[Borneo]

Since some of you are also on the BBTC list, you may have already read this.
Seems as though King county tore down some DJs and revegitated them to only find a bit later that all the plants were pulled out and the DJs rebuilt.

Sounds like the fecal matter is really about to make contact with the rotary air pusher over that area. Moreso than in the past.

Offlist, I've heard there's folks in high places that are fed up with mountain bikers constantly disregarding the rules. A truly bad thing at this point when so many other things are going well for us. Just means more explinations at all those boring meetings that the awesome few attend to try and sway opinions.
It's likely that this will also affect the relationship mountain bikers have with the new ranger at Ed's too...

So, if you know these people doing their own thing. Please educate them.

 

[RhinofromWA]

But, but, they are minors and have a bicycle...........

it is their right!

neaky:

Stupid Finn Hill builders, you don't build new jumps right where the old ones were demo'd and seeded. It isn't like somebody isn't going to check up on the spot. Yeesh.

 

[Snacks]

This sounds bad, but I don't care....when ever I'm out riding there and see some jumps built I take them down. All those builders can just kiss my a**. Pretty soon the land will closed down for any type of riding.

Yes, I have cut trail in illegal areas but if the trail gets buried but DNR, or who ever, I move on.

 

[evilbob]

Might need to take pics more often, get names and persue addresses. We may actually need to direct the park people to the offenders home address. I think a few fines to the individuals or their parents might be what is needed to keep the park open. Just tearing their stuff down doesn't seem to work. To many abusive (immature) people seem to think they have the right to screw everyone else, I say screw them. Tech trails and stunts are nice and fun but not when they cause the loss of even basic trails and riding. Build where there is permission or where building will not risk things that allready exist. If it gets torn down don't piss and moan about it and claim some childish right to do what ever you want. Don't build again in the same spot. Do exactly what snacks said, move on.

 

[Skookum]

it really HAS to be kids who don't have cars to get to SST or wherever....

 

[Chuckwagon]

I think all builders should model after what blackrock freeride has done. One of the few LEGAL freeride areas in the PNW, and some of the best too.

www.blackrockfreeride.org

 

[Gfreak]

I think signs should be put in areas where the jumps/stunts are most prevelant and should read "$1,000 fine for illegal trail building, violaters will be prosecuted"

That's my 2c's

 

[MRUFF]

When did this happen? The jumps have been gone for a while now.

Last night I saw ferns, salal and oregon grape all recently planted where the jumps used to be. Also sticks and logs placed in there to make it look natural again.

 

[freeridekid]

I think everybody should come build out here in the desert where nobody gives a.....

 

[Borneo]

Where, exactly and when?
I don't know. Don't ride there and don't plan to.
It could be that they were planted, ripped out, and replanted for all I know. Or, in a differnt are than what you are thinking of.
I do think that some sort of "official" King County signage would(maybe) help.
Also posting something on the North entrance from Bastyr property at the sign board may help too. But, I've heard that get's vandalized all the time too.

 

[Cash-Money]

when were the jumps rebuilt? i know the guys that built the original 6pack, and dont think they had rebuilt them. were they built up in the same place?

 

[Big B]

The six packs were torn down last summer, at the same time all the ladder drops were torn down. The work was done by the DNR, contracted by King County. Nothing has been replaced since then.

A month ago, the cub scouts replanted the area where the six packs used to be. As of yesterday, all the plants are still there, although they could use some water.

The King County ranger in charge of the park did a walk-through of Finn Hill with a representative from the BBTC last week. I spoke with both of them at length, wearing full downhill armor. They are both aware that all types of riders enjoy Finn Hill and they are working together to try to create an environment that will be fun and safe while protecting the forest and trails. The ranger has no plans at this time to tear down anything that currently exists. The BBTC is trying to gradually increase awareness that freeriding is here to stay. More and more riders are looking for 'stunts' to enjoy and the county will have to come to terms with that eventually, like they did with skateboarding. But this will take time, teamwork, and awareness.

It is important that nobody builds anything without working through the BBTC. The best way to get something built is to volunteer for a trail party and see what is or is not legal.

 

[s dub]

yeah um we definatley didnt re-build the djs? i havent been back there in a while but it definatley wasnt the same people who built them in the 1st place (us).

what are you all talking about? Big B said he was there the other day and there werent any djs? im confused as to where you got this info, Borneo

 

[Borneo]

Got the info from the head BBTC guy spearheading the workparties there for the past decade. So, I'm assuming it's good info.
The area in question could be some other jumps other than the "6 pack" you guys are talking about. There's stuff built all over the place in there.

 

[Snacks]

I was out there last night. The six-pack is still down...lots of plants planted in the area.

What I have noticed is a lot of new spur trails since last spring. I checked them out and looks like the new thing in build jumps/drops off 'natural terrain' I'm still confused when I set people riding out there in full dh gear?

 

[Big B]

I know where every mound of dirt higher than a molehill is in Finn Hill, so it may be that there is a difference in opinion as to the definition of 'dirt jump'. There are a couple pathetically small, poorly build mounds of dirt that might be construed as a dirt jump (by people who don't actually jump) in the first clearing you come to when you enter Finn Hill from the St Edwards side. But anyone who saw the six packs last year would have to admit that the little jumps in the 'forest clearing' hardly measure up to the status of 'dirt jump'. They're more like speedbumps.

Eveyone knows about the kicker on the dirt hillside, and nobody has a problem with that one as far as I know. There are 1 or 2 log drops and a kicker made from dirt piled up against a stump, but those are not problems. The ranger was standing next to one while we were talking.

Borneo, I would not go so far as to say that "There's stuff built all over the place in there." There is hardly anything in there now. There is so little that it's amost boring. It's no wonder I don't see any of the 10+ kids that made the stuff last year. They used to be there almost daily. I guess they all hit puberty and started driving or chasing girls.

Other than the 'speedbumps' I mentioned, I haven't seen any more illegal building in over 5 months. So good job to those that have stopped building. Now we just need to repair the old damage and work with the county for new trails and 'skill builders'.

 

[Tully]

I checked them out and looks like the new thing in build jumps/drops off 'natural terrain'.

I wonder if that might be at least a partial solution; it seems that the DNR/King County/whoever else is in charge objects to things that drastically alter the terrain (dirt jumps, ladders), so things that are more integrated into the terrain should therefore not be a problem, or at least much less of one. I do think it's necessary, however, that a little land gets designated OK for stunts/jumps, whether or not they remain banned in the rest of the park. That way, everyone is happy, which is what it all boils down to.

 

[Borneo]

As I mentioned, I don't ride there. (The boring part is just part of the reason.)
Just passing on what I heard.
There's a movement within the BBTC to do just what some of you have mentioned. Get the land manager to set aside an area for dirt jumps, etc. in return for leaving the rest of the area alone. Thus keeping the jumpers semi-happy and the neighbors semi-happy. It's possible. Just needs people to do something about it and not just chat about it on-line...
But, you all already knew that.

 

[s dub]

they wont change rule just because jumpers are "unhappy" they know we are they approached us (builders of the 6 pack) and told us they didnt want the jumps in there.

it's an issue of liability mostly, therefore without a lot of work they wont allow any trails on their property becaue they would be liable.

at the time this upset us but its cool now we have some private property with way bigger/better jumps.

i havent ridden thru finn hill in a while is there anything worth riding now?

 

[carbuncle]

Man, I must be going to the wrong part because the only thing I ever see anywhere over there is those crappy pallet board ladders in the Bastyr hole. Oh, and I have seen that kicker. That whole area is just too tense for me. I joined the BBTC last year exclusively to get on some work parties and give back, and the first one that came up was St Eds. So my wife and I go out there and help, and all the while the work party is getting crap from hikers and bikers asking us to get out of the way and intensely debating whether we are working or building stunts. A few weeks later I was out in Finn rolling the single and some bozo THAT WAS ON THAT WORK PARTY started yelling at me to slow down (I was cruising at a fast walking pace) as I rounded a corner and stopped for his party of XC nerds to pass...too much trouble for a big-ass briar patch.

 

[Skookum]

As I mentioned, I don't ride there. (The boring part is just part of the reason.)
Just passing on what I heard.

Well anything else heating up in Rumorville?

some bozo THAT WAS ON THAT WORK PARTY started yelling at me to slow down (I was cruising at a fast walking pace) as I rounded a corner and stopped for his party of XC nerds to pass...too much trouble for a big-ass briar patch.

Come ride at Lake Sawyer in Black Diamond, all the XC nerds complain when you don't go fast enough around a corner.

 

[Borneo]

Sawyer's a long way from Edmonds for Carbuncle.
And, that place has it's own politico problems. The usual, "builders with attitude" stuff.

Yeah, there's always sh!t flying about pretty much every place we ride.
Some just are really not worth posting about.
This one came from Craig, who got the legal stuff built there way back when and has been pretty much the only guy doing anything with the ranger over the years. (However, he may also be the guy who said to slow down as well.)

Ed's is great if you live right by it or it's on your way home from work.
But, it's also horribly over ridden and the trails are all about 3-4 times wider than when they were originally built. Being, "in-town" and probably the heaviest used mtb place also means it's the focal point for trail conflict issues that is referred to when asking for other legal places to ride. With the season being what it is, I say, if you can, Give it a rest.

 

[F.M.]

What the heck happened there? Stunts got built and torn out. None of it made any sense to me- the smaller stunts were more dangerous and not built as well, but somebody came though and tore all the bigger stuff out- despite the fact that all of it was very well built, very safe, and with trannys and optional lines so the chances of getting hurt are less than on the smaller stunts there. The worst part to me was how the stunts were torn out- just pulled apart and thrown down the hillside. Now instead of well-built stunts, we have construction dumping by whomever tore the stunts out.

I was curious and made some calls- nobody seems to know who tore the stuff out. I've heard from several sources it was *not* the land owners or local trail builders. No reports of injuries or accidents. What scares me, is that perhaps there is a mentaility that all building is bad and should be torn out.

Would it have been too much to just leave a note saying, "please don't continue to build stunts here, or they will be torn out. Because of reasons X, Y & Z.".

I just want to know, why?

Sawyer's a long way from Edmonds for Carbuncle.
And, that place has it's own politico problems. The usual, "builders with attitude" stuff.

Yeah, there's always sh!t flying about pretty much every place we ride.

 

[Skookum]

The worst part to me was how the stunts were torn out- just pulled apart and thrown down the hillside. Now instead of well-built stunts, we have construction dumping by whomever tore the stunts out.
?

Yah there is a stunt at Lake Sawyer that is like that. It got torn up and rolled down the hillside. Just went out there today and someone rebuilt it and left the old one down below on the hillside. Seems like a tug of war of stupidity. Personally i don't think that particular stunt fits in with the terrain or style of riding that's there, i mean who's gonna ride their big bike at Lake Sawyer with the exception of Trailhacker? (edit-plus it's a 5 foot drop into a small soft tranny, into mud..... hmmmm)
i've said it before i'll say it some more, if you build illegally with no permission you basically give up rights of any work you do, even before you start. Whether it's being changed or ripped apart and made into a bonfire. That's just common sense, and if you're in an area that's multi use on the Eastside where everyone who lives there has sand stuffed up thier vagina, except for the wonderful few who post on Ridemonkey of course, you're all sand free. It's just asking for conflict and it's selfish, go find places that won't resist you so much, there are usually good reasons for the resistance. Work with the people that have communication and dialogue rolling, or stay off of parks, state/city/federal land where building stuff can lead to ALL bikes being banned to a place. And if you must go underground at the places where everybody knows about, but don't talk about on here....
i dunno alot of stunts that i see built are garbage, except the ones i build of course.... i really wish this area had a Galbraith where it was established it was ok to build within whatever parameters the land owners were ok with. Collanade is gonna be a watered down version but it's a start.
Seems like some people need to know how,(especially how) where, and sometimes when to build, others need to accept that structures/jumps/technical features, when done correctly, are perfectly fine additions to the trails.

 

[Snacks]

Seems like some people need to know how,(especially how) where, and sometimes when to build, others need to accept that structures/jumps/technical features, when done correctly, are perfectly fine additions to the trails.

In a nut shell!

I couldn't agree more with ya.....except maybe after you posted this you went and peeled out in the parking lot

 

[Skookum]

In a nut shell!

I couldn't agree more with ya.....except maybe after you posted this you went and peeled out in the parking lot

RRRRRRRRRRRRRR *smokin them tires*

 

[Big B]

i havent ridden thru finn hill in a while is there anything worth riding now?

There's a hidden dirt jump that leads into a 15+ ft gap jump. Otherwise, it's just the kicker on the hillside where the ladder drops used to be.

we have some private property with way bigger/better jumps.
now

...reeeaally...now, that's interesting. Where did you say that private property was again?

I checked out your tribute to St. Eds video on your website...I teared up and started bawling. That video is awesome and yet so, so sad.
Summer '04, the year I learned to dirt jump.

 

[ioscope]

F*ck da' poe-lees

Let the kids be kids.

The government is wasting everyones money on this garbage.

Seriously, it's kid's riding bicycles, what's the worst that could happen?

Why don't those government assholes spend some time getting on the asses of EPA violators and oil refineries etc. Jesus

 

[cowman]

There's a hidden dirt jump that leads into a 15+ ft gap jump. Otherwise, it's just the kicker on the hillside where the ladder drops used to be.



...reeeaally...now, that's interesting. Where did you say that private property was again?

I checked out your tribute to St. Eds video on your website...I teared up and started bawling. That video is awesome and yet so, so sad.
Summer '04, the year I learned to dirt jump.

wheres this hidden dj?

cant tell about the jumps its not my property and allready lots of people are learning about where they are... and we dont really want that....

im glad that video had the effect on you... i was trying to make it that way using somewhat sadish music and such... may i ask how you heard about it? or where you found a link (just curious). which rider were you? were you out there offen? what did you ride?

EDIT: my friend was logged on and i didnt notice so i posted under his name... this reply should be from s dub

 

[s dub]

by the way if anyone wants to see the tribute to the st ed's djs heres a link...

http://whapmproductions.com/cpg1.3.1/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=0

 

[Big B]

wheres this hidden dj?

If I spelled it out here, it wouldn't be hidden anymore. I'd be glad to show you if I ever saw you riding there again. You know what happens when to many people know about stuff at St. Eds.

im glad that video had the effect on you... i was trying to make it that way using somewhat sadish music and such... may i ask how you heard about it? or where you found a link (just curious). [/B]

I saw the link to your website from your profile page here on the Monkey.
Then I just started snoop'in.

which rider were you? were you out there offen? what did you ride?[/B]

I was there a lot last summer...trying to jump. :dancing: I crashed more often than not it seems. It was alway tough for me to stay fluid and hit that 3rd double.

I rode a gray Giant AC1. I talked to you briefly about the website in the ferry line yesterday.
You remember..."DO NOT RIDE BICYCLES IN THE FERRY LINE TRAFFIC!" Nag, nag, nag. LOL

Geeze, can't a guy have fun anymore?

 

[Cash-Money]

hahaha that ferry lady was a bitch. i had the blue volvo covered in stickers with the hitch mount rack

 

[Big B]

hahaha that ferry lady was a bitch.

No kidding...:mumble: She came over and asked us if we had paid for those (pointing to our bikes). Duh!
You pay by the person, not the bike, lady!

lol. I guess someone tried to lurk themselves and their bike in line to avoid paying! hehe.

What did she expect me to say "Uh, no. I guess you got me. Here's $10."

You were carpooling with Steven, right? I saw almost everyone there that I saw at St. Eds last year. The Six-Pack crew!

 

[Cash-Money]

yeah i was driving steven, i'm simon, the one that was riding a hardtail. i should have a DH bike by next year's spring fling

 

[Tully]

i should have a DH bike by next year's spring fling

Are you going to take the hardtail to the one in April? If so, I should see you there.

BTW, do you know what DH bike you want?

 

[theFOOT]

dude right after the six pack was demolished it was starting to be rebuilt then it got torn down and they planted crap there

 

[Cash-Money]

Are you going to take the hardtail to the one in April? If so, I should see you there.

BTW, do you know what DH bike you want?

dunno yet about april. ii'll probobly get a trek session or gary fischer king fischer

 

[Big B]

ii'll probobly get a trek session or gary fischer king fischer

4 bar vs. single pivot...tough choice.

I've been riding an AC1 which is almost the same as the Session, and it's been great for me. It's a good bike if you like to ride everything, and like working for your gravity. Better anti-bob characteristics that the single pivots. But, the King Fisher looks like it could take more abuse.

You can't go wrong with either one though.

 

[s dub]

If I spelled it out here, it wouldn't be hidden anymore. I'd be glad to show you if I ever saw you riding there again. You know what happens when to many people know about stuff at St. Eds.


I saw the link to your website from your profile page here on the Monkey.
Then I just started snoop'in.


I was there a lot last summer...trying to jump. :dancing: I crashed more often than not it seems. It was alway tough for me to stay fluid and hit that 3rd double.

I rode a gray Giant AC1. I talked to you briefly about the website in the ferry line yesterday.
You remember..."DO NOT RIDE BICYCLES IN THE FERRY LINE TRAFFIC!" Nag, nag, nag. LOL

Geeze, can't a guy have fun anymore?

haha yeah that was funny. now i know who you are! you used to come ride in full armor right?

oh and by the way it's "whapm" not "wamp" as i thought i heard you say.

do you ride there much anymore? i might drop by one of these days

 

[s dub]

No kidding...:mumble: She came over and asked us if we had paid for those (pointing to our bikes). Duh!
You pay by the person, not the bike, lady!

lol. I guess someone tried to lurk themselves and their bike in line to avoid paying! hehe.

What did she expect me to say "Uh, no. I guess you got me. Here's $10."

You were carpooling with Steven, right? I saw almost everyone there that I saw at St. Eds last year. The Six-Pack crew!

i think the guy at the ticket booth saw us riding by and putting our bikes on the car (coming from our full suspension URBAN RIDE!) and was perhaps thinking we were trying to get by without paying for 3 passengers. After the lady "checked our recept" i noticed she only looked at receipts of people with bikes on their car :angry: