[weimie]

I think the best thing that ever happened to me was out at Bromont, after a full day of riding the day before, going out on my first run the next morning I had hand and arm pump so bad that I couldn't use my brakes very well. I had no strength in my hands, couldn't lay on the brakes like usual....I HAD to go fast through the rocks and I "saw the light" so to speak. I was absolutely amazed!

Speed lets your tires cruise on top of the rocks, no speed means your tires will fall in between the rocks and cause very bad things to happen.

 

[redFoxx]

Great stuff, thanks guys! I can't wait to get out of this damn office and try out the suggestions I've gotten here.

I know I can be fast as give me pavement or smooth trail and I'm hell bent for leather and even my bf won't go that fast but he's way ahead on the rough stuff. I definitely have found that obstacles are best taken at a higher rate of speed too especially since I can't pull a bunny hop out of my bag of tricks...

 

[stephanie]

Great stuff, thanks guys! I can't wait to get out of this damn office and try out the suggestions I've gotten here.

I know I can be fast as give me pavement or smooth trail and I'm hell bent for leather and even my bf won't go that fast but he's way ahead on the rough stuff. I definitely have found that obstacles are best taken at a higher rate of speed too especially since I can't pull a bunny hop out of my bag of tricks...

so ironic, because i get skeebed out on pavement/fire roads. my b/f and i climbed a road called Viejas Grade last night, and got to bomb down it...of course, i white knuckled the whole way. but, give me fast singletrack and i'm fine !

 

[redFoxx]

That's funny - you're like my bf and I can't understand why he doesn't like it rip in those places. It's such a rush! And falling is not an option. Maybe that's what you tell yourself on the singletrack....

 

[amydalayna]

riding on the road scares the poo out of me.
i think pavement hurts more than dirt.

 

[stephanie]

at whistler last year, there is a blue (intermediate) trail on the top called "**** Bear" or something. It's a fire road and my friends ripped down it. I made my brake burn (could smell them)! Scared the s**t out of me!

 

[redFoxx]

I guess because I haven't fallen yet on pavement or fire road I don't think about the consequences - all that runs through my mind is that falling is not an option and feeling that intense exhileration. But I certainly have crashed on singletrack and I'm always looking suspiciously at the trees and rocks which are wanting to grab me!

Maybe that's my problem, I'm looking at where I'll fall instead of down the trail. This is especially true on very sharp loose rocky switchbacks with exposure. My eyes are drawn to the dropoff and not looking ahead to the corner. I've started training to retrain myself to look down the trail and not at the potential obstacles.

 

[amydalayna]

bwahhh ha ha.
you race pro dh, but those crazyyyy fire roads do you in?

I know how it is.
last night i was riding back home from riding in the woods and I had to fly down this one super steep road. the whole time i was thinking, "it is sooooooo going to hurt if I wipe out right now if I flatted"
i could never be a road rider. i don't have it in me.

 

[stephanie]

bwahhh ha ha.
you race pro dh, but those crazyyyy fire roads do you in?

I know how it is.
last night i was riding back home from riding in the woods and I had to fly down this one super steep road. the whole time i was thinking, "it is sooooooo going to hurt if I wipe out right now if I flatted"
i could never be a road rider. i don't have it in me.

yep, sounds crazy, doesn't it?! when i first started riding (XC) there were no open fire roads where i rode, just tight rocky singletrack. a lot of my friends who grew up riding on the west coast (where fire roads abound and/or who raced at places like big bear) are way more comfortable on the open fire roads.

the feeling of drifting to the outside of a fire road corner FREAKS me out!!!

 

[stephanie]

I guess because I haven't fallen yet on pavement or fire road I don't think about the consequences - all that runs through my mind is that falling is not an option and feeling that intense exhileration. But I certainly have crashed on singletrack and I'm always looking suspiciously at the trees and rocks which are wanting to grab me!

Maybe that's my problem, I'm looking at where I'll fall instead of down the trail. This is especially true on very sharp loose rocky switchbacks with exposure. My eyes are drawn to the dropoff and not looking ahead to the corner. I've started training to retrain myself to look down the trail and not at the potential obstacles.

you hit on a really important point...looking ahead is critical. keeping your head up is hard to do, especially being drawn down to obstacles. when in a turn, exaggerate turning your head (even more important when wearing a dh/moto helmet because your view is partially obscured), and the rest of your body should follow.

 

[mohshee]

I found that one thing that particularly helped me was taking the motorcycle safety class. I was taking it just as I was learning to mountainbike and they really iterate the importance of looking where you want to go, choosing your line, and keeping your head up, never down (especially on the speedometer or to check what gear you are in) -- it was really all about "being one" with the bike, and learning to feel the turns and such. Anyways, when I started xc, a lot of those skills really crossed over and are so important.

I find some of the most difficulty I have is looking past jumps that I get air on. No matter what, I always seem to look down which ALWAYS cuts my landing really short. My hubby decided the other day to place a stick on this particular tabletop jump and he placed it further and further from where I would land. It helped to actually have the stick to look at and inevitably, I would land on the stick, it didn't matter how far or close it was from the takeoff. Weird.

 

[redFoxx]

I was talking to one guy on Saturday who goes to the local Flow Park (jump area) and is a good rider who I admire for his technical skills and we were talking about what scares us. He says that he's afraid of the dirt jumps but that he can do drops no problem. I found that funny as I am afraid of drops but will take on a dirt jump. To me, a drop looks sinister as you can't always see it fully and a dirt jump looks innocuous, just alittle bump in the trail plus you can choose to do it big or small.... but for him a drop is easy as it requires nothing special to go over, just that moment of commit, whereas with a dirt jump he felt he needed to be doing something in the air to get it right and that freaked him out.

At first I was thinking people are afraid of what they've crashed the most or hardest on but I'm not sure that's true, as my worst crash was on a dirt jump. I haven't tried that particular dirt jump since my crash but I've done others since then, yet drops, even though I've never crashed on one, give me a sense of foreboding.

I think though that by facing the "scary one" it ceases to be like that, so my goal is to concentrate on drops and have them become just a "change in elevation" as someone put it. So this past weekend I started practising looking for small drops to go over - hey, I consider a l/2 foot drop to be a legitimate drill! Things I would just roll over before I now am trying to drop...drop correctly that is, without a nose dive.

Just wondering about this... How many people go back and do the thing they crashed on? It's bugging me that I haven't gone back and shown that dirt jump who's boss after I was bucked off of it last year. :redhot:

 

[stephanie]

The two worst crashes I've had were a result of going off a drop (and knowing virtually nothing about the finer points of riding at the time). One happened at Sea Otter in 05 and the other at Whistler (also in 05). I've been back to Sea Otter, but the ladder didn't exist anymore, and I (unfortunately) haven't been back to Whistler yet.

I feel the same way about drops. They scare me. I can do drops from flat (and land flat) just fine, but any height over 3 feet or so makes flat landings pretty harsh. Drops that land on a slope are pretty scary for me, as that's the kind of drops I crashed on. I've been working my way up, and have been able to do angled drops that have gotten up to about 2-3 feet. The progression is slow, but I feel like over the past year, I've gotten more comfortable on my bike, in general (body positioning, etc).

I like the thinking that drops are just a change in elevation, though. That makes it easier.

 

[redFoxx]

Well we went to the Flow Park last night and I did my nemesis, the dirt jump that threw me off a year ago. I am so glad I finally got that out of the way. I just took it slow and sure enough, it did the familiar popping my front end up steeply and then the rear end pops up sending me into a nose first landing. It's a weird one and now I have to figure out how to control it, not let it control me! I'm not sure how to level out in the air and land both wheels with such a kicker. If anybody has advice, I'd appreciate it.

My goal last night was to do one new thing that I haven't done yet this year... last year I had a full suspension downhill bike, this year I have a hardtail DJ bike so it was like starting over.....

Our goal last night was no carnage and we succeeded. Stopping when we were tired and not going beyond. There's always the syndrome of "one more run" and that's when you don't want to try a new or risky thing!

 

[weimie]

Congrats on going back and doing what was dogging you! I like the whole idea of trying something new everytime you ride. Works for me.

Last night we went tooling around our neighborhood looking for drops to hit. Ended up at a school where the had some steps to jump. I started out small, did a 2 step drop, then a 4 step drop then a
6 step drop! I was shaking so bad before the 6 step drop! But I made sure I had plenty of speed, didn't touch the brakes and cleared them all! I was soooo proud of myself

Tonight we're hitting the dirt jumps for one final ride before Angel Fire. I'm so geeked!

 

[amydalayna]

i didn't realize there was something i did i hit drops until this past sunday.
i got a new trail bike and there was this one log drop i was trying out the new rig on.
i had my husband just watch and tell me what i could be doing differently. he said... 'open your eyes for one. you flinch when you hit the drop.'
how not safe is that? and i had no idea i even did that.

 

[redFoxx]

Congrats on going back and doing what was dogging you! I like the whole idea of trying something new everytime you ride. Works for me.

Last night we went tooling around our neighborhood looking for drops to hit. Ended up at a school where the had some steps to jump. I started out small, did a 2 step drop, then a 4 step drop then a
6 step drop! I was shaking so bad before the 6 step drop! But I made sure I had plenty of speed, didn't touch the brakes and cleared them all! I was soooo proud of myself

Tonight we're hitting the dirt jumps for one final ride before Angel Fire. I'm so geeked!

Thanks! I kept telling myself I had to go back to it so I could say in RM that I did it. Good motivation. I have a whole list of things I want to work on, so each time I try and pick something from my list.

Wow, stairs! Good job. These weren't stairs drop to flat, were they? I have a hardtail so jumping stairs sounds alot more comfortable than rolling down them like I do now, feet popping off the pedals. It's fun to start looking at urban things as freeride opportunities!

Yeah speed.... I started thinking about getting more speed over stuff. I took my one drop I do last night at speed and it felt alot better. I usually go really slow and then have to make sure I get the front end popped up enough to land right. Also, I was keeping in mind advice to keep my chin up so I'm looking at the line beyond, not the jump. No closing eyes...

 

[redFoxx]

Hey weimie, I just looked at your pics in velobella and that is a sweet looking hardtail! What Kona is that? Is that a custom color?

You weren't at the famous Ray's indoor park in Ohio were you?

 

[weimie]

Hey weimie, I just looked at your pics in velobella and that is a sweet looking hardtail! What Kona is that? Is that a custom color?

You weren't at the famous Ray's indoor park in Ohio were you?

It's a Kona Chute that my friend custom painted. I love that bike!

And yes those pics are from Ray's. I used to live in Michigan and during the winter we had nothing to ride so we'd go there just about every weekend (only a 3 1/2 hr drive). Ray's is so cool...I learned so much riding there. It has everything...stunts, bridges, drops jumps, a pump track and a foam pit (which is so fun). It's about the only thing I miss about living on the East coast.

These weren't stairs drop to flat, were they?

Yeah they were. And they're not as hard as you would think but you need the speed to get the distance. And I learned last night that you need to center yourself on your bike instead of getting way over the rear tire when doing drops.

open your eyes for one

I make funny faces when I jump....it seems to help for some reason :wonky2:

 

[redFoxx]

And yes those pics are from Ray's. I used to live in Michigan and during the winter we had nothing to ride so we'd go there just about every weekend (only a 3 1/2 hr drive). Ray's is so cool...I learned so much riding there. It has everything...stunts, bridges, drops jumps, a pump track and a foam pit (which is so fun). It's about the only thing I miss about living on the East coast.

So now you're doing 360's because they had a foam pit, right?

 

[GrapeApe79]

Just wondering about this... How many people go back and do the thing they crashed on? It's bugging me that I haven't gone back and shown that dirt jump who's boss after I was bucked off of it last year. :redhot:

You need to go back and do that dirt jump when you are ready! It will give you an amazing feeling when you conquer it, which to me is one of the main reasons why I ride. Hey--was that your nemesis that you conquered the other day? If so, nice job!!!

 

[redFoxx]

You need to go back and do that dirt jump when you are ready! It will give you an amazing feeling when you conquer it, which to me is one of the main reasons why I ride. Hey--was that your nemesis that you conquered the other day? If so, nice job!!!

Yes, I did go back on Tuesday night and did it twice - can't believe it took me so long. I am more cautious about what speed I'm taking it at ...

Now I can add it to the repertoire of what I do there. It's a real kicker, too, as I felt it launch me up and then the nose started coming down but I still landed okay.

 

[GrapeApe79]

Oh, sorry redFoxx--note to self...read the entire forum before responding!! Anyway, great job!

Regarding drops...I was really having a problem with drops due to not being able to land both wheels at the same time and nose diving (as you might remember from my wheelies and manuals forum). I just started practicing like weimie has been doing--first being sure I could land both wheels at the same time going off a curb, then graduating to stairs. After everything that people were telling me about how to get both wheels to land, it just took practice. I think its something about leaning back, squashing the rear suspension (sorry redFoxx, I know that doesn't help you), and throwing your feet forward. But that feeling when you land a drop cleanly, gives me the greatest sense of gratification!

For those in the PNW, I think Tiger Mtn is a great place to practice. There are tons of "flingers" (.5" to 2.5" changes in elevation). I used to roll over them, and now I just fling off them and land the wheels at the same time. And there are a ton of them, so its a good way to get that muscle memory firing!

 

[redFoxx]

Yeah muscle memory - that's it exactly! I am just starting to get my jump position and it feels great when a jump is hit right and nothing creaks or groans, including me!

Here's my steps to going over something:

Chin Up - I look beyond to where I'm going to be landing once I've picked my launch-off point.
Get in the Back Seat - Good stand over pedals and butt back off the seat (I know weimie mentioned being centered over the bike but I'm definitely back from my usual stance on the bike)
Arms Stretched - kind of pushing bike forward
Frog Position - elbows and knees out and bent

I'm mostly manualing over, but when I am going slower, I have to preload and pop the front end up more. I guess it depends if I'm going for amplitude (distance traveled) or height what I do just before.

I agree, Tiger has thousands of launch points. Now I'm always looking for stuff in the trail on a XC ride to get air on.

 

[weimie]

So now you're doing 360's because they had a foam pit, right?

sure am

 

[weimie]

What's the advice from the Expert/Pro ladies out there on positioning for drops? Stay centered on your bike or get you butt back over the rear wheel? Guess it would depend on what kind of drop your doing.

I felt a lot more in control and the impact was way less harsh when I was centered over my bike as opposed to way over my rear.

 

[stephanie]

i think body position will vary slightly depending on the drop height, run in, and run out. but in general, a neutral position is best, with your weight centered and/or slightly back. forward = bad.

also, try to master the art of throwing your front wheel off of the drop just a little. it is such a subtle move but will keep your front wheel from diving. it took me a while to get this down, but once i did, it made drops so much less scary (i was notorious for front end diving over drops)! my drops have gotten better over time, mainly by learning to keep more centered or just a bit back and pushing out with my arms.

hope this helps. i still get skeebed out on steep landings/trannies though, so if anyone has advice for that, i'd appreciate it

 

[redFoxx]

also, try to master the art of throwing your front wheel off of the drop just a little. it is such a subtle move but will keep your front wheel from diving. it took me a while to get this down, but once i did, it made drops so much less scary (i was notorious for front end diving over drops)! my drops have gotten better over time, mainly by learning to keep more centered or just a bit back and pushing out with my arms.

Hey Stephanie, can you explain this a bit more. Are you pulling up on the front wheel? What do you mean by "throw your front wheel"?

 

[bluebug32]

i'm not scared of crashing. i wear lots o' pads for that.
i hate to admit it, but i'm more scare of losing face. i hate crashing in front of people.

I definitely feel the same way. I always ride with a group of guys and I feel like I have to stay tough because, rather they admit it or not, they're competing against one another. I have pads I wear, but sometimes I feel like a hockey goalie when I'm just going out for an XC ride. But if I don't wear them, I tend to get hurt. I feel like a really fearful girl, however, when I wear them so I'm constantly going through a battle over whether I should wear the pads or tough it out.

 

[Snacks]

I never wear pads on XC rides. I do crash, but usually not bad enough to wear them for the next ride Of all my 'bad' crashes the pads wouldn't have saved me one bit.

Not to hate, but I don't know how people wear them on XC rides....they are hot and bulky:hot:

 

[redFoxx]

I always wear pads and I don't even notice them anymore even though I absolutely don't like to be hot. I basically have to as I always use flat pedals and they will give you nasty puncture wounds if you aren't careful. In my group of friends, who are all guys, some wear pads and some don't. I don't see it as a fearful girl thing at all, you must ride with a hardcore lot, BlueBug! There's one guy who doesn't wear them very often and his legs look like it with those puncture wound scars (I call them snake bites), another guy doesn't and he's okay.

It just depends on what happens when you don't wear them. And I'm like you BB, when I don't wear them, something happens. I'm always trying technical things and I have pedals that bite so they're on. I have two pair so when one is airing/drying out, the other is ready to wear.

 

[bluebug32]

What pads do you wear?

I have knee/shin and then elbow pads too

The funny thing is that I've never actually fallen with the pads on and then the one time I'll take them off, that's when I fall.

 

[redFoxx]

What pads do you wear?

I have knee/shin and then elbow pads too

The funny thing is that I've never actually fallen with the pads on and then the one time I'll take them off, that's when I fall.

That's how it goes! Wearing pads is just like wearing a talisman. You're protected by an unseen force...

I have the 661's, both elbow and leg. I wear the leg ones all the time, the elbows only when jumping or a tight technical tree-heavy trail. I went through a number of pads, also had the Roach (I think they are or else Race Face) DH ones with the plastic parts on but they were too big (at the smallest size I could find) and chafed alot! The 661's were the most comfortable and even so, I wear an Ace bandage on both knees to prevent chafing. They also have wrap around material in the back which is needed for the flat pedals... I would really love to find Junior size DH (meaning they wrap around in back) pads but they are hard to find... it's a pet peeve of mine trying to find pads that fit and don't chafe.

Now the one thing I really hate wearing because it's so hot is a full-face helmet. How many wear theirs regularly?

 

[amydalayna]

Not to hate, but I don't know how people wear them on XC rides....they are hot and bulky:hot:

i have the 661 veggie knee pads for xc. they're warm, but i feel better with them. and you never know when you might come up on something cool in the trail that wasn't there before.
i hate saying, "i'll come back and hit that when i've got my pads on".

 

[amydalayna]

Now the one thing I really hate wearing because it's so hot is a full-face helmet. How many wear theirs regularly?

don't really wear it regularly. but there are plenty of rides out here where you climb for an hour or more and then have a good DH. I bring the full face and climb without a helmet. but the climb is at a snail's pace.

 

[Snacks]

i have the 661 veggie knee pads for xc. they're warm, but i feel better with them. and you never know when you might come up on something cool in the trail that wasn't there before.
i hate saying, "i'll come back and hit that when i've got my pads on".

Those are nice and flexible for riding. I have full lower bibs and a jacket for DH, plus a set of knee/shin pads, and elbow/arm pads....but I only where those when dj'ing.

Did you all start wearig pads when you first started riding?

 

[redFoxx]

I feel naked without my pads on now. Yeah I know, I sound like a Quaker but I don't like having any skin showing!

I had a friend up at Whistler last year - she had on girlie shorts, minimal leg pads. She went over one of the bigger skills jumps and on the landing she relaxed, crashed and totally raked her skin with the gravel there. Needless to say she was in the ER getting all that tweezered out. Made for some gruesome pics as well.

 

[amydalayna]

when i first start riding? no. but then i took some dumb falls on my knees. and when that happens i can't ride for a bit.
so i wear the soft pads at the bmx track/ on xc. and the roach pads when i dh. the only pads i sometimes wish i had are some hip protection. i seem to always smash my left hip.

 

[stephanie]

Hey Stephanie, can you explain this a bit more. Are you pulling up on the front wheel? What do you mean by "throw your front wheel"?

i'll try, but it's hard to describe. when you approach the lip of the drop, i kind of yank on my bars as if i am trying to pop a wheelie. that's the best way i can describe it. so many people always told me to do this, but until i kind of did it by accident, i never really knew what it felt like.

so yes, pull on your bars like you're trying to wheelie...does that help?

when you do it correctly, you'll know because your front wheel won't dive as much.

 

[stephanie]

i have the 661 veggie knee pads for xc. they're warm, but i feel better with them. and you never know when you might come up on something cool in the trail that wasn't there before.
i hate saying, "i'll come back and hit that when i've got my pads on".

i have the 661 tomcats: http://www.sixsixone.com/catalog.aspx?id=6ab77050-aa89-407c-b153-832d38da6ecc&pl=BIKE

they are similar to the veggie, but a little more hard protection for your knees, but yet not so bulky that they impact your pedaling.

i wear them when i race and i've occasionally smacked my shins on things, but the freedom of motion they allow me is worth the sacrifice.