[Jozz]

For those who enjoy riding in ungroomed (or barely) snow, what are your tires du jour?

I've been on a Surly Bud & Lou combo for 12 years. I need something studded with an agressive thread.

Short (really short) list:

Terrene Johnny 5

Anything else worth my time and dime?

 

[Jm_]

For those who enjoy riding in ungroomed (or barely) snow, what are your tires du jour?

I've been on a Surly Bud & Lou combo for 12 years. I need something studded with an agressive thread.

Short (really short) list:

Terrene Johnny 5

Anything else worth my time and dime?

What are you looking to get out of them?

Local people here gave direct input for the design of the J5 and it's like a B/L that works on ice. It is one of, if not the best, fat tire on ice due to the stud count. Because you can't get a lot of pressure on studs due to the fat tires, the next best thing is load them with studs. IME, stud count and stud exposed length are the two most important factors for traction on ice. As long as we are talking carbide tipped studs, the tip don't matter at all, normal, cupped, tripple-crown, whatever. They like to claim they make a difference, they do not in my experience. A lot of fat tires with studs kinda suck on ice...but they work infinitely better than no studs and that is often about the best you can hope for. They just aren't ever going to be like a skinny tire with studs. The J5 is by far the best in this class though in this respect.

There are other "aggressive" tires like my Wrathchild. Where these fairly spaced-out big lugs help IME is in cold packed snow. That's where the lugs can dig in and give you traction, allowing you to climb some pretty insane stuff (for a fatbike) or dig into turns, etc. That's usually temps in the lower teens and single digits at least, but it's the snow temp that really matters. When it's cold, settled and packed, these are good. But other tires are pretty good in those conditions too. The WC is not very efficient for rolling resistance with those big lugs and that adds up IMO. The Wrathlord looks to be a better compromise, but I haven't tried it. I would not buy the WC again due to how aggressive they are and how little that really helps as far as % of the time.

When it comes to float and soft-snow performance, that's all about casing width and contact patch IME. Tread style is pretty low on the list of things that affect this. Just think for a second, the snow is not bonded together, so your lugs pushing snow will simply slip on the snow that is past them. Yes, you need some lugs, but you need contact patch mainly to get the lugs in contact with the snow. I can't say the tread has ever made a significant difference here. But a 4.5 (actual) tire on a 90mm rim gives an excellent low-pressure profile for soft snow and it doesn't really matter too much what the tire is IME.

I have Cakeeater 27.5x4.5 on my rigid right now and those are about the biggest tire in diameter you can get, they are also wider than J5s, at least on my 95 rims. I don't know what the other guy had, but these dwarfed his J5s in height AND width. These are one of the rare tires that ends up WIDER than claimed. Not every bike can run these though and diameter wise you are close to the Snowshoe 2XLs, which are 26". These are not "fun" to run all the time tho, I'm close to taking them off and putting the D5s on, just because the rolling resistance and so on....but they are aggressive.

I have Bonty 3.8 Gnarwal and I don't know what the wider version is like, but these are very chunky, aggressive tread. I use it for a front tire when racing on real hard pack like mentioned above, but I wouldn't want to run it in the rear due to the chunkiness and that contributing to resistance.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I use Wrathchilds. Just put them on today.

 

[canadmos]

Cakeeater 4.5 in 27.5 came on the new bike and they've been pretty good. Knobs aren't as big as the Minions that I had before, but doesn't seem to matter.

Studded them myself for like $100 or so from https://fatbikes.ca/collections/studs?srsltid=AfmBOooQFm51aK63F_or9aFsu-cYuJizqrdZuqlukIHS6JrWYYx4PP4l with the concave ones.

Studs only in the center tread so off camber ice and turns don't work

 

[Jozz]

I'm not racing so I don't care much about rolling resistance. I'm lightweight and like to run my tires really soft. I hate booting climbs. With the Bud & Lou (studded) I'm able to go out one or two days before other peoples on Cake or D5. I want to replicate that.
Btw, I'll be keeping the Bud in the front, just looking for a rear tire right now.

@Jm_ Are you running your rear D5 backward?

@johnbryanpeters what's your take on the difference between your ols tires and the Wrathchild?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I think I put screw in studs in the Bud and Lou, never liked them. The Wrathchilds just work, occasionally spit a stud, maybe one or two a year, I just replace them.

 

[4xBoy]

I had bontrager gnarwahls with 45nrth xl studs.

Tons of traction, absolute pigs when it is flat though.

 

[Jm_]

I'm not racing so I don't care much about rolling resistance. I'm lightweight and like to run my tires really soft. I hate booting climbs. With the Bud & Lou (studded) I'm able to go out one or two days before other peoples on Cake or D5. I want to replicate that.
Btw, I'll be keeping the Bud in the front, just looking for a rear tire right now.

@Jm_ Are you running your rear D5 backward?

@johnbryanpeters what's your take on the difference between your ols tires and the Wrathchild?

No, I run my D5s in front position, again, rolling resistance.

J5 is exactly what you are describing IME. I was able to go out and ride on days when no one else was. Wasn't always a great idea, the amount of work/mile was absolutely insane...but I was able to ride and not walking.

J5 is close to B/L casing width...but with studs and some aggro lugs.

WC isn't wide enough and doesn't have enough lugs IMO to do this like the J5.

IME, rim plays into this a lot too. An 80mm rim is fairly skinny for this class of tires. Even a D5 works better on at least 90 IME, 75-80 comes on most bikes cause it's cheapest and is optimal for the "4-inch" tire range. Point I'm getting to is that 90 or 95mm (or bigger) rim with a D5 may be better in the soft snow than say a J5 on 75mm. I was doing this early on years ago when most still had the skinny rims and again, I was able to get out and ride more. B/L on truly fat rims was fairly rare. The stability suffers greatly when the rim is narrow and you end up not being able to air down as far. So over-doing it with a big tire doesn't necessarily yield great results. I know, you are doing what you can. Some people around here changed to 65mm rims so they could run D5s when they first came out, because some of the bikes wouldn't clear D5s on 80mm rims. You still get some benefit going to a larger tire...just not as much when the rim width isn't increasing proportionally.

The CE "4.5" x 27.5 is like the J5 for 27.5 tires, bigger than anything else on that wheelsize currently.

 

[6thElement]

@Jm_ Are you running your rear D5 backward?

I run my rear studded D5's in the "reverse" direction to the front as shown on the sidewall. Fat bike I'm not looking to go fast, just enjoy the ride. I've never tried it in the forward orientation.

 

[Jozz]

I should probably let go...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I should probably let go...

View attachment 222648

About two years ago.

 

[Jozz]

I've just put a toob in it to yank a little bit more out of it.

 

[Jm_]

I've just put a toob in it to yank a little bit more out of it.

Have you ever heard of moar sealant?

 

[Jozz]

Have you ever heard of moar sealant?

I think it's past sealantable

 

[Jm_]

I think it's past sealantable

I found this after a race and decided it was time to retire the tires to the bar-bike. But hell, they still held air just fine with moar sealant. I also blew the shock on the race. But godamnit, I won the race.

 

[Jozz]

I think it's past sealantable

@johnbryanpeters when did you acquire those Bud & Lou you sent my way?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

@johnbryanpeters when did you acquire those Bud & Lou you sent my way?

2019, I think. Them must be valuable antiques by now.

 

[Jozz]

Spotted a pair of J5 on marketplace. Price is good, but they ain't studded yet.

Looked at them studs. The Terrene ones seem a lot more expensive than those from 45nrth. Looking at pictures, they seem rather identical...?

 

[Jm_]

Spotted a pair of J5 on marketplace. Price is good, but they ain't studded yet.

Looked at them studs. The Terrene ones seem a lot more expensive than those from 45nrth. Looking at pictures, they seem rather identical...?

Carbide tipped and protruding length are the most important stuff, apart from stud count (which the J5 has). Tip type (cupped, crowned, etc.) is not important IME. Get the most economical that have the right protruding length and carbide tipped.

 

[canadmos]

I was going to get these studs, but didn't want to wait for the shipping times. I think I read somewhere that they are ever so slightly longer than most.

https://www.amazon.ca/Bike-Studs-Aluminum-Anodized-261pcs/dp/B0CK5B276X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KBR0C1EY04UN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.AbgdgHcuqD3E3CCqqES900K-FZ6BePsI3HzxFviOyplTx4rZPiEAS6nUcYz04z4duVVWuwjF1J4pVrA7AO3SI5g2wsyHBuHk6MeG7_KDEjLywis3OgAzHU8KupjspvQARbP431W38Mz-cCMwLMIULdpOeA1LKUOM1Blf7ptFt8rATPM6QOAVu2kSmxLUEq_yfkR9ojm6G4P6SMbbAUjob7_HAWuwiUNRrECwxq0uebfLK31-lg3nN4HCVzzBhXOSA9iiG_SY97F4bK8w00Yw-LR0K2p1WlJIWVCVdoN_4KA.LMGh1WzF4ZIWcFSu7EXupPMQETDQhUaQZXawwYXjdNg&dib_tag=se&keywords=billy%2Bflamingo%2Bbike%2Bstuds&qid=1733423942&s=sports&sprefix=billy%2Bflamingo%2Bbike%2Bstuds%2Csporting%2C67&sr=1-1&th=1

Ended up getting these from the place below ($30 for 100):

FBC Concave Carbide Tire Studs

Fat Bikes Canada Concave Stud Packs Looking for great bite on ice for an affordable price? Check out our FBC Concave High Traction stud kits. We work directly with the top Tire stud manufacturers to bring you this solid size and profile Carbide stud. Like our HEX studs, these are designed to...

fatbikes.ca

The Terrene Triple Crown ones look nice too, but are $$$$ ($79 for 100):

Terrene Triple Crown Studs

Terrene Triple Crown Studs The sharpest points, the tallest stud, and the largest surface area create the highest-traction stud on the market. Aluminum base, tungsten carbide tip 100 studs

fatbikes.ca

 

[Jozz]

2019, I think. Them must be valuable antiques by now.

My other set was 2013. They lasted 10 years.

 

[Jozz]

I was going to get these studs, but didn't want to wait for the shipping times. I think I read somewhere that they are ever so slightly longer than most.

https://www.amazon.ca/Bike-Studs-Aluminum-Anodized-261pcs/dp/B0CK5B276X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KBR0C1EY04UN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.AbgdgHcuqD3E3CCqqES900K-FZ6BePsI3HzxFviOyplTx4rZPiEAS6nUcYz04z4duVVWuwjF1J4pVrA7AO3SI5g2wsyHBuHk6MeG7_KDEjLywis3OgAzHU8KupjspvQARbP431W38Mz-cCMwLMIULdpOeA1LKUOM1Blf7ptFt8rATPM6QOAVu2kSmxLUEq_yfkR9ojm6G4P6SMbbAUjob7_HAWuwiUNRrECwxq0uebfLK31-lg3nN4HCVzzBhXOSA9iiG_SY97F4bK8w00Yw-LR0K2p1WlJIWVCVdoN_4KA.LMGh1WzF4ZIWcFSu7EXupPMQETDQhUaQZXawwYXjdNg&dib_tag=se&keywords=billy%2Bflamingo%2Bbike%2Bstuds&qid=1733423942&s=sports&sprefix=billy%2Bflamingo%2Bbike%2Bstuds%2Csporting%2C67&sr=1-1&th=1

Ended up getting these from the place below ($30 for 100):

FBC Concave Carbide Tire Studs

Fat Bikes Canada Concave Stud Packs Looking for great bite on ice for an affordable price? Check out our FBC Concave High Traction stud kits. We work directly with the top Tire stud manufacturers to bring you this solid size and profile Carbide stud. Like our HEX studs, these are designed to...

fatbikes.ca

The Terrene Triple Crown ones look nice too, but are $$$$ ($79 for 100):

Terrene Triple Crown Studs

Terrene Triple Crown Studs The sharpest points, the tallest stud, and the largest surface area create the highest-traction stud on the market. Aluminum base, tungsten carbide tip 100 studs

fatbikes.ca

The Terrene are those I was looking at. The 45nrth are close to half price. I'll looked into the actual measurements like @Jm_ Suggested.

 

[Jm_]

The Terrene are those I was looking at. The 45nrth are close to half price. I'll looked into the actual measurements like @Jm_ Suggested.

lol, that's the Trek store owner's brand here. His name is Bill, so that's why it's Billy Flamingo (not his last name, but similar). He has those colored ones, same as other standard ones, just colored. He's a great guy and has put on a lot of cool stuff for the community. He did the Iditarod to Nome last year too.