[$tinkle]

here in our little hometown paper, they reported the members of the state HH&S passed House Bill 1042 by a vote of 9-4, which essentially states colorado hospitals (but not clinics?) would have to educate rape victims of the availability of emergency contraception (morning after pill or plan-B, NOT ru-486). This would be understandable if rape=pregnancy, but the reality is only 1% of rapes result in pregnancy. The hospital would not hand out the ECP, but refer out.

in full


i just know planned parenthood is involved in this somehow.

(dons tinfoil hat)

 

[ohio]

Yeah, we should definitely wait to find out if they're in the 1% before we offer any help on a pregnancy front. Then they can have a rape AND an abortion. Won't that be fun.

You know unprotected sex with an HIV-infected person only transfers the disease in about 1% of cases. Should we wait until after someone is infected to tell them about condoms?

 

[$tinkle]

name one - just one - condom which prevents HIV xmission

i see your "point" however; perhaps we should encourage rapists to wear condoms, or encourage women to dress more modestly, lest they ask for it.

another problem here with this legislation: a catholic hospital can't (yet?) receive gov't funds b/c they're "faith-based", but they can be told which articles of their faith they should compromise.

outstanding.

 

[Silver]

That is outrageous legislation, you're correct.

It should cover all rape victims, not just the ones that go to a hospital.

 

[$tinkle]

better exploitation legislation yet: have convicted rapists attend the funerals of their victims' victims

 

[Silver]

Oh, so now emergency contraception is the same as abortion?

 

[ohio]

name one - just one - condom which prevents HIV xmission

No such thing as prevention. Life is about probabilities, and condoms drastically reduce the probablitity of HIV transmission.

Quick search turned up a fairly old (1997) journal article attached below. This is consistent with more recent studies, with findings approved by the CDC and American Red Cross, showing "Of the 123 couples using condoms consistently, no uninfected partner became infected during the study. Of the 122 couples not using condoms consistently, 12 partners became infected with HIV"

----------------------------------------------

Effectiveness of condoms in preventing HIV transmission

Stephen D.Pinkerton and Paul R. Ambramson
Center for AIDS Intervention Research, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, USA and
University of California, Los Angeles, USA.

ABSTRACT
The consistent use of latex condoms continues to be advocated for primary prevention of HIV infection despite limited quantative evidence regarding effectiveness of condoms blocking the sexual transmission of HIV. Although recent meta-analyses of condom effectiveness suggest that condoms are 60to 70% effective when used for HIV prophylaxis, these studies do not isolate consistent condom use, and therefore provide only a lower bound on the true effectiveness of correct and consistent condom use. A reexamination of HIV seroconversion studies suggests that condoms are 90 to 95% effective when used consistently, i.e. consistent condom users are 10 to 20 times less likely to become infected when exposed to the virus than are inconsistent or non-users. Similar results are obtained utilising model-based estimation techniques, which indicate that condoms decrease the per-contact probability of male to female transmission of HIV by about 95%. Though imperfect, condoms provide substantial protection against HIV infection. Condom promotion therefore remains an important international priority in the fight against AIDS.

Edit:
name one - just one - bike helmet which prevents head injury

 

[$tinkle]

as far as i can tell, it [ECP] is at best a sub-category of abortion (when it causes a miscarriage), but certainly not congruent to it. i can entertain an argument that ru486 - an abortificiant - is a form of abortion; specifically: chemical abortion.

 

[ohio]

name one - just one - condom which prevents HIV xmission

i see your "point" however; perhaps we should encourage rapists to wear condoms, or encourage women to dress more modestly, lest they ask for it.

another problem here with this legislation: a catholic hospital can't (yet?) receive gov't funds b/c they're "faith-based", but they can be told which articles of their faith they should compromise.

outstanding.

By the way, try to focus. How many issues do you want to tackle in one thread?

You are actually against an option that would allow women to prevent pregnancy from rape, lest they have to choose between abortion and bearing the child of a rapist by waiting too long or not knowing the options. I thought you were ANTI-abortion?

 

[ohio]

as far as i can tell, it [ECP] is at best a sub-category of abortion (when it causes a miscarriage)

WHEN IT CAUSES MISCARRIAGE. But the majority of the time (I'll have to find stats) it works before implantation of the egg in the womb. Would you prefer to wait until the fetus is mid-term, and then have the woman have an abortion? Because, given that it's legal and we're talking about the offspring of rape, most will.

 

[Silver]

as far as i can tell, it [ECP] is at best a sub-category of abortion (when it causes a miscarriage), but certainly not congruent to it. i can entertain an argument that ru486 - an abortificiant - is a form of abortion; specifically: chemical abortion.

ECP isn't abortion, unless you redefine the word (edit: pregnancy being the word in question, sorry about that) (and that would make petri dishes used for IVF "pregnant")

RU-486 is an abortion, that is true. My point is that RU-486 isn't what is being disclosed to rape victims here, ECP is.

 

[$tinkle]

on another tasteless note: the linked article about fetus funerals had this random ad

ohio: your stats obviously don't refer to planned parenthood condoms (abstract: Planned Parenthood distributes condoms to teens and young adults knowing they will fail, leading to a pregnancy and allowing the abortion business to gain a new customer.)

You are actually against an option that would allow women to prevent pregnancy from rape

not addressing this; sorry for the confusion. I'm striving for (wait for it...) fair & balanced advocacy

I thought you were ANTI-abortion?

let me quote bill clinton in 1997 to clarify my stance: "keep abortion safe, legal, and rare" (emphasis added)

 

[binary visions]

(abstract: Planned Parenthood distributes condoms to teens and young adults knowing they will fail, leading to a pregnancy and allowing the abortion business to gain a new customer.)

Take the tin foil hat off for a minute and look up the definition of abstract - it does not involve channeling the summary through your own wild political/social theories.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Oh, so now emergency contraception is the same as abortion?

that depends on whether you think life starts at the union of the sperm and egg, or at the time the fertilized egg implants itself in the uterus..

 

[Silver]

that depends on whether you think life starts at the union of the sperm and egg, or at the time the fertilized egg implants itself in the uterus..

No, it doesn't. It depends on the word pregnancy. Like I said, if you redefine the word, then you can speak of Plan B causing abortion. Until the egg implants, it's not a pregnancy.

The discussion over where life starts is meaningless as well, but that's another thread, and something we've already hashed out a few times.

 

[ohio]

ohio: your stats obviously don't refer to planned parenthood condoms

Don't deflect. We're not discussing Planned Parenthood, their politics, or their budget. We're discussing (in a tangent in and of itself) the efficacy of condoms. Are you still trying to make the claim that condoms are ineffective in drastically reducing the probability of HIV transmission?

Back to the point, it is unconscionable to me that you would want to withhold from a rape victim information that could prevent an abortion. That stands in direct opposition to "safe, legal, and rare" (all three).

And yes, I agree that all clinics, hospitals, etc should have to to offer up this information.

I still don't get this whole conspiracy theory about the abortion industry. Do you actually believe there is a large group of people that would like to see an increase in demand/need for abortions for reasons of their own financial gain?

 

[$tinkle]

Are you still trying to make the claim that condoms are ineffective in drastically reducing the probability of HIV transmission?

never did; never will

I still don't get this whole conspiracy theory about the abortion industry. Do you actually believe there is a large group of people that would like to see an increase in demand/need for abortions for reasons of their own financial gain?

not financial gain, financial viability/sustainability.

eugenics, margaret sanger, planned parenthood.

2 are alive & kicking

 

[Silver]

I still don't get what position you're for. If you don't like abortions, Plan B is a good thing. No telly about Plan B, you may have a clinic visit in the future.

 

[ohio]

never did; never will

Then don't perpetuate loaded half-truths such as "condoms don't prevent the transmission of HIV." I consider making that statement to a teenager tantamount to murder. No, I am not joking.

 

[Silver]

Then don't perpetuate loaded half-truths such as "condoms don't prevent the transmission of HIV." I consider making that statement to a teenager tantamount to murder. No, I am not joking.

I have a funny one to tell you about about what the Catholic Church has been doing in Africa.

You're going to laugh your ass off...

 

[$tinkle]

but you have to be catholic to have a sense of humor?
those funny pontiffs...

 

[$tinkle]

Then don't perpetuate loaded half-truths such as "condoms don't prevent the transmission of HIV."

if we all behaved likewise, would not this forum be tossed on the ashheap of irrelevance?

I consider making that statement to a teenager tantamount to murder. No, I am not joking.

i think we'll both agree the only 0% risk involves abstinence; but that is not germaine to this topic & will stop trolling (just for now).

i was really hoping someone would bite on the eugenics deal; i'm all dressed up and no place to froth.