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Federal ID cards, who's on board?

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,354
Jimtown, CO
deffinelty not me. seems a little too Orwellian for my taste. plus i dont trust big bro....er...capitol hill. whats next biometrics?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
reflux said:
I always thought Republicans were supposed to be against a large and powerful government? Am I missing something?
You must not have gotten the memo...they are the small government party when a Democrat is President.
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,354
Jimtown, CO
caboverpete said:
How would a federal ID card differ that much from a social security card... maybe just slap a picture on the SS card. I dont see much harm in that.
they will have a chip in them that stores personal data.
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
Silver said:
You must not have gotten the memo...they are the small government party when a Democrat is President.
Actually I think I got the memo, though I must've left my Republican Party decoder ring at home because nothing made any sense.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,406
22,489
Sleazattle
I could care less about the big brother side of it, it does not really change much of what the gov can do. What it does do is force the states again to spend more money without the Feds giving them any. It also puts a twist on immigration rules preventing illegals from getting licensed. The gov has made it much harder for people to become legal residents since 9-11 but has done nothing to prevent them from coming into the country or removing them from the country. It just makes illegal residents even more illegal, making it even harder to track them and giving them less incentive to get things like auto insurance that acutally benefit everyone else.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,912
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The biometric data included on the chip will make the databases you see in shows like CSI a step closer to reality. Question is, does that bother you, is it worth the money it will cost to introduce, will it actually 'help' with the 'threat' you face, or will it simply make the population feel slightly more aggresive to outsiders and reinforce already over zealous nationalism?
 

escapeartist

Turbo Monkey
Mar 21, 2004
1,759
0
W-S. NC
Come on guys havent you heard of WWII Germany and Rwanda? Federal ID cards have been used by other governments with much success, the US is just behind the times
 

kinghami3

Future Turbo Monkey
Jun 1, 2004
2,239
0
Ballard 4 life.
escapeartist said:
Come on guys havent you heard of WWII Germany and Rwanda? Federal ID cards have been used by other governments with much success, the US is just behind the times
Haha! true that. You can count me out. Sure we have our protection under the current government, but things change, history has proven that this government will not be around forever and the consequences of having such a card scare me.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Passports now carry fingerprint data, soon to be in RFID format. You have an SS card, and a drivers license.

Putting these together will make absolutely no difference to your privacy, yet will save billions in the long run by only having to produce/keep track of one card.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
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Transcend said:
Passports now carry fingerprint data, soon to be in RFID format. You have an SS card, and a drivers license.

Putting these together will make absolutely no difference to your privacy, yet will save billions in the long run by only having to produce/keep track of one card.
In theory, yes. In practice I've sen nothing that suggests that the redundancy is planned to be removed. Secondly there will be more biometric data than fingerprints included on the ID cards. Retinal scans will most likely be on there too, and I read that there may be a record kept of DNA samples elsewhere tied in with the cards creation, however this seems a little far fetched even for the US.

So, whilst the big brother aspect doesn't particularly bother me as a law abiding citizen (much), if the logical extent of the card is not done alongside it's introduction (i.e removing all that redundancy of SS and DL etc.) it's just another huge cost, which doesn't actually help at all with it's stated aim of making your country safer. I have seen no plans to do this, so unless you know better, it's just money for nothing other than another means of public surveillance.

And RFID chips in the cards? This potentially means that you could be tracked where ever equipment is in place to track you... At least you can turn off your mobile without arousing suspicion.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Changleen said:
In theory, yes. In practice I've sen nothing that suggests that the redundancy is planned to be removed. Secondly there will be more biometric data than fingerprints included on the ID cards. Retinal scans will most likely be on there too, and I read that there may be a record kept of DNA samples elsewhere tied in with the cards creation, however this seems a little far fetched even for the US.

So, whilst the big brother aspect doesn't particularly bother me as a law abiding citizen (much), if the logical extent of the card is not done alongside it's introduction (i.e removing all that redundancy of SS and DL etc.) it's just another huge cost, which doesn't actually help at all with it's stated aim of making your country safer. I have seen no plans to do this, so unless you know better, it's just money for nothing other than another means of public surveillance.

And RFID chips in the cards? This potentially means that you could be tracked where ever equipment is in place to track you... At least you can turn off your mobile without arousing suspicion.

Biometric data of any kind..be it DNA, fingerprints, retinal scan etc - is all the same thing. They can identify you just as easily with either one. DNA records are already kept for many federal employees, convicted felons etc.

Passports already have rfid data on them... The scanners to get the info off is not trivial however...usually they require something like a 1"-1' range. Beyond that they suck way too much power. Besides, 1 small piece of tinfoil or RFID blocking tape can take the place of your tinfoil hat any day.

As you said, at this point it is just a monumental waste of cash, but from what i understand the eventual plan is to basically get rid of SS cards, drivers licenses etc.

Whether that will ever come into practice is another story. it could potentially save billions of dollars, well helping to keep track of who is in and out of the country. As much as some don't like that idea, it is how a country has to operate...hell the us tries now, it just fails miserably.

The big question is from the privacy weirdos...who don't seem to understand that it makes absolutely no difference to their wackjob view of the world....they can be identified just as easily from that ciggarette butt or cup of water they through in the trash o on the ground.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Transcend said:
Passports now carry fingerprint data, soon to be in RFID format. You have an SS card, and a drivers license.

Putting these together will make absolutely no difference to your privacy, yet will save billions in the long run by only having to produce/keep track of one card.

Exactly right.
Take the combined costs of administration of SS ID, State Department Passports and State ID vs a single centralized identification document and the cost savings are staggering.

Furthermore it will reduce the opportunity for document forgery. It is currently far too easy to obtain forged identifiction documents and convert them into legit documents. You can buy a fake CA drivers liscence in Mexico, take it to Oregon walk into the DMV and hand it to them in exchange for a perfectly legal Oregon liscence.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Damn True said:
Exactly right.
Take the combined costs of administration of SS ID, State Department Passports and State ID vs a single centralized identification document and the cost savings are staggering.

Furthermore it will reduce the opportunity for document forgery. It is currently far too easy to obtain forged identifiction documents and convert them into legit documents. You can buy a fake CA drivers liscence in Mexico, take it to Oregon walk into the DMV and hand it to them in exchange for a perfectly legal Oregon liscence.
He does have a good point however, in pointing out that if those other systems are not abolished, it is simply another monumental waste of resources with absolutely NO benefit.

I am all for it - i was one of the first people to sign up for the border express pass system here meant for commuters to the US. I wasn't accepted due to the fact that they changed requirements (had to be working on the other side of the border) but its a great system.

DNA, retinal scan AND fingerprint all on one card along with photo, personal info etc. All RFID based. Works almost like easypass. Drive up, it gets scanned, border guard checks that you are indeed you by matching your photo and off you go.

If only customs at the airport worked this way, I would be in heaven. I ALWAYS get hauled aside, bags searched etc.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
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Transcend said:
I ALWAYS get hauled aside, bags searched etc.
That's still gotta happen no matter what, untill there are proper real time 3D imaging mass-spectrometers that every bit of baggage can be passed through. Our tech isn't quite that cool yet.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Transcend said:
He does have a good point however, in pointing out that if those other systems are not abolished, it is simply another monumental waste of resources with absolutely NO benefit.

I am all for it - i was one of the first people to sign up for the border express pass system here meant for commuters to the US. I wasn't accepted due to the fact that they changed requirements (had to be working on the other side of the border) but its a great system.

DNA, retinal scan AND fingerprint all on one card along with photo, personal info etc. All RFID based. Works almost like easypass. Drive up, it gets scanned, border guard checks that you are indeed you by matching your photo and off you go.

If only customs at the airport worked this way, I would be in heaven. I ALWAYS get hauled aside, bags searched etc.
You are correct. The Federal ID should be instituted and once up and running, the other systems should be ditched.

And I share your frusteration with airport security. It's better than it was pre 9/11, but it is still a far cry from what it ought to be.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Changleen said:
That's still gotta happen no matter what, untill there are proper real time 3D imaging mass-spectrometers that every bit of baggage can be passed through. Our tech isn't quite that cool yet.
No - bags get xrays, sniffed etc. I mean i get hauled out of line, into the little customs room, where my bag(s) is opened before me, i am asked all sorts of stupid questions (Do you have any drugs or weapons in this bag? - right..and if I did I'm gonna tell you).

I have to schedule almost an extra hour every trip for this - it is absurd and never fails, I ALWAYS get tagged. I travel well dressed, with camera gear and a laptop, fly very frequently, always carry a canadian passport, sit in business class and am always polite. Meanwhile dopey white boy speaking ebonics in pants that 4 of my fellow passengers could get into gets whisked aboard hassle free.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,912
2,877
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Transcend said:
No - bags get xrays, sniffed etc. I mean i get hauled out of line, into the little customs room, where my bag(s) is opened before me, i am asked all sorts of stupid questions (Do you have any drugs or weapons in this bag? - right..and if I did I'm gonna tell you).

I have to schedule almost an extra hour every trip for this - it is absurd and never fails, I ALWAYS get tagged. I travel well dressed, with camera gear and a laptop, fly very frequently, always carry a canadian passport, sit in business class and am always polite. Meanwhile dopey white boy speaking ebonics in pants that 4 of my fellow passengers could get into gets whisked aboard hassle free.
It's cos you talk to me on the :monkey: . :sneaky: