really? Seriously?
EXACTLY how as I out of order?
I asked him to share his opinion.
Come on, answer up.
Ever Feel Like Killing Someone...
- Thread starter H8R
- Start date
EXACTLY how as I out of order?
I asked him to share his opinion.
Come on, answer up.
Oops - upon checking the thread it seems you weren't a grammar nazi after all, you simply triggered his paranoia. So I 'umbly apologise to you.
You're still a bit odd though...
Yeah, I didn't think he was out of order at all...it's what I thought about Bohorec's chart as well...I just don't think he needs to be embarrassed about his English skills.
Ed: oh, simultaneous post...I expected this to be right under Opie's post...
Ed: oh, simultaneous post...I expected this to be right under Opie's post...
I must say you're a sensitive bunch these days, I remember the days when a chap took insults as the norm in this forum. You young bucks don't know how good you've got it.
Actually no. The reason is that DNA evidence could be tampered with. Furthermore it is not the infallible holy grail of evidence that many take it to be.
The problem I have with the death sentence is that so long as it exists there is no way to be 100% certain that you will not execute an innocent person (ie. not the one who committed the crime - whether they've committed a different crime is irrelevant).
Something on your mind?
Not exactly but you reminded me of an event in my life. Just over ten years ago I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was arrested for criminal damage. After being finger-printed, photographed and questioned I spent a night in the cells. My only option to avoid prosecution (and probable conviction even though I was innocent of the charge) was to offer to pay for the damage to be be made good.
An expensive and sobering night that made me think pretty hard about how much doubt is reasonable.
too true.
thanks, well I'll try to explain why I think chart is relevant in this topic...
Chart:
First of all I'm sorry if you've found my link and graph vague, but I still think that both of them are very clear and support my opinion much better than "smoke weed" vs "hang'em high" statements.
I think it's great that chart shows that crime is declining faster without DP but it's also sad that people are still talking how number of murders is increasing and that some would start "kill frenzy" rampage if death penalty is banned.
Link:
The link I provided interpretates datas in anti-DP manner. So if anyone disagree with the interpretation and can explain it, welcome.
It also contains more interesting datas especially the gap graph and the comparison between neighboring death penalty states and non-death penalty states, so we can assume that murderers actually go to vacation to death-penalty states (sarc.).
Opinions:
I think that we should operate with facts since they should be very fundations for our opinions unlike emotions or even worse others opinions. If anyone can offer an actual proof that DP works better I might even change my opinion.
I disagree completely. Even if the DP was an effective deterent and proven as such, I still would not want the state killing in my name.
Facts are not the end all and be all of such discussions. Emotions are just as important.
But thank you for clarifying your ambiguous position.
Bohorec, your chart does nothing to support your conclusions. To prevent myself from writing nine paragraphs and saying little, I'm simply going to repeat the PAWN maxim:correlation does not equal causation.
I doubt that such proof exists, so my opinion remains solid.
Well the war on drugs is driven by emotions and you can see the results. IMO death penalty debate is NO place for emotions.
Why not?
Weren't all these flawed thoughts based on *facts* as known at the time...
Didn't Rene Descartes (1600s) say something along the lines that since animals didn't have souls, it didn't matter how you treated them?
Weren't blacks known to be a lesser species than whites, so slavery was ok?
Women were inferior and subjugated as such.
The fact was, the Earth was flat, so Gallileo was an outcast.
All sorts of "facts" have been known through history, but it was intuition, emotions, compassion that righted those wrongs.
the DP is an emotional issue and to remove emotions from it and similar issues would lead society down a scary path.
IMO facts and religion don't go along. I see much more emotions in your examples than facts. I'll only comment Galileo; I think that dispute was about what motions around what, sun or earth, Galileo's opinion was supported with facts and church opinion was called dogma and it was supported with fear. It was scientist with facts that has crippled the church power later not emotions.
One man's facts are another's opinions... and they both evolve over time.
Facts are at the mercy of the observer and interpreter.
For example, I think the facts you linked to are completely worthless... correlation does not equal causation.
So, when facts are flawed, the only thing we have to go on is emotion and what we feel is right or wrong.
There is no need for the death penalty.
Facts are at the mercy of the observer and interpreter.
For example, I think the facts you linked to are completely worthless... correlation does not equal causation.
So, when facts are flawed, the only thing we have to go on is emotion and what we feel is right or wrong.
There is no need for the death penalty.
Mistakenly interpreting a fact as a non-fact does not change the fact that that fact is, in fact, a fact.
In some cases tho, facts can be useless. Maybe the states with the death penalty's crime rates would be even higher if they didn't have it. Then again maybe they wouldn't. No way to tell; too many variables.
In some cases tho, facts can be useless. Maybe the states with the death penalty's crime rates would be even higher if they didn't have it. Then again maybe they wouldn't. No way to tell; too many variables.
Thank you, Vizzini...
What's worse? Killing an innocent person or letting them rot in a cell for what could be years of the rest of there life. Whether death penalty or not, there is still some form of human torture to what could be an innocent person. This is a more difficult decision than I once thought. I would hate to have to make a decision like that,
deciding the fate of an innocent person that is.
Pardon me if I'm off topic or repeating something that was already mentioned, I didn't read the whole thread. I shall be Penanced!!!
deciding the fate of an innocent person that is.
Pardon me if I'm off topic or repeating something that was already mentioned, I didn't read the whole thread. I shall be Penanced!!!