Experience with Ellsworth? anyone

indieboy · Dec 24, 2002

Originally posted by bURKeNSTiEN
Hi all,

I'm considering selling my Craftworks HT and buying an ellsworth truth / sc blur. It'll be used for trail riding with Lots of climbs & some XC racing as well. Whilst the Craftworks frame totally rocks, a 7lb hardtail is a little heavy duty to rock up to XC races on.... time to move on

Now, in Australia, Ellsworths are about as common rocking horse sh1t due to price & I have never even SEEN a truth in person.

This poses two problems, one I have no-one I know to ask about quality & reliability of the bike itself. Two I have no idea how it rides!

From everything I read theyre ultra high quality & handle/climb superbly, but I want to hear that from some fellow Monkeys.

What's your experience with Ellsworth guys? As good as the hyperbole? Worth dropping $3400 on a frame?

The SC blur I have seen & it looks absolutel magnificent, havent ridden that yet either though.

Cheers

dudeeeeeeee i'm almost positive you can get that frame cheaper then that!! www.speedgoat.com i know they've done some international sales somewhere a long the line. not sure how you'd get taxed or what the shipping costs would come to but i'd be willing it would be worth checking out.

JohnMc · Dec 24, 2002

He's probably talking Australian dollars - it converts to 1,915.36 USD.

I've had my Truth for 2+ seasons and still absolutely love it. I've put in a lot of hard use. Mostly trailriding, but some racing as well. I initially set up the rear shock pretty stiff, but eventually realized it climbs just as efficiently with the shock set pretty plush. It turns laps in race situations just as fast as my lighter Cannondale hardtail (on courses with steep climbs and fast descents, interspersed with flat sections). Climbing and sprinting is bad out of the saddle only if you really hop up and down in a very rough manner - get any sort of smoothness in your standing spin and it will just scoot instead. Descending and in technical terrain you really get to use the full suspension travel because you don't need the shock pumped up stiff to pedal efficiently. My bike is set up as a sort of trailrider with riser Easton carbon bars, disc brakes, and a 5 inch Psylo Race up front. 25.5 lbs with XT components. 1500 miles of rough use so far and the rear triangle is still absolutely as tight as new, and the anodized ballburnished finish is completely unmarred. The Fox shock needed a rebuild after about 1100 miles, however. The damping disappeared.

I've ridden many other full suspension bikes and the only one that felt as good going up hills was a Sugar 1 - but the limitations of that were made clear coming back down (limited, stiff travel when set up to climb).

Cliff's notes: I have a Truth, absolutely love it. Would reccomend it to all.

Arutha · Dec 24, 2002

I owned a '99 truth and really liked. Not sure how the new bearing truths feel. Probably more active but not sure. As for customer service I have had no problems but I have heard others complain about them. My only dealings with them were getting a new rear triangle. And V-brake bosses which I got for free, even shipping, but I live in the States too.

The mentioned price might have been related to the exchange rate?

Certainly talk to Speedgoat. They are the only bikeshop I deal with and sell both the frames you mentioned. Chris can probably give you a good explaination of their ride characteristics along with other bikes like the Turner 02 or XCE and some of the Titus stuff.

Good luck!

indieboy · Dec 24, 2002

Originally posted by Arutha
I owned a '99 truth and really liked. Not sure how the new bearing truths feel. Probably more active but not sure. As for customer service I have had no problems but I have heard others complain about them. My only dealings with them were getting a new rear triangle. And V-brake bosses which I got for free, even shipping, but I live in the States too.

The mentioned price might have been related to the exchange rate?

Certainly talk to Speedgoat. They are the only bikeshop I deal with and sell both the frames you mentioned. Chris can probably give you a good explaination of their ride characteristics along with other bikes like the Turner 02 or XCE and some of the Titus stuff.

Good luck!

yeah chris is a really good guy, hope those guys enjoyed the bad ass single speed they got from IF this summer. it had an orange fade to white around the decals w/ white stars fading in between the two, it was pimp nuff said lol

indieboy · Dec 24, 2002

i'm allllllll for hardtails, i honestly do not see the need for a full suspension. and if you were thinking bout an XLM you might want to check out the Independent Fabrication Ti Deluxe. it's a few of the old guys that worked for merlin that are doing all the Ti stuff for IF. it's sweet it's pretty much the legacy of merlin (that merlin couldn't uphold since litespeed bought em out) notched up a good bit. there are a lot of things done to their Ti bikes that just don't get done to many other companies. those guys know Titanium very well and can work w/ you to build your bike however you want it to be. i like my bikes stiff at the BB but still want some vertical compliance so my back won't die out as well as a bike that is quick and nimble in the tech stuff but can always throw it down on the long climbs and the short steep ones as well. well they built jsut that for me. here's a pic of mine. seriously if a designer knows the material well enough they can build you the perfect hardtail that will leave you never even thinking of a FS......

indieboy · Dec 24, 2002

here's just a small sample of the welds those guys are putting out

indieboy · Dec 24, 2002

Originally posted by indieboy
here's just a small sample of the welds those guys are putting out

damnit it didn't work click here

Arutha · Dec 24, 2002

Originally posted by indieboy
damnit it didn't work click here

Quality welds like Moots. Very nice.

If you just want to take a little bite out of the trail you might want to think about a soft-tail. It really depends on what and how you ride and what you are looking for. I love FS for trails but I ride in rough terrain. If I rode hardpacked single track and alot of fire roads I might think about a hardtail for a moment, then go buy a FS.

indieboy · Dec 25, 2002

Originally posted by bURKeNSTiEN
The idea of a little Ti hardtail does sound very tempting indeed.

The only potential problem I can see is that typical lightweight HT frames are 'strictly' XC in a sense. Ie designed for 63-80mm forks & very light weight. I mean I'd be concerned about hurting a 20lb XC racer on hard rides, I want myself to be the limiting factor for how hard/fast I can go, not the bike being the limiting factor because its too lightweight/fragile. You get where I'm coming from?

The way my current bike is set up at the moment its basically bullet proof for the kind of riding I do, I can be 100% confident that I can hit anything that I want & the bike will just eat it up...the only weak link would be myself... I need a bike that can do it all basically (except full on DH) without worry.

My current bike isn't super light but its not 'that' heavy. It's a ~7lb hardtail frame, full xtr, float100rlc & mavic 521's and as its a frame designed for slalom racing its geometry feels better to me than many XC racers which feel too sketchy above 60-70kmh.
If the frame lost 3-4lbs & I got lighter wheels that would be ultimate.

I'm giving the bike another 12months of life max, then it will be 4 years old & time to move on.
I don't even know that I need a full suspension rig for non DH riding because I reckon that I go pretty hard on my trails as is, but I figure that full sus could make me even faster & have more fun....and they're supposed to climb well, but can it really compete with a hardtail.. Compounding the problem is that no-one I know owns a high-end duallie

Decisions, decisions... IF can do custom can they, very interesting. I'm not against spending rediculous amounts on this new bike, but when it's built it's got to rock my old bike out of the water (a hard task) I dont want to get a duallie & think 'damn this is squish, wheres my HT'

there is nothing fragile about a Ti frame IF it is well made......many of the guys at the factory ride some crazy shiet on their Ti bikes and haven't had a problem yet on it. most of em actually are probably just like you, a few of em race but they ride b/c it's what they love but they still want a nice light weight bike that can handle the abuse they throw at it. and trust me nothing on their Ti bikes is any different from the one you would be getting...if you don't want the bike to be designed for 80mm of travel, they can design the bike around whatever fork you choose to slab on there. and the price of the frame for the Ti covers custom geometry. they have set geometries already laid out but they don't build a stock up, everything is built to order makes manufactuering a truely custom frame a lot easier......oh and when i say custom i am not just talkin bout geometry, talkin bout wall thickness, tube diameter......etc., although i really doubt you'd need anything more then what they use on the rear end nice big ol 7/8's stays, and they can beef up the front triangle to suit your needs.

indieboy · Dec 25, 2002

Originally posted by bURKeNSTiEN
IF does sound quite tempting. My road frame was custom made for me & I friggn love it!

Only problem is sooo expensive.. damn... price of admission I guess. even more than Moots!

(speedgoat)
SC blur vpp - 2782gm - $1300
SC superlight - 2480gm - $1200

Yeti ARC - 1415gm
ellsworth sub22 - 1453gm - $995
ellsworth truth w/ Float RL - 2468gm - $2070

I.F. Deluxe Ti Frame - 1680gm - $2600
Moots Rigor Mootis Frame - 1476gm - $2195

the price won't change from dealership to dealership either. unless you got a local dealership which wouldn't be the case b/c i know personally just about all of their dealers. they have a program set up where online dealers can't blow out their product. the main purpose behind this is to allow the smaller mom n pop shops to be able to compete when selling the same product. and trust me it's well worth EEEEEEEEEVVVVVVERY penny! you can actually go to their website and see each step those guys do to make you your bike. the only step missing is the shot penning, which is a process where tiny metal balls are shot at the frame at a calculated angle to relieve stress from areas that would have high stress points ie the weld areas. this process also gives the bike a nice textured feel n look that no other company has on it's ti bikes. it doesn't look like your stand Ti bike as you can see in the pic of mine and the pic of the weld. adds to the price of the frame in the long run but makes a bike that is going to last you way longer then you could possibly ride it. one of my buddies who is on this site actually looked at the steps the guys at IF go through to make their frames and his almost exact words were "man they do a LOT of extra shiet" which is how it should be click here to see the steps i was talking about

indieboy · Dec 25, 2002

Originally posted by Arutha
Quality welds like Moots. Very nice.

If you just want to take a little bite out of the trail you might want to think about a soft-tail. It really depends on what and how you ride and what you are looking for. I love FS for trails but I ride in rough terrain. If I rode hardpacked single track and alot of fire roads I might think about a hardtail for a moment, then go buy a FS.

the soft tail is a good concept, however they are designed to flex, and are actually quite noddley. the onlllllllly soft tail bike not like this is the IBIS simple b/c of the flat chainstays.......

dhmtbj · Dec 25, 2002

Two years ago I went from a specialized stumpjumper hardtail to an ellsworth/ Aeon ISIS and was very pleased. I ride lots of technical trails and not being bounced all over the place and still having efficient pedaling was great! I think you will be very happy with full suspension.

johnbryanpeters · Dec 25, 2002

Specialized RockHopper to Raleigh M8000 to Ellsworth Joker.
I still like riding the full rigid, but the Joker goes out every day.
Especially for longer rides in rough terrain, FS rules.

J

JohnMc · Dec 26, 2002

As mentioned above I got my Truth two seasons ago and still have my previous F3000 Cannondale. I usually end up grabbing the Ellsworth when I go riding, and use it in about half the races depending on the course (the C'dale gets used on the less technical trails).

Perhaps the best trail in the Midwest is the Berryman trail about an hour south of St. Louis. Its 24.5 miles of hilly single track in a large loop. On the Cannondale I finish one loop and am feeling done. With the Ellsworth I finish in about the same time (the switchback descents usually curtail higher speeds down the hills) but feel much, much fresher. This fall I actually turned around at the end and rode back - 49 miles of single track in one serving. At the end of the double trail I felt about as tired and beat up as I do just doing a single on the HT.

Since getting the Truth I've gotten a lot better on technical stuff - it gives me the confidence to just push straight through stuff that I used to slow down for and pick my way through. Oddly enough it has improved my abilities on the HT as well.

My Ellsworth: http://home.earthlink.net/~muddybiker/ellsworth.jpg
and the C'dale: http://home.earthlink.net/~muddybiker/cannondale.jpg
Links instead of img tags in case you don't care...

Drunken_Ninja · Jan 1, 2003

I am seeking to purchase the Ellsworth Truth this spring. I just began saving for it.

I read an article mentioning that there are 3 shock options available. Cane Creek AD12, Fox or Romic Ti. Coil. The difference in weight between a fox and a Romic is .3lbs.

Ellsworth the highest quality bicycle I have been able to find on the market for epic riding. Here is my setup to begin the season. Nothing compares to their product on the market from what I understand. They have the Truth at my local bicycle shop and I go to visit them every so often.

I heard also that the rear linkage on the Rocky Mountain ETS-X bicycles snaps. I have heard of two reported cases from my local bicycle shops this year. One took out the rear linkange because it snapped. The other took out the rear linkage plus the bottom bracket which got entirely ripped off the frame. After all the problems I have had with their hardtail, plus after hearing this and how RM7's break I have decided to leave them forever. I will never buy another Rocky Mountain Bicycle again

Dog Welder · Jan 4, 2003

Heres my honese opinion of Ellsworth. I bought a Joker two years ago after doing pretty extensive research and narrowed it down to the Bullit and Joker. I went with the Joker because for 200 USD more I could get a bike that had a better warranty and was more aesthetically pleasing. I bought it and as a trail bike it was excellent. I began downhilling on it pretty heavily last year and noticed certain quality control issues that I've seen on other Jokers. The main one being that despite having a perfectly dished and trued wheel, said wheel was always cocked off center, which would mean that the rear end was out of alignment. I've seen this on a few other ellsworths as well. It is in my opinion that Jokers tend to favor the cross country/trail biking set rather than the freeriding/dh set...as I have snapped my Joker into three pieces. Ellworth warrantied it within three days of receiving the frame...but the break was so catastrophic that my confidence aboard the Joker has been shaken and I"m selling the warrantied frame. If you want an excellent single pivot bike that can do everything....look toward the Foes Fly ($2000 USD) or mid range the new Orange Patriot 7 (1600USD) or the SC Bullit (1200). But out of the choices you listed the SC Blur is what I would go with. I've ridden one and it truely is an excellent frame. It decends far better than any 4 in travel bike i've ridden. And for the price it is a great deal. Only downside is that its VERY difficult to get one. The bike shop I work for sells more santa cruz bikes than any other store in California, except for one. And even we are having an extremely difficult time getting frames. So if you like Ellsworht I have a large forest green Joker that's up for sale...hell I'll even bring it with me when I come to Austrailia in a month.

VTinCT · Jan 6, 2003

Originally posted by ellsworth
Two years ago I went from a specialized stumpjumper hardtail to an ellsworth/ Aeon ISIS and was very pleased. I ride lots of technical trails and not being bounced all over the place and still having efficient pedaling was great! I think you will be very happy with full suspension.

Ummm...ditto! I went from the spine shattering ride of the Stumpy to an Isis, and for tech/hard trail riding will never go back (except night rides....ht for bottle mounts :rolleyes:

). At this pointthe Isis is sao built up, I really need to move on to a joker, but that will have to wait another season.....damn responsibility!!:angry:

looseunit · Jan 11, 2003

Dirt works the importers of ellsworth in australia droped the wholesale price of the ellsworth bike range, because they sold many of the parts that went on them. I believe that they are also doing cheaper parts packages on them for this reason, we did do a quote for ellsworth truth at work the other week so i will check for you.

As for the importer of santa cruz the price of there frames is very high, but they offer very cheap parts packages. Eg like 3k for a bullit frame built with boxxers race and freeride parts kit is around the $6200 go figure. I know one of the reps of SC let me know want you are after and next time in see him i try and find out a price.

If you are after a custom frame there are several custom frame maker in Australia, Bear from dirt works make bikes to any mesuremnet that you want and material you want.

What do you want for your crafty?

Drunken_Ninja · Jan 17, 2003

I saw in a MBA magazine article that the ellesworth was supposed to be like $2872 CDN and it comes out to like $3300. The more I try to put my head around it the worse it gets. If I am going to spend the $$$ I think I need to build up something better.

I may as well go with 5 inches of rear travel. The fork selection at 100mm and 105 mm just sucks. The best way to deal with it is to get a better bike. I am thinking of going to Turner instead of Ellsworth now. My local bike shop reccomended that I go with the Turner instead cause I will actually ride it like a bicycle.

For a 4" travel front suspension I figure there is only one was to build it, for racing or for riding. Racing forks Marathon Marzocchi will snap at the crown if used aggessively, Manitou is freaking too heavy, so is psylo and too big, RS duke is heavy and fox air blow seals like stupid Their coil is too heavy.

The Ellsworth break or something was the shop murmur. Turner was the reccomendation. I was applying for a job there when it came up. I think that after riding a 4" fork for a year I will want a bigger fork. The turner is stronger at the headtube I would say.

Custom building a real bike is going to be weird. I still have got no terrain to ride in Ontario. I need the 5" by 5" for those yearly trips to the north shore to ride XC. Looks like I'll be building a stupidly heavy xc bike. I am in hell. At least I'll have a real bike I can ride.

Marzocchi Z.1 FR might be full of kickers. . .if i am gonna ride a bike, well i have got to own one first.

Ridemonkey · Jan 18, 2003

You guys see they have Turner XCE's for 1200 bucks at Supergo? That beats a kick in the nuts for sure!

Drunken_Ninja · Jan 18, 2003

Turner XCE

I didn't know that one existed. Yup that is what I was looking for. I am sure that headtube looks one heck of alot stronger than the ellsworth.

Drunken_Ninja · Jan 25, 2003

Intense Spyder

This one is comparible to the Ellsworth Truth and the Turner XCE. It is the lightest of the 3 at 5.2 lbs.

I wish I could get this twisted fairytale of what bicycle I want to own next year out of my head.

According to Marzocchi their new marathon coil is a very durable fork and one of the toughest on the market. My fear of snapping crowns may be fiction. Rumors make the purchasing thing sooooo much better.

The ellsworth had a gap between the top tube and the down tube at the headtube weld at my local bike shop, I have turned a few shades of pale after seeing that.

Another bike to toss around in my head.

Drunken_Ninja · Jan 31, 2003

Bombshell - Cherrybomb

The only thing missing on this one is the weight. This frame has to be the cheapest and the strongest I have seen. More similar to the ellsworth overall. More durable. It is tagged a FR frame so it might not be all that light.

I have been through the fork debate over and over with this thread. The overall murmur was that the marathon is a 3.5 coil fork and not durable for anything considered to be big or stupid. I am picking up the Marzocchi MX comp w/eta (3.6lbs) as my fork of choice next week.

Even if the bombshell frame weighs in fair. . .

The sram9.0 disc hydraulic discbrakes are gonna be next.

my setup

Thylacine · Feb 6, 2003

Burkenstein,

Mate, I live in Melbourne and my best friend rides a Truth. You need to call me for the full skinny ( 03 8309 0005 ).

Cheerz

Drunken_Ninja · Jul 6, 2003

I take it all back. There ain't way way in h e double hockey sticks that i am getting a new bike this year.

secondly there is no way that i am getting any of these bikes that i mentioned before.

Last spring i musta been drinking too much saki because there is no way i can a) afford any of it b) would purchase any of it if i had the folding stuff.

because

a)i suck
b)not in my wildest dreams would that ever come true
c)i am a very bored college student
d)i don't even think that an aol user would fall for any one of them
e)all of the above

Experience with Ellsworth? anyone

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