[Changleen]

You should point this out to the people that killed 37 people and not ridemonkey folks. It's sad that this crap is going on, but it's not the government causing it. Just like one of my ladies at work. As soon as one thing is resolved, she searches something else to bitch about. Extremist are just, well......just that. They will always find a cause. This time they just found some kids in CA to support their actions. You may not think you do, but completely doubting folks running a country that most of us know little about helps their justifications.

From the statement put out by the group which apparantly perpitrated these attacks:

Rejoice for it is time to take revenge against the British Zionist Crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Changleen]

Really??? I had no idea that we killed hundreds of thousands of anyones in recent history. I should watch the news.

As long as it's not Fox.

Edit: Being pedantic about casualty figures which are undoubtedly higher than 70,000 and probably more like 200,000 isn't that cool.

 

[Changleen]

Extremist are just, well......just that. They will always find a cause.

I really don't agree with you about that. Sure there are a few people who are just psychos, but the getting together, the planning and plotting, the combined purpose - these people didn't do this just as an outlet for their crazyness.

 

[JRB]

Uhm - I really have no idea what the casualty numbers are.

Now - putting on a chicken suit and running up Sunset is not the only crazy thing to do. There are lots of levels of crazy. I don't think we went to Iraq for what they said we did, nor do I support Bush, but blowing sh*t up because you disagree ranks right up there with crazy in my book.

*and extremists will ALWAYS find something to be extreme about. It's what they do.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I didnt say there is no religious fundamentalism, i said, there is no room for it in our society....yet it is very prevalent (especially in TN) & it will probably be the downfall of our civilization. That is my point.

That's kind of narrow minded, don't you think? Shouldn't we be *more* tolerant, not less?

There should be room in our society for *all* points of view, IMO.

 

[Ciaran]

You should point this out to the people that killed 37 people and not ridemonkey folks. It's sad that this crap is going on, but it's not the government causing it. Just like one of my ladies at work. As soon as one thing is resolved, she searches something else to bitch about. Extremist are just, well......just that. They will always find a cause. This time they just found some kids in CA to support their actions. You may not think you do, but completely doubting folks running a country that most of us know little about helps their justifications.

*out before this drags me to the political forum.

I don't know, man... it seems to me that it IS the government that is causing it. I know that this whole middle east conflict has been going on for longer then any of us have been alive and that our and their current governments did not start this conflict but it is our current government as well as theirs that has helped perpetuate it. I think it goes back to the fact that the soldier does not start the war, rather it is the politician who starts the war. I just don't fall for all the rhetoric about them not liking freedom or that they are just evil people who will always do evil things. Extremists (and terrorists) are not born, they are made. I do not know the exact reasons they become extremists, or terrorists but I suspect that it may have somethign to do with a feeling of being oppressed, and feelings of extreme frustration (be they social, economic or religious). Now, I do not condone their activities at all. Killing innocents is deplorable. They should keep the battle on the battlefield. But that aside, perhaps if our government concerned themselves less with what's going on in the middle east (as well as the rest of the world) and focused on our problems here at home, maybe the extremists wouldn't focus so much on us.

As for doubting the folks in charge, well that is the job of every true patriot. We should never EVER accept what our elected officials say and/or do without questioning it. It's the lack of questioning that leads to fascism, dictatorships and various other governmental atrocities. Freedom is the God givin right of every human being. And it IS free... until some human being tries to take it away. Only then do you have to fight for it. And yes, despite whay you and others may think, this hippie liberal commie pinko very much appreciates the sacrifices that other people have made in the name of defending my freedom. I LOVE liberty. If there was an effective way to fight our government when they take our rights away I would. And if our country was invaded and we really did have to fight to defend our home and freedom I would be first in line.

I think of something my father said to me when I asked him why he was in the Marines, and why my grandfather fought in Korea, and why my uncle fought in Vietnam... "So that (hopefully) you won't have to".

This is just my disjointed opinion. Your mileage may vary.

I can't believe this thread has gone this far without being moved to the Political Forum!

 

[JRB]

I don't know, man... it seems to me that it IS the government that is causing it. I know that this whole middle east conflict has been going on for longer then any of us have been alive and that our and their current governments did not start this conflict but it is our current government as well as theirs that has helped perpetuate it. I think it goes back to the fact that the soldier does not start the war, rather it is the politician who starts the war. I just don't fall for all the rhetoric about them not liking freedom or that they are just evil people who will always do evil things. Extremists (and terrorists) are not born, they are made. I do not know the exact reasons they become extremists, or terrorists but I suspect that it may have somethign to do with a feeling of being oppressed, and feelings of extreme frustration (be they social, economic or religious). Now, I do not condone their activities at all. Killing innocents is deplorable. They should keep the battle on the battlefield. But that aside, perhaps if our government concerned themselves less with what's going on in the middle east (as well as the rest of the world) and focused on our problems here at home, maybe the extremists wouldn't focus so much on us.

As for doubting the folks in charge, well that is the job of every true patriot. We should never EVER accept what our elected officials say and/or do without questioning it. It's the lack of questioning that leads to fascism, dictatorships and various other governmental atrocities. Freedom is the God givin right of every human being. And it IS free... until some human being tries to take it away. Only then do you have to fight for it. And yes, despite whay you and others may think, this hippie liberal commie pinko very much appreciates the sacrifices that other people have made in the name of defending my freedom. I LOVE liberty. If there was an effective way to fight our government when they take our rights away I would. And if our country was invaded and we really did have to fight to defend our home and freedom I would be first in line.

I think of something my father said to me when I asked him why he was in the Marines, and why my grandfather fought in Korea, and why my uncle fought in Vietnam... "So that (hopefully) you won't have to".

This is just my disjointed opinion. Your mileage may vary.

I can't believe this thread has gone this far without being moved to the Political Forum!

Lots of good points. I disagree most of the time as well, but I don't know many of the details, so I keep quiet most often. I'm with you on keeping our noses out. I don't understand the drive in being involved in other people's problems, but like I said, there are many details I don't know. There can always be an argument about anything. It's just sad that innocent people continue to die. No matter what side they are on.

 

[chicodude]

And if our country was invaded and we really did have to fight to defend our home and freedom I would be first in line.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Bush is a tool but this statement is ultimately correct. If we weren't messing with them they would find someone else to kill or just attack us anyway for some other reason.

am really childish...
but even then, i think that is a childish reasoning....

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Mike D has some very insightful and well researched posts in PD forum on this topic. There is a good chance if we conceeded certain things (walked away with our tails between our legs, ie Spain) a large percentage of terrorist groups would probably leave us alone, but certain extreme extremeist would stay their course. It would cause certain policy changes that would probably have little affect on National security/stability but would take a giant hit to American Pride. So do we bite the bullet and retreat or enter into a long expensive war of attrition? So far public opinion is to fight and my guess it will remain that way.

which is why (in this case more of Israel pride), in my pessimistic POV, it will only keep getting worse and worse and spilling all over the world, to civilians, each time getting both sides more enraged and so on....

and since no side wants to concede enough (for the sake of their pride or whatever) both sides are walking towards a "one side survives" scenario...

not that am advocating a genocide.. but man! both sides act like if they want to get to that point...

 

[Changleen]

It's just sad that innocent people continue to die. No matter what side they are on.

 

[TN]

That's kind of narrow minded, don't you think? Shouldn't we be *more* tolerant, not less?

There should be room in our society for *all* points of view, IMO.

I dont know what you definition of religious fundamentalism is, but here is a remnder...

fun·da·men·tal·ism n.
1.)A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
often
2.)Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
Adherence to the theology of this movement.


sorry, but my point of view is not narrow minded. Once again...there is no room for religious fundamentalism in our society, that is if we want our civilization to flourish.

I think if you want to be religious it should be like enjoying a fetish, as long as you enjoy it, in your private life, it doesnt hurt anyone, infringe on others rights not to enjoy their own fetishes, than go for it. :evil:

You can pray to the almighty toe jam, build shrines & altars, but keep it personal.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I dont know what you definition of religious fundamentalism is, but here is a remnder...

fun·da·men·tal·ism n.
1.)A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
often
2.)Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
Adherence to the theology of this movement.


sorry, but my point of view is not narrow minded. Once again...there is no room for religious fundamentalism in our society, that is if we want our civilization to flourish.

There is plenty of room for religious fundamentalism. They can be as intolerant as they want. Me being intolerant of them won't really help the matter any.

I think if you want to be religious it should be like enjoying a fetish, as long as you enjoy it, in your private life, it doesnt hurt anyone, infringe on others rights not to enjoy their own fetishes, than go for it. :evil:

There's the rub. Religious fundamentalists have every right to be fundamentalists - but they damn well better not *force* me to adhere to/recognize any of their wacky principles. Live and let live.

I think we may agree.

 

[TN]

There is plenty of room for religious fundamentalism. They can be as intolerant as they want. Me being intolerant of them won't really help the matter any.


There's the rub. Religious fundamentalists have every right to be fundamentalists - but they damn well better not *force* me to adhere to/recognize any of their wacky principles. Live and let live.

I think we may agree.

so, you think we should tolerate intolerance?

 

[SkaredShtles]

so, you think we should tolerate intolerance?

Absolutely. They can be as intolerant as they want, for all I care. As long as they don't tromp on my rights, I could give a rat's ass.

So you think we should be intolerant of intolerance?

 

[Westy]

Uhm - when did the US and Britain kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims??? Did I miss the Monday meeting again???

Actually Britain was the first country to use carpet bombing tactics on villages in Iraq. I guess this was while they occupied the area after WWI and certain villages were rebelling agains british occupation.

Edit: Of course that does not equal hundreds of thousands of Muslims. For some reason I just felt the need to throw out that little tidbit of info.

 

[urbaindk]

Skared and TN: don't for get the Evanglical part. You know that part where pushing their ideals on others is a strong part of their belief system. Them being fundamental and leaving you alone is not a part of their system...

TN if you live in the Bible Belt, how many times have you been approached and prostalatized (sp?) to by coworkers and acquantiances ("Son, Are you a Christian? Let me tell you about..., you need to be saved") Too many to count I bet. I grew up in Knoxville. It used to drive me crazy be cause I was Christian just not their kind of Christian. (now I don't know what I am, I'm not sure if I can in good conscience claim any religion.)

 

[JRB]

Actually Britain was the first country to use carpet bombing tactics on villages in Iraq. I guess this was while they occupied the area after WWI and certain villages were rebelling agains british occupation.

Edit: Of course that does not equal hundreds of thousands of Muslims. For some reason I just felt the need to throw out that little tidbit of info.

I used to crap in my pants too, but I don't carry extra drawers any more.


*there is absolutely no room for forgiveness for some people, and that seems wrong to me.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Skared and TN: don't for get the Evanglical part. You know that part where pushing their ideals on others is a strong part of their belief system. Them being fundamental and leaving you alone is not a part of their system...

TN if you live in the Bible Belt, how many times have you been approached and prostalatized (sp?) to by coworkers and acquantiances ("Son, Are you a Christian? Let me tell you about..., you need to be saved") Too many to count I bet. I grew up in Knoxville. It used to drive me crazy be cause I was Christian just not their kind of Christian. (now I don't know what I am, I'm not sure if I can in good conscience claim any religion.)

I just tell them I already have been saved. That usually shuts 'em up.

 

[valve bouncer]

I'm glad this site doesn't have a Political Debate forum. Otherwise all you monkeys would miss out on what the blowhards had to say.

 

[urbaindk]

As a kid it took me a while to learn that...

Them: Are you Christian?
Me: I'm Presbyterian
Them: Oh what's that? Is that like Christian?
Me: Yes
Them: But have you been saved?
Me: Well, no we don't do that exactly.
Them: But are you Christian?
Repeat until you come to blows. That was my experience growing up in the south.

I have a friend who is decidedly aethisist and works in North Georgia and has a lot of interaction with local types. He got so tired of it he bought a bunch of Jesus Saves bumper stickers and pasted them all over his work truck. So now they think he's 'one a them.'

 

[pnj]

I have a friend who is decidedly aethisist and works in North Georgia and has a lot of interaction with local types. He got so tired of it he bought a bunch of Jesus Saves bumper stickers and pasted them all over his work truck. So now they think he's 'one a them.'

be warry of wolves in sheeps clothing....:evil:

 

[urbaindk]

be warry of wolves in sheeps clothing....:evil:

Yeah, He's a walking sacralege! Its awesome.