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Fed wants your DNA

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
A mug-shot and a set of finger-prints won't be enough at the booking desk anymore.

The government is demanding DNA as well.

"The attorney general is directing all agencies of the United States that arrest or detain individuals or supervise individuals facing charges to collect DNA samples from
individuals who are arrested, facing charges, or convicted, and from non-United States persons who are detained under the authority of the United States...''

So goes the notice in the Federal Register.

It stems from the requirements of the DNA Fingerprint Act of 2005 and the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006.

Agencies that collect DNA will have to submit it to the FBI.

Now, DNA has served to absolve some people - including Death Row convicts - of the crimes they were accused of committing.

But this is an intriguing new data base for the government to control.

And, so long as you don't get arrested, the government won't have your DNA.
I think this is a great idea and I'd even go so far as to approve of it at birth.

The key thing is, only the results should be kept. No actual organic material that can be planted in a future crime.

There was a guy here who was recently released from jail cuz it was proven that the district attorney falsified all sorts of "facts". I know it's a tin-foil hat idea, but framing people does happen, so destroy the organic, keep the results.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
I think the less the government knows about me the better
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
4
i only believe that humankind is altruistic - or at least decent - when they believe there exists a potential to being watched, tracked, or cataloged
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
16,517
3,533
I have no idea where I am
So what's the next stop on the Big Brother Bus line?

Some computer chips for tracking, er, protecting citizen freedom.

Soon no one will be allowed to mind their own damn business.









LO will ask me, "How's business" in 5, 4, 3 , 2
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
Slippery slope much?

I agree that future technology makes it potentially scary, but how is DNA that much different than finger prints?


I didn't see Gattaca.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,847
0
Orange County, CA
Now, I wonder how the Supreme Court and their "strict constructionists" will go about ruling on this when it eventually gets there.

It seems to me to be in violation of the fourth amendment. Giving over your DNA without a warrant I would think is an unreasonable search. Of course, considering how the fourth amendment has been totally eviscerated anyways, I don't think it will matter too much...
 

Upgr8r

High Priest or maybe Jedi Master
May 2, 2006
942
0
Ventura, CA
Slippery slope much?

I agree that future technology makes it potentially scary, but how is DNA that much different than finger prints?


I didn't see Gattaca.
They can't have it as I'm using my DNA at the moment to create my super-soldier clones. They should be ready in about six months.

Seriously, watch Gattaca. It's a great movie and it brings up some intersting questions
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
16,517
3,533
I have no idea where I am
Slippery slope much?

I agree that future technology makes it potentially scary, but how is DNA that much different than finger prints?
Difference is not the real concern here. It's another step in long series of actions that result in the further stripping away of our rights. People tend not to notice a long drawn out process as opposed to a swift and final action. It's similar to soil erosion vs a tsunami in regards to the outcome, different rates, same end result.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
There is no way the government needs to take the DNA of a unvoluntary innocent (innocent until CONVICTED) citizen. As a biologist, I'm actually considering joining the ACLU over this.

You can always give your DNA voluntarily to rule a person out as a suspect. If they keep it on file, it will only be used to negatively affect you when fishing for people.

Plus, you really have so much faith in government networks that the info will safe and not altered??

How about when insurance companies want a piece so they can charge people predispositioned to disease more than those with better genetics.

You do not want people having your DNA anymore than a chip implanted in your head. At least I don't.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
There is no way the government needs to take the DNA of a unvoluntary innocent (innocent until CONVICTED) citizen. As a biologist, I'm actually considering joining the ACLU over this.

You can always give your DNA voluntarily to rule a person out as a suspect. If they keep it on file, it will only be used to negatively affect you when fishing for people.

Plus, you really have so much faith in government networks that the info will safe and not altered??

How about when insurance companies want a piece so they can charge people predispositioned to disease more than those with better genetics.

You do not want people having your DNA anymore than a chip implanted in your head. At least I don't.
Agreed.
I don't like this one iota.
 

ATOMICFIREBALL

DISARMED IN A BATTLE OF WITS
May 26, 2004
1,354
0
Tennessee
That's an unbeleivably great movie IMO. I can't believe it isn't a cult classic or talked about more.
How about that one movie where they people think they are living in this big city,but really they are just in a huge fake underground place in the desert !! That is creepy.
What was that movie called ?
 

limitedslip

Monkey
Jul 11, 2007
173
1
Once you have a large DNA database to check against, you will end up with plenty of matches for each crime, between 100-1000 in the US, depending on the quality of the sample. Being in the same state as the crime would immediately make you a suspect, and you would have to prove your innocence. A lot of innocent people would be harassed and imprisoned by this.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
Once you have a large DNA database to check against, you will end up with plenty of matches for each crime, between 100-1000 in the US, depending on the quality of the sample. Being in the same state as the crime would immediately make you a suspect, and you would have to prove your innocence. A lot of innocent people would be harassed and imprisoned by this.
Is it much different than finger prints?
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
Is it much different than finger prints?
It doesn't matter if it's different or not. There are enough examples (1 is too many) of "Case Fixing" or wrongful imprisonment that this is DNA database sh*t is just too much. If the cops can get a warrant for DNA, great. They did their homework. They have their reasons. If not, stay the hell away from my saliva.

Fingerprints are one thing. But once you start being able to have a large inventory of *really* personal info, the opportunity for abuse skyrockets.

I'm with Spin on this one, the insurance industry will go freakin' bananas over something like this.

Sickle cell anemia...that'll be 1,000 bucks extra. Ooooo...there's the signal for high cholesterol...that'll be 3 g's. kthxbai.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
Except that DNA has proven convicted people as innocent and it's easier to fake fingerprints in frame than DNA when all you have access to is the data.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
Except that DNA has proven convicted people as innocent and it's easier to fake fingerprints in frame than DNA when all you have access to is the data.
Refer to:

Secret Squirrel said:
the insurance industry will go freakin' bananas over something like this.

Sickle cell anemia...that'll be 1,000 bucks extra. Ooooo...there's the signal for high cholesterol...that'll be 3 g's. kthxbai.
Hell, even big business will want a piece of this. And since gov't and them are like 2 big dogs humping on the lawn, it's not a far stretch that something will go awry. Look how well the war has benefitted Cheney's last company.

Don't be dense.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
THis is a huge George wilian trap. The governtment and industry is going to sell it to you as safety to avoid and identify terrorists (because everything we do now is in the name of terrorism.)

THis will also say we need your kids DNA to help them get services and in the case they go missing.

YOU CAN ALWAYS PROVIDE DNA LATER for defensive or investigative purposes.

The bottom line do you really trust them with information more personal than your social security number?? Even senator obama's data was violated and leaked and it will definitely get leaked and abused. ONly question is by who and how hard will it be to get out of it, ie. do you just pay 100k more in insurance for a misunderstanding or 30 days in jail until they can prove the data base was hacked??
 

limitedslip

Monkey
Jul 11, 2007
173
1
Except that DNA has proven convicted people as innocent and it's easier to fake fingerprints in frame than DNA when all you have access to is the data.
The difference is that in that case you already have a suspect, or a convict, and you are checking it against the crime scene sample, so that is incredibly accurate and fine. If instead you check the crime scene sample against the US population, you will end up with 100-1000 hits. If I was in that database, I would want an alibi at all times, especially considering that prosecutors really don't give a **** whether you are innocent or not, and just want a conviction. They have been known to withhold innocence-proving evidence at trial.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
THis is a huge Orwellian trap. The governtment and industry is going to sell it to you as safety to avoid and identify terrorists (because everything we do now is in the name of terrorism.)

THis will also say we need your kids DNA to help them get services and in the case they go missing.

YOU CAN ALWAYS PROVIDE DNA LATER for defensive or investigative purposes.

The bottom line do you really trust them with information more personal than your social security number?? Even senator obama's data was violated and leaked and it will definitely get leaked and abused. ONly question is by who and how hard will it be to get out of it, ie. do you just pay 100k more in insurance for a misunderstanding or 30 days in jail until they can prove the data base was hacked??
Heh...I'm a panty-waist...I know.
 

limitedslip

Monkey
Jul 11, 2007
173
1
Refer to:



Hell, even big business will want a piece of this. And since gov't and them are like 2 big dogs humping on the lawn, it's not a far stretch that something will go awry. Look how well the war has benefitted Cheney's last company.

Don't be dense.
If they don't keep the samples, there isn't any danger of this, since the gene tags they use for DNA fingerprinting don't contain any info like that. Of course, once you have the simple DNA fingerprint database, the next step down the slope will be a DNA sample database.
 

splat

Nam I am
OK , This is a Slippery Slope , while I have never been arrested , the FBI has 4 sets of my Finger Prints already, I needed and Got a security Clearence, is this saying now that DNA will be required for that as well ? will they start taking a DNA sample , At Birth along with the Foot print ? it goes on and on.

However I guess You can use the case , if you are a law abiding citizen , you have nothing to fear.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
However I guess You can use the case , if you are a law abiding citizen , you have nothing to fear.
I hope you're being sarcastic or a devil's advocate because every race ever enslaved or killed were passive enough to believe that. Ask the Germans, Serbs, Bolsheviks, Sudanese, American Indians and others that a history major could probably rattle off the top of their heads.

DNA is the most powerfull force on the planet in so many ways.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,847
0
Orange County, CA
I hope you're being sarcastic or a devil's advocate because every race ever enslaved or killed were passive enough to believe that. Ask the Germans, Serbs, Bolsheviks, Sudanese, American Indians and others that a history major could probably rattle off the top of their heads.
A history major probably wouldn't have included the Bolsheviks as a people or race...

(A history major also would have noted that the Bolsheviks were on the winning side of a revolution...but I digress.)
 

Lowlight7

Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
357
0
Virginia, USA
Hoopla.

If you are arrested for a crime, your fingerprints are taken and kept in a file. Even if you are later proven innocent, your fingerprints are still on file.

CODIS has several indexes, a Missing Persons index, a Convicted Offender index, an Arestee index, and a Forensic index. The forensic index contains unidentified genetic material recovered from crime scenes.

CODIS does not store name or personal info. It stores a serial number, an ID number for the lab that processed the genetic material, and the markers for the material itself. It does not contain the specific DNA info for identifying race, sex, family ties, etc. CODIS only produces a possible list of matches. Each match must be confirmed by a licensed DNA analyst. It's actually quicker and easier to check finger prints...

Each state chooses what crimes and convictions they deem appropriate for collecting genetic material and including it in CODIS. Many limit it to a felony with a penalty of 15 years or more.

I should probably add that the labs are real deal genetic research institutes, not some "Pee in this cup" or "Help me find my baby daddy!" shops. They, as well as the analysts that handle CODIS, must be federally certified.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
4
How about when insurance companies want a piece so they can charge people predispositioned to disease more than those with better genetics.
next thing you know, ins. companies are going to give you quotes (or drop policies) based upon your driving record, or previous health issues, or lifestyles.