[nauc]

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/

 

[jimmydean]

Should have outsourced like a good 'merican.

 

[$tinkle]

Should have outsourced like a good 'merican.

they'll just play the mariachi music americans won't anyway

 

[mandown]

ishty

 

[MMike]

I dunno....Gibson does not exactly sound squeeky clean.....



http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/why-gibson-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department?sc=fb&cc=fp

 

[jimmydean]

Tainted wood.

 

[4xBoy]

Clear cutting the rest of the world for a few people to have guitars is f-ing sad.

 

[$tinkle]

Clear cutting the rest of the world for a few people to have guitars is f-ing sad.

not if those few can raise awareness & throw down some mad licks about deforestation of our land

exhibit a: http://rockandecology.blogspot.com/2008/07/malvina-reynolds-in-60s-protest-songs.html

 

[mandown]

Clear cutting the rest of the world for a few people to have guitars is f-ing sad.

go destroy your music collection, and try to pull your head out of your ass in the process.

 

[jimmydean]

go destroy your music collection, and try to pull your head out of your ass in the process.

Because only endangered wood sounds awesome?

 

[4xBoy]

go destroy your music collection, and try to pull your head out of your ass in the process.

Why not go kill all the elephants so drummers can have ivory accents on their drums then also.

 

[mandown]

Because more trees are cut to make cereal boxes than guitars.

 

[mandown]

Why not go kill all the elephants so drummers can have ivory accents on their drums then also.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I'm all for protecting endangered wood, however this law is also retroactive. If you've got a guitar made years ago from what is now endangered wood it can be confiscated. Why the F does the goberment care about musical insturments made years ago...........

 

[jimmydean]

Because more trees are cut to make cereal boxes than guitars.

And yet I get my cereal from a bag. If rock stars didn't smash up they sh!t maybe they could make less guitars?

 

[stevew]

Clear cutting the rest of the world for a few people to have guitars is f-ing sad.

so it's strictly barbershop quartet recordings for you?

 

[mandown]

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1944736

Although guitars are made of hardwood lumber that may contribute to deforestation, the guitar manufacturing industry is a very small percentage of the market when compared to others. Home construction consumes the most amount of wood, and even perfume manufacturers use more rosewood (for its scented oil) than guitar construction.

Drop in the bucket.

Perhaps we should quit riding bikes because of the environmental impact of the chain lube and hub grease. OH NOES!!!

 

[Andyman_1970]

Perhaps we should quit riding bikes because of the environmental impact of the chain lube and hub grease. OH NOES!!!

Or mining and manufacture of aluminum tubes..............

 

[syadasti]

Drop in the bucket.

Its a drop in the bucket if a single hunter kills an endangered species but scale has no bearing on legal status. Illegal is still illegal. Gibson knew the law - they are at fault - end of story and no excuse. This is the second time they've knowingly broke the law (last time they were getting it from Madagascar which has been plagued by illegal-logging - all sorts of endemic species are severely threatened as a result). They don't deserve a third chance to support the destruction of these critical habitats.

Mr. Nix went to Madagascar in June 2008 on a trip organized by environmental groups to talk to local officials about selling responsibly harvested wood to makers of musical instruments. Afterward, in emails later seized by the government, he referred to "widespread corruption and theft of valuable woods" and the possibility of buying ebony and rosewood from Madagascar on "the grey market."

In a June 4 court filing, Jerry Martin, U.S. Attorney for central Tennessee, quoted the emails, and said "Nix knew that the grey market meant purchasing contraband."

And Gibson isn't small fish when they do about 1/2 billion a year in sales.

Exotic woods are not essential for guitars (or paperboard which is recycled on a large scale) either.

I'm all for protecting endangered wood, however this law is also retroactive. If you've got a guitar made years ago from what is now endangered wood it can be confiscated. Why the F does the goberment care about musical insturments made years ago...........

Wrong, even today ebony is not illegal if its harvested in an approved forest. There are legal sources both in the past and now.

 

[mandown]

not saying anything about the validity of the law, but 4X's complaint about guitars being the root of all evil is

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576542942027859286.html

Gibson Guitar Corp., a big user of ebony and other scarce woods, for years has allied itself with Greenpeace and other environmental groups to show it was serious about preserving forests.

Gibson's predicament, which raises concerns for musical instrument makers and other importers of wood, illustrates the pitfalls of complying with U.S. law while dealing with middlemen in faraway countries whose legal systems can be murky.

The law ensnaring Gibson is the Lacey Act of 1900, originally passed to regulate trade in bird feathers used for hats and amended in 2008 to cover wood and other plant products. It requires companies to make detailed disclosures about wood imports and bars the purchase of goods exported in violation of a foreign country's laws.

The government has focused on a March 2009 shipment of ebony from Madagascar intended for guitar fingerboards. Madagascar law bars the export of certain unfinished wood products, according to both Gibson and the government. Gibson says the ebony had been cut into pieces and that local officials approved the export as a legal sale of finished goods.

doesn't sound like an enviro-issue based on my read, just bickering over the "finished" status of the wood.

 

[syadasti]

The first time with Madagascar they knew it was grey market and didn't stop importing until raided in 2009. At that point they should have spend the money and setup a proper legal acquisition system.

Why should they get a third chance as a large user of exotic woods (again not small fry - the article you posted clearly notes it)? One chance was more than enough - there is no reason to give them anymore leeway regardless of what PR campaign they have in place.

 

[mandown]

Hey, if they broke the law, then they pay the price. I'm good with that. But let the issues they are charged with be the issues they are charged with. They clearly were buying a product it was legal to sell based on the endangered status of the wood. The issue is the degree of "finishedness" of the wood. Buying ebony for guitars means fretboards, which can only be semi-finished when bought in order for the whole guitar to be built.

Also, Google shop for Gibson guitars that come with ebony fretboards and take a gander at the average price for those models. They ain't cheap, and I have a hard time believing that the units sold of those models are very high. Multiply the units sold by the small amount of wood needed for a fretboard. If asshats still want to swing wild at issues claiming clear-ctting for these guitars and smashing them is responsible for deforestation, then they will get wound up about anything and deserve the credulity they have earned.

 

[syadasti]

The primary threat to Madagascar ecosystems is deforestation which has happened on a massive scale. It clearly notes the wood was known grey market product and Gibson kept buying until it was raided - NOT before. If you knew anything about Madagascar it would be clear and Martin Guitars agrees:

There was a coup," Martin says. "What we heard was the international community has come to the conclusion that the coup created an illegitimate government. That's when we said, 'Okay, we can not buy any more of this wood.'"

And while some say the Lacey Act is burdensome, Martin supports it: "I think it's a wonderful thing. I think illegal logging is appalling. It should stop. And if this is what it takes unfortunately to stop unscrupulous operators, I'm all for it. It's tedious, but we're getting through it."

What part of half a billion in sales and "Gibson Guitar Corp., a big user of ebony and other scarce woods(WSJ)" don't you understand?

Technicalities are how they usually catch offenders even if they can't get them on blatant violations - read more here - NatGeo: Asia Wildlife Trade

 

[4xBoy]

Mandown should be chiponshoulder.

Music industry is not Gibson, a company that chose to buy questionable products more the once deserves to get it in the poop chute.

 

[mandown]

 

[$tinkle]

NSFW

 

[heavy metal]

No fun allowed.