Quantcast

Falling Dollar - thoughts?

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Interesting editorial - I'm not good with economics at all, but even I can understand the potential dangers if nations like Korea diversify their currency holdings...

I'm curious - does anyone think the rest of the world would potentially create an economic crisis by taking such action? Wouldn't their be repercussions to other nations if they were to make such changes?

Honey, I Shrunk the Dollar
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Published: February 24, 2005

I have just one question about President Bush's trip to Europe: Did he and Laura go shopping?

If they did, I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Laura must have said to George: "George, do you remember how much these Belgian chocolates cost when we were here four years ago? This box of mints was $10. Now it's $15? What happened to the dollar, George? Why is the euro worth so much more now, honey? Didn't Rummy say Europe was old? If we didn't have Air Force One, we never could have afforded this trip on your salary!"

The dollar is falling! The dollar is falling! But the Bush team has basically told the world that unless the markets make the falling dollar into a full-blown New York Stock Exchange crisis and trade war, it is not going to raise taxes, cut spending or reduce oil consumption in ways that could really shrink our budget and trade deficits and reverse the dollar's slide.

This administration is content to let the dollar fall and bet that the global markets will glide the greenback lower in an "orderly" manner.

Right. Ever talk to someone who trades currencies? "Orderly" is not always in the playbook. I make no predictions, but this could start to get very "disorderly." As a former Clinton Commerce Department official, David Rothkopf, notes, despite all the talk about Social Security, many Americans are not really depending on it alone for their retirement. What many Americans are counting on is having their homes retain and increase their value. And what's been fueling the home-building boom and bubble has been low interest rates for a long time. If you see a continuing slide of the dollar - some analysts believe it needs to fall another 20 percent before it stabilizes - you could see a substantial, and painful, rise in interest rates.

"Given the number of people who have refinanced their homes with floating-rate mortgages, the falling dollar is a kind of sword of Damocles, getting closer and closer to their heads," Mr. Rothkopf said. "And with any kind of sudden market disruption - caused by anything from a terror attack to signs that a big country has gotten queasy about buying dollars - the bubble could burst in a very unpleasant way."

Why is that sword getting closer? Because global markets are realizing that we have two major vulnerabilities that this administration doesn't want to address: We are importing too much oil, so the dollar's strength is being sapped as oil prices continue to rise. And we are importing too much capital, because we are saving too little and spending too much, as both a society and a government.

"When people ask what we are doing about these twin vulnerabilities, they have a hard time coming up with an answer," noted Robert Hormats, the vice chairman of Goldman Sachs International. "There is no energy policy and no real effort to reduce our voracious demand of foreign capital. The U.S. pulled in 80 percent of total world savings last year [largely to finance our consumption]." That's a big reason why some "43 percent of all U.S. Treasury bills, notes and bonds are now held by foreigners," Mr. Hormats said.

And the foreign holders of all those bonds are listening to our debate. They are listening to a country that is refusing to raise taxes, and an administration talking about borrowing an additional $2 trillion so Americans can invest some of their Social Security money in stocks. If that happened, it would almost certainly weaken the dollar, further depreciating the U.S. Treasury bonds held by all those foreigners.

On Monday, the Bank of Korea said it planned to diversify more of its reserves into nondollar assets, after years of holding too many low-yielding and depreciating U.S. government securities. The fear that this could become a trend sparked a major sell-off in U.S. equity markets on Tuesday. To calm the markets, the Koreans said the next day that they had no intention of selling their dollars.

Oh, good. Now I'm relieved.

"These countries don't have to dump dollars - they just have to reduce their purchases of them for the dollar to be severely affected," Mr. Hormats noted. "Korea is the fourth-largest holder of dollar reserves. ... You don't want others to see them diversifying and say, 'We'd better do that, too, so that we're not the last ones out.' Remember, the October 1987 stock market crash began with a currency crisis."

When a country lives on borrowed time, borrowed money and borrowed energy, it is just begging the markets to discipline it in their own way at their own time. As I said, usually the markets do it in an orderly way - except when they don't.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,428
0
Charlotte, NC
The saving grace to the down side of that theory is the size and wealth of the US's economy. As the $ declines, things like foreign investment will increase. As will (the word escapes me right now) investment in ourselves. IE.. it will become more expensive to invest, build and do business overseas. Resulting in circulating our own money back into the economy. That alone won't fix things, but I would speculate that it is plenty to keep the perverbial bottom from dropping out.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,908
2,876
Pōneke
It's China and Europe you gotta worry about. Unfortunatly for you guys it has been widely discussed that diversification is now the way to go, expecailly in Europe and Asia.
To be honest I think having one dominant currancy is an undesirable situation in the first place. Having 2 or 3 big players would make things a little more liquid for everyone.
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
Jr_Bullit said:
I'm curious - does anyone think the rest of the world would potentially create an economic crisis by taking such action? Wouldn't their be repercussions to other nations if they were to make such changes?
The fault in this doesn't lie with foreign nations, the entire blame of what WILL come falls on us here at home.

JB, have you ever lent a friend money? Think about this. You know a guy who has been incredibly reliable and well off in the past, but now he needs money for alcohol. In fact, this guy's a drunk, spends all of his dough on alcohol, and you also own the bar he goes to. So, you lend him $100 with the promise that you'll get your money soon, along with little 1% interest payments. You like earning interest on your money and like his bar business, so it's cool. Anyway, once a month you get your $1(ish) of interest and a portion of your money back from the bar. After this goes on for several months, an opportunity to invest some money elsewhere at and interest rate of 20% comes along. What do you do? If you're anything like a foreign gov't, you'll still loan some money to the drunk, but you'll diversify and get in on where the better rates are.

Who's fault is it? The drunk or the bank?
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
reflux said:
The fault in this doesn't lie with foreign nations, the entire blame of what WILL come falls on us here at home.

JB, have you ever lent a friend money? Think about this. You know a guy who has been incredibly reliable and well off in the past, but now he needs money for alcohol. In fact, this guy's a drunk, spends all of his dough on alcohol, and you also own the bar he goes to. So, you lend him $100 with the promise that you'll get your money soon, along with little 1% interest payments. You like earning interest on your money and like his bar business, so it's cool. Anyway, once a month you get your $1(ish) of interest and a portion of your money back from the bar. After this goes on for several months, an opportunity to invest some money elsewhere at and interest rate of 20% comes along. What do you do? If you're anything like a foreign gov't, you'll still loan some money to the drunk, but you'll diversify and get in on where the better rates are.

Who's fault is it? The drunk or the bank?

Yeah I get that, even though I don't lend money out (I already owe plenty myself in student loans :D ).

And I don't exactly "blame" anyone - the US needs to get its chit together and...I dunno, it somehow seems wrong to be in debt so far that you can't conceivably pay it off in a year or two if you knuckle down...(not counting houses which are for most people investments)...
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,428
0
Charlotte, NC
Jr_Bullit said:
And I don't exactly "blame" anyone - the US needs to get its chit together and...I dunno, it somehow seems wrong to be in debt so far that you can't conceivably pay it off in a year or two if you knuckle down...(not counting houses which are for most people investments)...
Ugh.. I honestly hate mentioning such right winged info but it is applicapable here.

It is not the actual size of the debt that is an issue, it is an ability to service the debt. Current data and projections show the US debt decreasing as a % of GDP. For 2005 it is 37.2% of GDP, not really a big #. Remember gov't is investing in itself, kinda like an individual may buy a house. The assumption being that the populus is an ever increasing asset.

A link to some data
http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1944&sequence=0
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
Mtb_Rob_FL said:
Ugh.. I honestly hate mentioning such right winged info but it is applicapable here.

It is not the actual size of the debt that is an issue, it is an ability to service the debt. Current data and projections show the US debt decreasing as a % of GDP. For 2005 it is 37.2% of GDP, not really a big #. Remember gov't is investing in itself, kinda like an individual may buy a house. The assumption being that the populus is an ever increasing asset.

A link to some data
http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1944&sequence=0
But will the US really be able to outgrow this deficit? I'm thinking we should be okay through 2005, maybe 2006, but I'm curious to see what experts see after that.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
68,359
14,542
In a van.... down by the river
Jr_Bullit said:
Yeah I get that, even though I don't lend money out (I already owe plenty myself in student loans :D ).
If you have a savings account you are, in essence, "lending your money." It's just that someone else is doing the actual lending and making a little skim off your cash.

-S.S.-
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
SkaredShtles said:
If you have a savings account you are, in essence, "lending your money." It's just that someone else is doing the actual lending and making a little skim off your cash.

-S.S.-
Yup, and who's going to repay all of the money back that our gov't borrows? It's going to be through taxes one way or another.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
N8 said:
I blame the Saudis and their $40-$50 per barrel oil for this....

but dude!, where is your freedom???? if dont like it, dont buy it! :evil:

its kinda scary too. the US buck has dropped 10% in the last 18 months even compared to the weak peruvian currency.

that will definately in the long run put a dent in the import buypower of the states, thus the lifestyle.

good thing banks here and in panama are now starting to take savings accounts in euros....

on the bright side, my sister will go to grad school in the states this fall.. at a waaay cheaper price than ever (in peruvian currency of course).

if the US bucks falls another 20% as the first post suggests... dude, that´d be heaven!!!!!!!