[Santa Maria]

After two seasons on my trusty sunday it is time for a change. My new bike will either be a Revolt or the makulu.

Has anybody of you ridden both of them as well as a sunday? What are the main differences?

Any Feedback is highly appreciated - Thanx, Santa



By the way, if any of the euro monkeys are interested in buying a 07 golden Sunday frame at the end of June, PM me

 

[captainspauldin]

Dude, there's massive thread on the Revolt on this page.. read all the posts by davetrump, he had a sunday and now is riding the revolt. Sounds like he loves it(he might chime in over here)

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217165&page=14 -read up..

Quick summary..

more accurately.... since everyone keeps asking how it differs from the sunday (the last collaboration of DW/Seplavy and Co.)

it is slacker, adjustable, progressive, and doesn't blow through the travel as easy.

i would like to think that 5 years after the sunday came out I could jump on something new and find some good improvements.

tracks and riding has progressed in those years, and thankfully so have bikes.

but if you want to be a hater... be a hater.

PS... I have ridden a few other new frames I could say similar things about (not just the evil)... but this thread is not about those bikes now is it

so just add evil to the list of current DH frames that are at the head of the pack... and thankfully these days that list is growing so there lots of good bikes to choose from.

anyone who has ridden DH as long as some of us can remember when you really only had 2 or 3 choices... now there are many.

more...

after 2 days of riding at diablo I am hooked on this thing...

we hit up just about every trail, launched all the new jumps/drops, smashed rock gardens the wrong way on purpose and just tried to throw everything at the bike to see how it behaved and get it dialed in.

I ran it with 13.75 BB and a head angle of 63 (or slightly less)... i weigh 155 to 160 and ran the bike with a VIVD/300 lb spring and a 2010 boxxer team with the stock springs (160-180 lb rider).

bike is silent, smooth, and solid... loved the slack angles though some might prefer another setup which on this bike is easy to change.

compared to a sunday... for me the geometry is improved, the progressive ending stroke feels bottomless, and whatever DW did to the suspension in the mid stroke is pretty amazing. bike rides higher in its travel than a sunday (with same shock) so it is soooo easy to get off the ground and pop over stuff. ending stroke feels like it has more travel to spare.

it was pretty hard to get the back end to spike and in most cases the back was so smooth in some rock sections it felt like you were accelerating... in other words the rear wheel does not get "hung up" on the big hits.

I loved the Sunday, and this bike builds on that... progressive end stroke, slack angles, and no hanging up on biq hits and square edge stuff.

S.K.C. took mine for a hot lap so I am sure he can throw his 2 cents in as well.

Evil and DW nailed it

***edit: 2010 boxxers stick to the ground like glue. so much so that it took a while to readjust my riding style to "pop" the front end off roots and rocks (give a little tug rather than letting the fork kick back, because it won't). it stays planted on the trail and is STIFF

 

[Santa Maria]

Dude, there's massive thread on the Revolt on this page.. read all the posts by davetrump, he had a sunday and now is riding the revolt. Sounds like he loves it(he might chime in over here)

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217165&page=14 -read up..

Quick summary..

Yeah i know, but there is also a (smaller) thread on the mkakulu with very positive feedback. I am interested if someone had a chance to ride both of them and wants to share his impressions

thanks for the summary anyway

 

[supercow]

I ride a Makulu - it's Phenomenal.
Funnily enough, if I really had to choose another bike and was not allowed to have a Makulu again, it would be the Revolt.

I have absolutely no reason for this, apart from - it just looks like it would suit me.
I'd like to think that I have always chosen my bikes very well, going on gut-feel

Yeah i know, but there is also a (smaller) thread on the mkakulu with very positive feedback. I am interested if someone had a chance to ride both of them and wants to share his impressions

thanks for the summary anyway

I very very very much doubt many people would have ridden both the Revolt and Makulu - given only a handful have ridden the makulu

 

[Santa Maria]

I ride a Makulu - it's Phenomenal.
Funnily enough, if I really had to choose another bike and was not allowed to have a Makulu again, it would be the Revolt.

I have absolutely no reason for this, apart from - it just looks like it would suit me.
I'd like to think that I have always chosen my bikes very well, going on gut-feel



I very very very much doubt many people would have ridden both the Revolt and Makulu - given only a handful have ridden the makulu

could be, but why no try it....

What did you ride before the makulu?

 

[General Lee]

Very few people have ridden either of these bike (or even seen them in person), not likely you will find anyone who has properly evaluated both. owning a Revolt and hopping on a Makulu set up for someone else isn't really a fair comparison. I did ride a Sunday for the past 2 years and loved it, but the Evil feels like an improvement in terms of geometry and suspension.

All things being equal I'd give the advantage to the revolt simply for its adjustability. but that's a personal preferance and i'm obviously biased

Honestly, do your best to cruch the numbers in terms of geometry and figure out which one you think would fit best. at the end of the day that's what matters way more than weight, suspension, etc.

 

[Santa Maria]

Very few people have ridden either of these bike (or even seen them in person), not likely you will find anyone who has properly evaluated both. owning a Revolt and hopping on a Makulu set up for someone else isn't really a fair comparison. I did ride a Sunday for the past 2 years and loved it, but the Evil feels like an improvement in terms of geometry and suspension.

All things being equal I'd give the advantage to the revolt simply for its adjustability. but that's a personal preferance and i'm obviously biased

Honestly, do your best to cruch the numbers in terms of geometry and figure out which one you think would fit best. at the end of the day that's what matters way more than weight, suspension, etc.

yeah, you are right. the geo of the sunday is spot on for me. I don't need it slacker or lower than on the sunday but i always felt that the sunday is not as stable as other bikes at higher speeds - so at the moment i am more into the makulu......

 

[FCLinder]

I have to say I like the Makulu. I have been on Gerrit's a few times now and he has it setup way to stiff for my liking, but can say it felt spot on for me with the GEO. I have never been on a Revolt, but will say I would like to try one out sometime down the road. If you have a in with Morewood then work with them. They are great people and will take great care of you in the long run.

Good luck,
Cecil

 

[Sandwich]

Keep in mind the level of service that you receive from evil/todd/dw/RM. The Sunday thread is over 9000 pages long, I'm willing to bet you'll find a revolt thread in the near future with tuning options, tips, and all that.

Now that the same guys who provided the service are supporting bikes from a better company, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better choice, unless it comes down purely to geometry or suspension or something.

I'm not a huge fan of the pivot location on the Revolt, but to support that company and have them support you is a win-win, and has me reconsidering the frame for the future.

 

[ska todd]

A lot of the "stability" above could be any combo of HTA, BB height, wheelbase, or suspension settings. The goal on the Revolt was to make a bike that riders can tune to suit their courses, ride styles, or abilities. We're seeing this ring true just among friends and riders we know. I am riding my bike with "slack" flipchips but "steep" HTA. Other guys are steep/steep, others are slack/slack.

In general, to echo what Lee has said, the bike does ride higher in the travel than a Sunday but doesn't give up small bump sensitivity and also is a bit more progressive in the end stroke than a Sunday. You can fiddle w/ other geometry w/o affecting those traits, which in my opinion makes the bike into a weapon for the right riders.

-ska todd

 

[LOOnatic]

Keep in mind the level of service that you receive from evil/todd/dw/RM.

Now that the same guys who provided the service are supporting bikes from a better company, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better choice,

Not to take anything away from those guys but for the record customer service and support is super high end from Richard at MooreWood . Its a win/win with either frame purchase IMO. Both are really desirable .

 

[JCL]

I would imagine the suspension performance of both bikes would be about as good as it gets. The adjustability of the Revolt is very clever though and would seal the deal if you want specific geometry. I'm pretty much sold on the Revolt but I'm waiting to see if Todd modifies the useless cable routing (sorry Todd ).

 

[davet]

I would imagine the suspension performance of both bikes would be about as good as it gets. The adjustability of the Revolt is very clever though and would seal the deal if you want specific geometry. I'm pretty much sold on the Revolt but I'm waiting to see if Todd modifies the useless cable routing (sorry Todd ).

I heard tell at a local event a couple of weeks ago of a Revolt that was constantly coming loose at the shock link, regardless of locktite and extreme tightening.

 

[Dogboy]

I heard tell at a local event a couple of weeks ago of a Revolt that was constantly coming loose at the shock link, regardless of locktite and extreme tightening.

What is the "shock link" exactly?

 

[JCL]

I heard tell at a local event a couple of weeks ago of a Revolt that was constantly coming loose at the shock link, regardless of locktite and extreme tightening.

Yeah I heard. A friend who owns a Revolt had a Flip Chip fall out on a ride the other day. It's a new and very advanced design that's bound to have a few initial problems IMO.

I still think it's THE bike at the moment.

 

[General Lee]

I would imagine the suspension performance of both bikes would be about as good as it gets. The adjustability of the Revolt is very clever though and would seal the deal if you want specific geometry. I'm pretty much sold on the Revolt but I'm waiting to see if Todd modifies the useless cable routing (sorry Todd ).

Curious to hear your logic on this one. If you cut your cables/brake lines to the length that they run along the lower crown (so you don't need to cut your # plate because the line can run under it freely) then they line up perfectly with the cable guides. then they run nicely under the shock linkage and down the top of the chainstays. Perfect.

take a peak at some of the recent wc racing photos, and pay attention to where the mechanics run the brake/shift lines. most of them look this, it keeps everything nice and tidy and allows # plates to be attached/removed easily and w/ out modification. and this was designed as a race bike afterall . . .

 

[davet]

What is the "shock link" exactly?

the link that drives the shock?

 

[JCL]

Curious to hear your logic on this one. If you cut your cables/brake lines to the length that they run along the lower crown (so you don't need to cut your # plate because the line can run under it freely) then they line up perfectly with the cable guides. then they run nicely under the shock linkage and down the top of the chainstays. Perfect.

I'm not saying it isn't functional just that it could be better IMO. I think if the downtube guides were on the triangulated sloping section of the downtube and closer to the link it might prevent a lot of rub on the underside of the link. The worst thing for me though is how close the upper guide is to the toptube/downtube weld. Oddly it doesn't look too close to yours but on the frames I've seen the upper of the two guides was pretty much useless.

 

[General Lee]

I'm not saying it isn't functional just that it could be better IMO. I think if the downtube guides were on the triangulated sloping section of the downtube and closer to the link it might prevent a lot of rub on the underside of the link. The worst thing for me though is how close the upper guide is to the toptube/downtube weld. Oddly it doesn't look too close to yours but on the frames I've seen the upper of the two guides was pretty much useless.

the frame in that picture is identical to mine, including where the cable guides are attached. Not sure why you bring up rubbing on the underside of the link, because as they are right now none of my lines touches the link and when the shock compresses the link moves up and away from them; in other words they don't rub. a far as the upper guide being useless, take a look at mine again: i have the lines routed on opposite sides of the headtube rather than both on the same side like the Sunday was. As a result that 'useless' upper guide is really quite functional.

maybe have a look at someone's bike that is set up with at least some degree of attention to detail before you decide there's something wrong?

I'm at a whole new level of amazement with ridemonkey today: Between riders who can't figure out how to lube a dust wiper, 'mechanics' who still don't know how to take a boxxer damper out 10 years on, and the apparent riddle of cable routing I'm pretty much out of anything constructive to say . . . .

 

[davet]

I'm at a whole new level of amazement with ridemonkey today: Between riders who can't figure out how to lube a dust wiper, 'mechanics' who still don't know how to take a boxxer damper out 10 years on, and the apparent riddle of cable routing I'm pretty much out of anything constructive to say . . . .

but the condescension is pretty consistent though.


Anyways, I'm liking the Revolt. If everything goes well for it this year there just might be one in my garage next year.

 

[JCL]

the frame in that picture is identical to mine, including where the cable guides are attached. Not sure why you bring up rubbing on the underside of the link, because as they are right now none of my lines touches the link and when the shock compresses the link moves up and away from them; in other words they don't rub. a far as the upper guide being useless, take a look at mine again: i have the lines routed on opposite sides of the headtube rather than both on the same side like the Sunday was. As a result that 'useless' upper guide is really quite functional.

maybe have a look at someone's bike that is set up with at least some degree of attention to detail before you decide there's something wrong?

I'm at a whole new level of amazement with ridemonkey today: Between riders who can't figure out how to lube a dust wiper, 'mechanics' who still don't know how to take a boxxer damper out 10 years on, and the apparent riddle of cable routing I'm pretty much out of anything constructive to say . . . .

Yes it's a tough life isn't it ?

It's obvious that the way you have the routing is the most logical if not the only option. The frame in the pic I posted must have the top guide in a slightly different position to yours (or the top/down tube weld is closer) as the upper of the two guides was just about 'useless'.

 

[chober]

Don't have a revolt......but I got this!

 

[Santa Maria]

Thanx guys for all the feedback and pics until know and keep it going

By the way: A big Thank You to Todd (from Evil) and Richard (from Morewood) for answering all my mails and pms - you guys rock!

Whereever i might end up, i will let you know!

 

[chuckie]

dude...i have just come off a Sunday to a Makulu. The thing feels like it has so much more grip than the Sunday but mine is running a BOS rear shock. If you are concerned about if you are going to a better bike than the answer is definately yes!! Mine built up with saints cranks, 08 Boxxer WC's, MTX 33's was around 17.8 kilos

 

[Santa Maria]

dude...i have just come off a Sunday to a Makulu. The thing feels like it has so much more grip than the Sunday but mine is running a BOS rear shock. If you are concerned about if you are going to a better bike than the answer is definately yes!! Mine built up with saints cranks, 08 Boxxer WC's, MTX 33's was around 17.8 kilos

chuckie, and how does she corner compared to the sunday???

 

[General Lee]

The frame in the pic I posted must have the top guide in a slightly different position to yours (or the top/down tube weld is closer) as the upper of the two guides was just about 'useless'.

Pictures please, maybe of the frame built and the cables routed? because it looks identical to me. I can't fit my thumb between the upper guide and the top/downtube weld and my first impression was the same as yours, that it was way too tight a fit. turned out to be just fine.

You'll have to forgive me, but this is the internet where everything seems to be deemed 'useless' all too quickly.

 

[IH8Rice]

what headset are you using w/ your 1 1/8" fork?
i have the Hope reducing headset, but the bottom cups sticks pretty far down under the headtube.

 

[davetrump]

Thanx guys for all the feedback and pics until know and keep it going

By the way: A big Thank You to Todd (from Evil) and Richard (from Morewood) for answering all my mails and pms - you guys rock!

Whereever i might end up, i will let you know!

regardless i think you will be pumped...

there are so many rad bikes out there today and it really is impossible to compare all the top shelf.... honestly the deal breaker for me would be availability and price (not sure what either goes for in europe), followed by customer service (whick in the case of Evil/Morewood you would be set).

 

[davetrump]

what headset are you using w/ your 1 1/8" fork?
i have the Hope reducing headset, but the bottom cups sticks pretty far down under the headtube.

he has headsetthat came stock from a sunday, and I have a hope... both have the same profile, and only the fork race is visible. the Hope is just a bearing pressed into e13 cups and a fork race.

I think that is all hidden when seen at an angle due to size of headtube.

edit: not sure if we are talking about same Hope headset... Lee and I both used e13 reducer cups and installed zero stack headsets into them (same setup as a sunday). mine is made by hope his is FSA i believe

 

[IH8Rice]

edit: not sure if we are talking about same Hope headset... Lee and I both used e13 reducer cups and installed zero stack headsets into them (same setup as a sunday). mine is made by hope his is FSA i believe

yeah i was going to say, my reducing size Hope headset has a pretty long bottom cup.
ill just stick with what i have. 15mm cant make that much of a difference right?

 

[davetrump]

yeah i was going to say, my reducing size Hope headset has a pretty long bottom cup.
ill just stick with what i have. 15mm cant make that much of a difference right?

nope... if anything you might want to keep the head tube set in the "steep" position

i believe the measurements Evil quotes are based off using reducer cups, but i am not sure.

mine has head angle of 63 (or just under) and BB of 13.75

you would probably end up with a change of 1 degree or less and maybe 1/4" at the BB... but honestly a lower headset cup will have such minimal effect of geometry that it is a moot point (especially on an adjustable bike like revolt)

The biggest reason for running internal headset is to keep bar height down. it is a big difference when you remove the top and bottom cup from this.

 

[slowitdown]

You'll have to forgive me, but this is the internet where everything seems to be deemed 'useless' all too quickly.

or looks flexy or BB is too high or bad pivot placement

hey if we're lucky we'll avoid the discussions of mid-stroke wallow and "bob" when going over rough terrain.

...okay, back to Revolt cable routing non-problems.:biggrin:

 

[davetrump]

or looks flexy or BB is too high or bad pivot placement

hey if we're lucky we'll avoid the discussions of mid-stroke wallow and "bob" when going over rough terrain.

...okay, back to Revolt cable routing non-problems.:biggrin:

i was actually pissed that one of the color options in the sticker kit wasn't root beer.

 

[chuckie]

chuckie, and how does she corner compared to the sunday???

You wont believe this...but I think it corners better!! The thing has just got so much traction too which helps, as mentioned this could be because of the BOS, but other than that everything else was off my Sunday

 

[Jason4]

i was actually pissed that one of the color options in the sticker kit wasn't root beer.

Would you be jealous if I told you that my Audi is root beer?

 

[Santa Maria]

I have just ordered a Makulu - pics when in get it!!!

 

[Spokompton]

Anyone else think the revolt looks janky in person? Looks way better in pics, which is usually the opposite for bikes.

It just feels like an engineering pretzel.

Not too impressed on the design/looks, but I'm sure it rides great.

 

[IH8Rice]

have you seen one in person?
i think its one of the best looking bikes out there. nothing on there isnt necessary. it doesnt have 12 seatstays/chainstays, it doesnt have a 16" i-t-i shock on it. its killer in person IMO

 

[Spokompton]

have you seen one in person?
i think its one of the best looking bikes out there. nothing on there isnt necessary. it doesnt have 12 seatstays/chainstays, it doesnt have a 16" i-t-i shock on it. its killer in person IMO

Yup, and still think it looks hideous.

Then again, I don't think wearing DH clown suits is cool either, so maybe my good taste is in the minority around here.

 

[IH8Rice]

fair enough. we all have our opinions and im not going to e-knock em.

dh clown suits are stupid, as is being fully "kitted out" to the T

the top tube is a drastic change than what im used to, but it does serve for the smaller riders. if it had the top tube of my RS7 then it would be pimpin