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Examples of bad trail building

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,949
9,625
AK
I've done a ton of work on one trail system and specific access/climb trails for drains and erosion control, but it's super disappointing that the local trail org never really considers this type of maint. and is only ever trying to figure out how to put in some new jumps or boards while the rest of the network goes to shit. It's not all bad on this specific one since I've been doing the work, but the other one across the city, I tried to ride that after some rain and it was just a shit show.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,821
7,295
SADL
I've done a ton of work on one trail system and specific access/climb trails for drains and erosion control, but it's super disappointing that the local trail org never really considers this type of maint. and is only ever trying to figure out how to put in some new jumps or boards while the rest of the network goes to shit. It's not all bad on this specific one since I've been doing the work, but the other one across the city, I tried to ride that after some rain and it was just a shit show.
Are we neighbors?
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,092

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,547
888
McMinnville, OR
What did they actually do? Our unmaintained trails look like this in the winter. Which is actually good, keeps the dirt roadies off them. Mud would just ruin their matchy-matchy "kit" and their aero shoe covers. :disgust1:
Yeah, same question here more or less. What did they do? That’s kinda what all “natural” trails here look like 6 months per year.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,385
19,400
Canaderp
I'm guessing they are perpetual wet spots. And that one looks like a stream crosses the trail, which I'm guessing they tossed rocks and dirt at. Also guessing that the dirt simply washed away.

On the dork logger earlier this summer, jozz posted a video of some trails looking like water falls. Maybe related?
 

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,547
888
McMinnville, OR
I'm guessing put out an instagram post a month ago showing themselves putting very moveable rocks and loose dirt in those potholes, got lots of praise for it, and then never figured out they did a shitty job :rofl:
Huh. Sounds like they work for the county, bc that is the same way they repair roads around here…
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,821
7,295
SADL
You're all over thinking this. They just threw random rocks in a gulley. No dirt or ressemblance of armoring. They tried draining mud pits but drains starts on the high side outside trail thread. And of course they left the mud in place so first rain after this useless work recloged all drains. Those people call themselves trailbuilders.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,821
7,295
SADL
On the dork logger earlier this summer, jozz posted a video of some trails looking like water falls. Maybe related?
Same trail. I had planted a trail flag at where water was rushing in the trail. Flag is still there and water still cascade onto the trail each rain. No clue I tell ya!
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
547
357
Hopefully they’re pulling it out to use it somewhere cool maybe they just make it a nice little pop feature on the side if the trail. and hopefully they going to fill the hole in so it doesn’t become a mud bog.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,670
13,010
Cackalacka du Nord
View attachment 203602




Any moron who leaves those sternum busters that close to a trail needs to be beheaded


that picture encapsulates a lot of what's wrong with volunteer trail orgs: the people with the time to do it are slow old retired fucks, not necessarily the people who know what they're doing
my favorite was when they redid lower black mountain here a while back, which is a super high speed, already kinda flowy section. they just piled the cut branches/small trees to the side of trail so you'd be impaled if you happened to wreck. plus they left stumps at the edges which were either hidden by new growth or the branches...perfect to catch a pedal on at speed and die. ask me how i know...
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,306
8,864
Crawlorado
Bermkakke

The cutoff stumps behind the first turn are a nice touch.

Honest question, is that supposed to be a handicap accessible trail?

I sure hope so, cause I see no reason why a trail on seemingly flattish ground could possibly need to be that wide or have bermed (if we can even call them that, those are WEAK) turns.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,092
Bermkakke

The cutoff stumps behind the first turn are a nice touch.

Is nobody talking about how unnecessary these berms are to begin with? Going at a speed where they can support you, your cornering knobs on the tire should hold as well on a trail w/o berm.

I totally accept dangerous trails with e.g. punjee sticks if it is some raw, scratched-in beast. On manicured marble runs like these they do not have a place.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,385
19,400
Canaderp
Honest question, is that supposed to be a handicap accessible trail?

I sure hope so, cause I see no reason why a trail on seemingly flattish ground could possibly need to be that wide or have bermed (if we can even call them that, those are WEAK) turns.
No, at least I don't think so.

The trail is in the video below, which I've ridden a bunch, its a super easy "flow" trail. I'm actually not even sure where they'd put these berms, it almost looks like its right at the very end where its super flat.

Not shown in the video (its a few years old) - the bottom 100meters of this trail, which almost looks like where these "berms" are, is two way traffic. They built a new trail for people to climb back up the hill, as people were going up the down (on the weekends this place is packed due to its ease of use and proximity to Toronto).

Can't say for sure, but it'd be a pretty poor decision (above all the others...), to put berms in on a trail with two way traffic. Kind of defeats the purpose and introduces the opportunity for conflict.
Keep an eye out for the paving blocks midway through the trail to "stop" erosion.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,385
19,400
Canaderp
I haven't ridden this trail, so this isn't a direct reflection on that, but it's so unfortunate now that some of these clubs and trail "advocacy" groups, view building a trail with a machine is the pinnacle of whatever they are trying to achieve.



It's also unfortunate that there are more and more clubs that restrict access to trails to members only. Some places look cool, but their steep registration fees are a big downer. I'd rather make a donation, to cover my few hours of ride time.
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,870
6,168
Yakistan
In WA if you charge an access fee to your land you become liable for injury. If you allow free access state law grants private property owners immunity from liability. It's lots of incentive for private property owners to play nice with us.

Country club mtb trails. You just blew my mind @canadmos - talking like theres exclusive riding spots with mandatory dues.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,384
20,175
Sleazattle
In WA if you charge an access fee to your land you become liable for injury. If you allow free access state law grants private property owners immunity from liability. It's lots of incentive for private property owners to play nice with us.

Country club mtb trails. You just blew my mind @canadmos - talking like theres exclusive riding spots with mandatory dues.
In other states liability is very different, if you require a membership you can require a waiver where anyone else is committing criminal trespass where the landowner isn't liable.
 
In WA if you charge an access fee to your land you become liable for injury. If you allow free access state law grants private property owners immunity from liability. It's lots of incentive for private property owners to play nice with us.

Country club mtb trails. You just blew my mind @canadmos - talking like theres exclusive riding spots with mandatory dues.
Vermont's the same.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
547
357
NH goes even further,if you have enough acreage and do allow free roaming on your property they tax you less for the property. So if no trespassing signs go up on a trail system near me first call is to the tax office of the town. Keeping people off a piece of property they’re not using often isn’t worth thousands of dollars a year to a nimby.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,385
19,400
Canaderp
Hmm, I don't actually know the laws here in Ontario, as far as liability. I should look into that.

But based on the fact that if one leaves ice on their walkway or porch and someone falls and injures themselves, the party responsible for maintenance of the property will be open to litigation - I'd guess its not like in Vermont or WA.

I've also noticed over the last few years, that more and more rural properties are putting up no trespassing signs. We're talking out in the bush - they'll line their property with the signs. Even though the law here states that one only needs to have one no trespassing sign, at lets say the main entrance. I think its sad to see, as it makes large portions of this province feel very off limits and gone forever.
 
Hmm, I don't actually know the laws here in Ontario, as far as liability. I should look into that.

But based on the fact that if one leaves ice on their walkway or porch and someone falls and injures themselves, the party responsible for maintenance of the property will be open to litigation - I'd guess its not like in Vermont or WA.

I've also noticed over the last few years, that more and more rural properties are putting up no trespassing signs. We're talking out in the bush - they'll line their property with the signs. Even though the law here states that one only needs to have one no trespassing sign, at lets say the main entrance. I think its sad to see, as it makes large portions of this province feel very off limits and gone forever.
I used to post, because local farmers started doing so when Vermont began allowing whitetail doe hunting. Things have calmed down and I removed my remaining signs a couple of years ago. VF&W has told the local coyote murderers to stay off my land.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,821
7,295
SADL
In WA if you charge an access fee to your land you become liable for injury. If you allow free access state law grants private property owners immunity from liability. It's lots of incentive for private property owners to play nice with us.

Country club mtb trails. You just blew my mind @canadmos - talking like theres exclusive riding spots with mandatory dues.
It's even more wacked in Quebec. Now most 'trail centers' are pay to play. Most charge $20. Those centers have to pay an hefty insurance policy. Trails are mostly maintained by employees.

Wackiest part; Free trail network, that are maintained exclusively by volunteers, also have to pay an hefty insurance policy. We're talking around $20k a year. And the trails need to be tamed down with a shitload of signs for every small obstacles.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
547
357
It's even more wacked in Quebec. Now most 'trail centers' are pay to play. Most charge $20. Those centers have to pay an hefty insurance policy. Trails are mostly maintained by employees.

Wackiest part; Free trail network, that are maintained exclusively by volunteers, also have to pay an hefty insurance policy. We're talking around $20k a year. And the trails need to be tamed down with a shitload of signs for every small obstacles.
so that’s why videos say sdm it looks like the danger signs are the boy who cried wolf. Like is this danger drop sign for a 2 foot high rollable rock or a 12 ft drop with a gap?
 
It's even more wacked in Quebec. Now most 'trail centers' are pay to play. Most charge $20. Those centers have to pay an hefty insurance policy. Trails are mostly maintained by employees.

Wackiest part; Free trail network, that are maintained exclusively by volunteers, also have to pay an hefty insurance policy. We're talking around $20k a year. And the trails need to be tamed down with a shitload of signs for every small obstacles.
Large institutions, e.g. government or corporations, are incapable overall of being fair or doing good.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,821
7,295
SADL
so that’s why videos say sdm it looks like the danger signs are the boy who cried wolf. Like is this danger drop sign for a 2 foot high rollable rock or a 12 ft drop with a gap?
They have multiple types of signs. And bypasses every where.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,821
7,295
SADL
Large institutions, e.g. government or corporations, are incapable overall of being fair or doing good.
Mountain biking in our province is treated like a business, not for the healthy benefits of the sport. We use to have a couple of trailbuilding companies, now there must be twenty.