 5 years an even larger cluster**** economically speaking.
Silver is totally right about consumer debt. It could be, nay is likely to be, a huge problem in the medium* future, as is government debt. The UK is facing the same issue, pretty much.

*American medium = Japanese short.
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
MMike said:
In fairness...I think the imaginary economics of the late 90's/early 2000's dot-commory....dot-communism...whatever you want to call that silliness. .... pretty much nullifies the dow being at that level.
I dont like george and I didnt like bill, but its all bullsh*t, neither of em have done dixx for us and thats the truth. I mean seriously, the whole country didn't become corrupt the day george became pres. Im sure books were getting cooked long before george took over. Slick willie ran huge unjustified surplus's and george wound up with his sloppy seconds and the deficit. KId yourself all you want there both phaq ups. No one knows how to run this country. Honestly I dont think it can be done. If history shows us anything its that sooner or later someones gonna come along to steal our crown. Just another great empire goin down in flames if you ask me

Dont blame me I voted for fishman
 

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,344
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
The Amish said:
I dont like george and I didnt like bill, but its all bullsh*t, neither of em have done dixx for us and thats the truth. I mean seriously, the whole country didn't become corrupt the day george became pres. Im sure books were getting cooked long before george took over. Slick willie ran huge unjustified surplus's and george wound up with his sloppy seconds and the deficit. KId yourself all you want there both phaq ups. No one knows how to run this country. Honestly I dont think it can be done. If history shows us anything its that sooner or later someones gonna come along to steal our crown. Just another great empire goin down in flames if you ask me

Dont blame me I voted for fishman
who?5
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
Changleen said:
Silver is totally right about consumer debt. It could be, nay is likely to be, a huge problem in the medium* future, as is government debt. The UK is facing the same issue, pretty much.

*American medium = Japanese short.
probably not medium... with the explosion in bancruptcy filings before the Oct.17 deadline.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,672
0
Feeling the lag
LordOpie said:
probably not medium... with the explosion in bancruptcy filings before the Oct.17 deadline.
But in true N8 style let us look at the bright side...

lots of cheap assets for rich people to buy...
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
yeah, but lots of it will be credit card bancruptcy's, so in this case, the richers are getting screwed, ok, only very little.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,672
0
Feeling the lag
LordOpie said:
yeah, but lots of it will be credit card bancruptcy's, so in this case, the richers are getting screwed, ok, only very little.
Has The Amish hijacked your account? That sentence is only a step above gibberish.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
The Amish said:
Slick willie ran huge unjustified surplus's and george wound up with his sloppy seconds and the deficit.
I want you to think real hard about that statement. When you're done, think harder.

Look up "surplus," then look up "deficit."

Ask yourself, "what is the difference between these two?"

Think about it in terms of your own checking account if that helps.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,564
2,246
In my pants
LordOpie said:
You guys actually read his posts?
Come on. The ARE pretty entertaining. I think of him as the logical replacement for ridetoofast.

I was just about to point out the same thing ohio did. I mean really.......okay it's worth repeating.

Slick willie ran huge unjustified surplus's
Oh the horror!!!

Come on......point and laugh.....it's fun!!
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
kidwoo said:
Come on......point and laugh.....it's fun!!
yes, LOL

I usually let most people's comments slide when it comes to economics cuz it's not an easily field to discuss without significant education. But yeah, it's funny :)
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
It's also funny because while you can make a case that a huge budget surplus means that tax rates are too high, Clinton (with the help of a hostile congress) only managed to get there a couple of years. Plus, when your outstanding debt was close to $6 trillion, a $100-200B surplus isn't exactly free money.

And it sure can turn around quick, can't it?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
Silver said:
It's also funny because while you can make a case that a huge budget surplus means that tax rates are too high...
see, I'm of the thought that you should run a surplus in a boom and deficit in a recession... ideally, it all evens out and the recessions aren't so bad or so long. Plus, it helps prevent big bubbles.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
Speaking of budget...........this is religion and politics mixing I can get on board with:

(from www.sojo.net)


Come to Washington to pray for a moral budget
by Jim Wallis

"Woe to you legislators of infamous laws...who refuse justice to the unfortunate, who cheat the poor among my people of their rights, who make widows their prey and rob the orphan" (Isaiah 10:1-2, Jerusalem Bible). [wow, how many self professed Christian republicans have read that???]

There are moments in every generation when a society must decide on its real moral principles. This is one of those moments in history: When our legislators put ideology over principle, it is time to sound the trumpets of justice and tell the truth.

In the early hours of the morning before leaving for their Thanksgiving break, the House of Representatives passed a budget bill that cuts $50 billion, including essential services for low-income families. Funding for health care, food stamps, foster care for neglected children, student loans, enforcing child support orders - all fell to the ax. If the House bill prevails, more than 200,000 people will lose food stamps, people already struggling to make ends meet will have to pay more for health care, and low-income students will find it harder to pay for college loans. When they return, the House also plans to pass a tax cut bill benefiting the wealthiest people in America.

Let's be clear. It is a moral disgrace to take food from the mouths of hungry children to increase the luxuries of those feasting at a table overflowing with plenty. There is no moral path our legislators can take to defend a reckless, mean-spirited budget bill that diminishes our compassion. It is dishonest to stake proud claims to deficit reduction when tax cuts for the wealthy that increase the deficit are the next order of business. It is one more example of an absence of morality in our political leadership. "Oppressing the poor in order to enrich oneself, and giving to the rich, will lead only to loss" (Proverbs 22:16). [Hello.........are those Christian Repub's listening??]

The religious community has already helped influence the Senate - its version of the budget cut about $35 billion, with virtually no cuts in services to low-income people. The decision to protect low-income families in the Senate was a bipartisan decision - supported by both Republicans and Democrats. The House decision to sacrifice the poor was a victory of the extreme Republican leadership over all the Democrats and moderate Republicans who voted against the harsh and punitive House bill. Congress now faces a stark choice that requires moral clarity and outrage. The differences between the House and Senate bills have to be resolved in a joint conference committee, and the result brought back to each body for a final vote in mid-December. The convictions of the religious community must be brought to bear in these next few weeks - a final bill containing the House cuts that are an assault on poor families and children must not be passed. Budgets are moral documents that reflect our priorities. The choice to cut supports that help people make it day to day in order to pay for tax cuts for those with plenty goes against everything our religious and moral principles teach us. It is a blatant reversal of biblical values. It's time to act.
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,622
2
G14 Classified
Andyman_1970 said:
many words
A year ago, Silver (I think) wrote, "Religion is the lube politicians use to keep the general public from realizing they're getting f***ed." I completely disagreed with it a year ago, but I'm starting to think that there's an element of truth to it. The Republican Party has done a great job of positioning itself as God's Party, but the passage of the latest cuts is just another example that claims otherwise. Now, looking at this as the exception rather than the rule, do you think there is any truth to the above quote?
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
I hate to say it but I think the Repub's have used the conservative Christians to their gain, and influenced them that they are "acceptable" (from a Christian perspective that is)........which Biblically I am coming to the conclusion I cannot accept.

One of the major themes of the Torah commandments is that the rich don't get richer while the poor get poorer (the whole jubilee year deal, in which debts are canceled).......but how many "Bible believing" republican Christians buy into the whole........it's ok to "help the rich they provide jobs for the poor" line of bull.

Anyway........I'm finding myself more at odds with the repubs, and as a result find myself at odds with many of the people I go to church with...........
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
Andyman_1970 said:
I hate to say it but I think the Repub's have used the conservative Christians to their gain, and influenced them that they are "acceptable" (from a Christian perspective that is)........which Biblically I am coming to the conclusion I cannot accept.

One of the major themes of the Torah commandments is that the rich don't get richer while the poor get poorer (the whole jubilee year deal, in which debts are canceled).......but how many "Bible believing" republican Christians buy into the whole........it's ok to "help the rich they provide jobs for the poor" line of bull.

Anyway........I'm finding myself more at odds with the repubs, and as a result find myself at odds with many of the people I go to church with...........

Harumph!

And you call yourself a southern baptist!!?

:nope: