[zahgurim]

I had a '75 914, that started as a 2.0. Family just sold it, while I was over here. Fun as hell to drive, and very, very, easy to make fast. Maintanance was a bitch though, as you have to drop the engine to do everything (except for maybe adjusting your valves.) I'll build a monster up when i get back home again. Think 3.0+ twinturbo 6 cyl...

My first car was a '73 superbeetle, which got me into the Vdubs.

You prolly don't want a 914 for a first car. You will die in any sort of accident, there's not much to them at all. Your ass is 6" off the ground, including the seat. Everybody else's headlights are level with (or over) your head.

I recomend either an old Beetle, or a Mk 2 GTI. Both easy to work on, cheap parts, and can be made fast as all hell.

 

[def]

First car? Early 80's K car. I'm sure you could afford one and with a bench seat in the front, thats 5 ladies you can haul around in style and lux-u-ry!

Seriously, at your age insurance is going to be stupid. Even on your folks plan and good student discounts and such. I bought a second gen Supra (turbo) as my 2nd car after my awesome Dodge Aries. Insuring it was a bitch and I got in more trouble w/ that thing at 18 than I could have imagined....and I too was driving on dirt roads and our farm since I was 12. My suggestion: Get transportation that isn't too expensive, has a sporty feel, is fairly reliable and the insurance companies don't consider it a rocket ship. Save some cash and get what you want in a few years. Hell, I'm 25 and I still want a 914.

 

[merrrrjig]

It WAS a 97 honda civic HX, Hopefully I will be able to afford a new car in a few weeks!

 

[mobius]

Stay away from BMW and porsche. Your insurance will be high as hell and you will be dropping mad money to fix it. My dad has owned both and they definetly cost a lot to upkeep after a few years of them being new.

 

[justsomeguy]

Stay away from BMW and porsche. Your insurance will be high as hell and you will be dropping mad money to fix it. My dad has owned both and they definetly cost a lot to upkeep after a few years of them being new.

My experience has been just the opposite.

Other than consumables upkeep has been minimal. Insurance is pretty low also, all things considered.

 

[stinkyboy]

Another dumb kid on the road.

At least he's got go cart experience...

 

[jacksonpt]

Generally speaking, German cars are going to be more expensive to maintain. Plus, I don't think they are as reliable as a good Japanese car. Have you looked into the older Supras... the turbo'd supras from the late 80s are a lot of fun and fairly easy to find. Problem is a lot of kids are looking for them (for the same reasons you are), so they can be hard to find good deals on.

A second choice would be an older MR2. The turbo'd second gens (91-95) are a blast tor drive, but can be hard to find for cheap. The first gens are very popular, though I don't care for them as well as the second gens. The MKIIs are one of my favorite sports cars of all time.

 

[gastro]

My experience has been just the opposite.

Other than consumables upkeep has been minimal. Insurance is pretty low also, all things considered.

I agree. Given I do most of the work myself, the cost of parts for my 4runner is significantly higher than the cost of parts for my M3.

 

[Qman]

Sounds like you're on the right track with any of your choices for a first car. The best thing is that they all will be relatively easy to work on without requiring dealer computers to tell you that you've got a bad spark plug.
Just don't make the mistake of piling every dollar you earn into the car or the stereo for the car.
Go to the junkyard and get some old tires and do a few autocrosses and track days. Autocrosses can be cheap fun this way and will help you build your driving skills.
Find your local chapter here: www.scca.org

 

[Ciaran]

Another dumb kid on the road.

At least he's got go cart experience...

 

[Angus]

The 914 is a fun car but not practical as a daily driver due to its size, are you planning on having a girlfriend? its hard to get it on in a 914!

Why not consider something like an early 80's Toyota supra or a Mitsubishi starion both cars are quick and fun to drive and affordable to own.

 

[surfinguru]

My first car? Datsun '70 510. (I know, the '69 was more desirable, just couldn't find one.) Dropped a blueprinted L18-SSS with the full Hooker header setup. Full race suspension with Z-5 speed and a nice 5 point roll cage. Looked just like this one, only red.

By far the funnest car I've EVER driven. Long story short, I had it in shop class and the a**hat teacher pushed it outside overnight where it was promptly stripped and beaten with a baseball bat, sand poured down the carb and fuel filler. Total write off. Bought a Toyota truck with the payout. RIP my long lost friend, RIP.

 

[mobius]

My experience has been just the opposite.

Other than consumables upkeep has been minimal. Insurance is pretty low also, all things considered.

Interesting. My dads 928S4 started having issues and he had to pour money into it to get fixed. Guess it is different between old and new ones.

 

[COmtbiker12]

Generally speaking, German cars are going to be more expensive to maintain. Plus, I don't think they are as reliable as a good Japanese car. Have you looked into the older Supras... the turbo'd supras from the late 80s are a lot of fun and fairly easy to find. Problem is a lot of kids are looking for them (for the same reasons you are), so they can be hard to find good deals on.

A second choice would be an older MR2. The turbo'd second gens (91-95) are a blast tor drive, but can be hard to find for cheap. The first gens are very popular, though I don't care for them as well as the second gens. The MKIIs are one of my favorite sports cars of all time.

I second the idea on the older Supras. A friend at school has an 89 and said that insurance was really cheap since it was the 2+2 setup and wasn't setup as a full blown 2seater sports car.

 

[Bicyclist]

I know it's been like a year, but I wanted to give an update. I just got a 1970 Porsche 914 1.7L. I can work on it myself and I plan to do an engine rebuild soon.

For all you grandmas out there, it has 80HP stock via a VW Type IV so it's not exactly a rocket ship.

 

[DirtyMike]

Dude, your Fifteen. Buy something that is going to last without destrying your budget. For God's sake dont go out and buy yourself a Fast car to start with. No Offense, But it will only be a matter of time before you wreck it. Get four or five years behind the wheel before Buying a fast car man. And a Large Note here Gocarts and slick track Is Absolutley Different than Driving a car on the street. Dont for one second think that your go-cart experience will make you a good driver. Totally different world. Just like the guys who say" But i have ridden Dirt bikes my whole life, that makes me able to ride a Street bike.""" Buy something newer, with less to worry about, and dont be afraid of Electronics, there is no Voodoo involved with them. Get yourself a nice Honda or toyota to start off with, something like that a Celica, or an accord. something that can go fast without Panic power. When you grow up youll see what i mean.

 

[DirtyMike]

I know it's been like a year, but I wanted to give an update. I just got a 1970 Porsche 914 1.7L. I can work on it myself and I plan to do an engine rebuild soon.

For all you grandmas out there, it has 80HP stock via a VW Type IV so it's not exactly a rocket ship.

My bad, i Didnt read all teh way out seeing this was an Update. All i can say is, I hope you have a Good Budget to go with that thing. And when you get to where you need to take it to someone.... Hope someone near you will even touch it. I dont woprk on anything in my shop Older than a 75. Its the company Policy. Power wize Probably a good start, age wize... its going to be a Money pit. i Suggest keeping it aside as a Project car and Buy something else thats more reliable. You know something you dont HAVE to work on to keep running

 

[mindlessfr]

go for a vw golf i picked up a 2004 last saturday, fast d*mn car and it looks great with a roof rack for your bike on it, so far i love mine :evil:

 

[jimmydean]

I know it's been like a year, but I wanted to give an update. I just got a 1970 Porsche 914 1.7L. I can work on it myself and I plan to do an engine rebuild soon.

For all you grandmas out there, it has 80HP stock via a VW Type IV so it's not exactly a rocket ship.

Oh, but it can be. I have a friend of mine who builds bus 901 transaxles beefed up for sand rails. He build a pancake motor for his bus that was 2883cc and would damn near pull the front wheels off the ground (in a bus!).

Pancakes aren't as easy as type 1's, but not too far off. Remeber, it's either oil, or gas. If it's anything else, you got big problems.

The kid that bought my sons '66 type 1 has done a nice job on it here.

 

[DirtyMike]

Oh, but it can be. I have a friend of mine who builds bus 901 transaxles beefed up for sand rails. He build a pancake motor for his bus that was 2883cc and would damn near pull the front wheels off the ground (in a bus!).

Pancakes aren't as easy as type 1's, but not too far off. Remeber, it's either oil, or gas. If it's anything else, you got big problems.

The kid that bought my sons '66 type 1 has done a nice job on it here.

Thats a good lookin car there, lots of time it looks like invested

 

[Bicyclist]

For everyone that insists a 914 is expensive, think again. I got mine for $1400. I figure $3000 when it's rebuilt.

 

[justsomeguy]

Dont for one second think that your go-cart experience will make you a good driver. Totally different world.

Sorry, but if you believe that then you're very clueless.

Karting teaches people vehicle dynamics, weight transfer, etc. and it's directly applicable to driving a street car.

Being able to manage an over-powered Kart and slide it around at the limits of adhesion make people better drivers on the street.

Just the facts.

 

[dhfalife]

Sorry, but if you believe that then you're very clueless.

Karting teaches people vehicle dynamics, weight transfer, etc. and it's directly applicable to driving a street car.

Being able to manage an over-powered Kart and slide it around at the limits of adhesion make people better drivers on the street.

Just the facts.

True, but driving on the street adds a few more (nonetheless important) elements such as blind corners, driveways, parked vehicles, traffic lights/signs etc., and the simple fact that there's cars intentionally travelling in multiple AND opposing directions and speeds, within a few feet of eachother, constantly.
Karts may help with vehicle handeling skills to an extent, but theres a big difference between driving karts and almost any full size vehicle. ie, shifting your weight my help maneuver a cart, but isn't gonna do $hit in Civic (for example)

 

[Toshi]

Sorry, but if you believe that then you're very clueless.

Karting teaches people vehicle dynamics, weight transfer, etc. and it's directly applicable to driving a street car.

Being able to manage an over-powered Kart and slide it around at the limits of adhesion make people better drivers on the street.

Just the facts.

being able to control a kart at the limit of adhesion doesn't have much bearing on whether or not the kid will drive like an asshat (tailgating, speeding, swerving, not signaling, etc.), which is the real issue at hand.

 

[DirtyMike]

Sorry, but if you believe that then you're very clueless.

Karting teaches people vehicle dynamics, weight transfer, etc. and it's directly applicable to driving a street car.

Being able to manage an over-powered Kart and slide it around at the limits of adhesion make people better drivers on the street.

Just the facts.

The dynamics of a Gocart are absolutly nothing like a car. Lets start by adding an active suspension. The Dynamics are totally different, just of a curiopus nature, have you driven the 80 mph gocarts??? I have, and its Very different than a car. Weight transfer, well its going to look really funny seeing someone lean inside a car hoping it will help them make a corner they hit to fast.

All i can say is if someone drives a car like a gocart, well i hope its not someone i know, cause i hate funerals.

 

[DirtyMike]

For everyone that insists a 914 is expensive, think again. I got mine for $1400. I figure $3000 when it's rebuilt.

There not expensive right of fthe start, Its one of those cars that is going to Nickel and dime you to death. Old parts break, a suggestion if i may, Buy the electronic Ignition kit and get the points out of it, if it doesnt have that already. And may wanna start practicing your Valve adjustments!!!

 

[justsomeguy]

The dynamics of a Gocart are absolutly nothing like a car.

Sorry, you're still really confused.

Vehicle dynamics, especially weight transfer, the traction circle, etc. apply equally to cars and Karts (note spelling). Understanding those concepts and being able to apply them to whatever vehicle is being driven is a valuable skill set.

 

[DirtyMike]

No, sorry they are not the same. But it will help in the learning and the transistioning. By that standard of them being the same, someone who rides a dirt bike growing up, and rides it right at the limits, can get onto a CBR 1100 and be ready to go right???

Tell me more about weight transfer in a car, and how you change your weight transfer in a car. If you think i am confused on this then Educate me. I would like to know how a <Example number> 140 pound person leaning and shifting in a go KART that Probably doesnt weight as much as they do, compares to leaning and shifting, same weight person, in a 2 thousand plus pound car.

Like i said, maybe a good start, but not the same.

 

[justsomeguy]

<snip really bad analogy>

Tell me more about weight transfer in a car, and how you change your weight transfer in a car.

You can initiate weight transfer in a car by changing the throttle position, pressing or releasing the brake pedal, and/or turning the steering wheel.

 

[gangstamaxx]

I know it's been like a year, but I wanted to give an update. I just got a 1970 Porsche 914 1.7L. I can work on it myself and I plan to do an engine rebuild soon.

For all you grandmas out there, it has 80HP stock via a VW Type IV so it's not exactly a rocket ship.

PICS PICS PICS!

 

[DirtyMike]

Well i have to laugh, a bad analogy??? Ok, what you said there works, But now add in an active suspenion, Power brake system, and a steering gear that isnt a 1-1 ratio. Most cars are a 3-1. I used that anaolgy because the two are Very different, as are Cars and go karts. They may have tehre simularities, but they way they handle, move, accelerate, brake, react, are very different. Have you Driven Gokarts? Not teh Carnival 20 Mph ones, i mean an 80 Mph plus gokart. They are different, and only time behind the wheel of each will make anyone good at either. I used the moto analogy By the way, because while the ideas are the same, the dynamics are Very much different, as are in this case. Youre defending like i came out and said this kid is going to be a bad driver, all i said was he isnt the best driver NOW, and that Time behind the wheel was key. But if you drive a car like a gokart, your in for trouble.

 

[DirtyMike]

PICS PICS PICS!

Yeah, lets see what this beast looks like!!!!

 

[justsomeguy]

But now add in an active suspenion, Power brake system, and a steering gear that isnt a 1-1 ratio. Most cars are a 3-1. I used that anaolgy because the two are Very different, as are Cars and go karts. They may have tehre simularities, but they way they handle, move, accelerate, brake, react, are very different.

The physics is the same.

The skills based upon understanding the physics apply to both types of vehicles.

If the difference is so great then why do most top level racers (racing in vehicles with active suspensions, power brakes, different steering gear ratios, etc.) spend so much time training in Karts?

But if you drive a car like a gokart, your in for trouble.

See above re: physics.

 

[DirtyMike]

If the difference is so great then why do most top level racers (racing in vehicles with active suspensions, power brakes, different steering gear ratios, etc.) spend so much time training in Karts?

Any examples of Race car drivers that practice for there races in goKarts??? Last time i checked Kinseth got ready in teh car he was gonna be racing in. Jr did the same. If i am not Mistaken, All the Rousch drivers were also Practicing for there races, in the cars they were going to be driving in the race. And you still havent answered teh question, Have you ever Driven the 80 Mph plus karts yourself????




P.S. I am loving this debate Btw. Automotive is what i do for a living, i have two degrees in the feild, debate in alot of ways can help people to learn new things, and help to open minds. Heading out for about an hour or so to see off My friend before he leaves for Iraq. Ill check this again when i get back

 

[justsomeguy]

Any examples of Race car drivers that practice for there races in goKarts???

Tracy, Shumaker, Senna, etc.

And you still havent answered teh question, Have you ever Driven the 80 Mph plus karts yourself????

Yes I have, although the vast majority of my track time has been in relatively porky street cars.

The physics is the same...

 

[DirtyMike]

Well, lets go to the bottom line here. Does the fact someone is good at gokarts make them good with a car??? I am good at driving a car, and pretty much Suck at karts, i just dont have much wheel time in the karts. Yes, alot of the Mechanics are the same, i think part of this is when you say Physics that We are thinking on different lines of it. In my mind when you say Physics, i read that a 150 lb kart cannot be the same as a 2k lb Auto. And in more wyas that just size, but the physics behind the Geometries, suspension Etc blah blah blah...But When i say mechanics of it, yeah you have four wheels, steering wheel, brake, accelerator, SAI factor in the front end, camber, caster, toe all that jazz. The mechanics make them similar, but its the physics of the two that seperate them, at least with my thought train here. That why i used toe Moto Example. the mechanics of the two are Very similar, yet the application and the physics involved are still very different. Does this mean your not going to be good at both? no of coarse not. just means your going to need time invested in both to be good at both. I mena even going from a Car to another Car is going to be different, of coarse catching on will go much much faster. But corning in a kart, and cornering in a car are vastly different, as well as braking. I mean were also talking about karts on a track Vs Cars on the public road system. There will be no end to this debate, Both of us are either Bias in one way or another, or were are just not communicating exactly what we mean. the fact this is over an internet forum doesnt help the comunication factor. On the note of Big time racers Praticing in karts. I have a couple friends that work some of the Pit crews, ill research it more and see how much Practice is done in a kart vs car. Play my cards right might get to talk to some of the drivers Directly, who knows. As i am thinking about it now, the kart practice makes sense actually, the cars in Nascar have near zero suspension travel, same for Indy cars, I mean on that part we stepped into comparing an open road vehicle , to a race car. So as far as handling they are probably fairly close. But remember We were comparing Karts to Open road Vehicles, Im still gonna ask around about the kart practice though. Kinda Intrigueing. Till our next debate, Ride on

 

[Toshi]

Well, lets go to the bottom line here. Does the fact someone is good at gokarts make them good with a car???

i'd argue that the number of professional race car drivers who came up through the kart system (and did well there as well) would point to "yes".

I am good at driving a car, and pretty much Suck at karts, i just dont have much wheel time in the karts.

maybe you're not as good of a car driver as you thought.

Yes, alot of the Mechanics are the same, i think part of this is when you say Physics that We are thinking on different lines of it. In my mind when you say Physics, i read that a 150 lb kart cannot be the same as a 2k lb Auto. And in more wyas that just size, but the physics behind the Geometries, suspension Etc blah blah blah...But When i say mechanics of it, yeah you have four wheels, steering wheel, brake, accelerator, SAI factor in the front end, camber, caster, toe all that jazz. The mechanics make them similar, but its the physics of the two that seperate them, at least with my thought train here.

so by "physics" you mean "mechanics" and vice versa? your whole rant here doesn't make much sense. 4 contact patches, one steering wheel, controls for throttle and brake, all the same. adjusting camber, caster, toe, "all that jazz" do the same things on carts as on cars. sure, one has suspension and another doesn't, but that's largely irrelevant when comparing their performance on smooth surfaces, especially with a properly sprung racing suspension that won't move more than an inch or two in response to cornering loads.

That why i used toe Moto Example. the mechanics of the two are Very similar, yet the application and the physics involved are still very different. Does this mean your not going to be good at both? no of coarse not. just means your going to need time invested in both to be good at both. I mena even going from a Car to another Car is going to be different, of coarse catching on will go much much faster.

you're making excuses for your own driving here. i don't see how your points can be generalized.

But corning in a kart, and cornering in a car are vastly different, as well as braking.

you still haven't proved this, in my opinion.

I mean were also talking about karts on a track Vs Cars on the public road [...] As i am thinking about it now, the kart practice makes sense actually, the cars in Nascar have near zero suspension travel, same for Indy cars, I mean on that part we stepped into comparing an open road vehicle , to a race car. So as far as handling they are probably fairly close. But remember We were comparing Karts to Open road Vehicles, Im still gonna ask around about the kart practice though. Kinda Intrigueing. Till our next debate, Ride on

please think about the issues before you type your post next time. thanks

 

[Ciaran]

As someone who has raced karts I can tell you from experience that karting DOES make you better at car control. Won't do anything to make a dumbass kid any less of a dumbass kid though.

I used to think I was a good driver... till I started driving karts. I drove karts and thought I was a good driver... till I went to driving school.

 

[DirtyMike]

Wow, seems i got ripped there. Well as a matter of fact, i am a good Driver, behind the wheel of a car, as i mentioned i am not all that great at karts. Yes, alot went from karts into nascar and other organizations. The fact they went from karts to Cars isnt what made them good at it. Its the practice at each. I grew up riding Dirbikes and quads and such, no i ride a Motorcycle as my primary transportation. First hand seeing the difference between the two.

Proving the difference between corning and braking. thats simple, is there anyways Possible that a 2klb plus Auto is going to be able to corner like a 150lb tops kart?? And do you really think a 2klb plus car can stop as fast as that kart can??

Quick reminder for you, Auto's is what i do for a living, Two Degree's. Currently have All ten ASe certs available for automotive. Four more in the Deisel feild. Justsomeguy had some Very valid points, he also backed up what he was saying and i acknowledged that, you on the other hand, you need to go take soem classes and learn about the two matters before showing that you really just felt like ripping on someone and making yourself look like an ass. Do you even know what Caster, Camber, Toe and SAI are???? I was looking at what Justsomeguy was Putting up because i could tell with what he was saying there was something behind it. Your turn, show me you have some kind of clue about what your talking about.



P.S. next time read all the posts before you RIp someone. Realize the Conversation got contrued between someone driving karts vs Open road Vehicles into Karts vs Race cars....... Get a clue

 

[DirtyMike]

As someone who has raced karts I can tell you from experience that karting DOES make you better at car control. Won't do anything to make a dumbass kid any less of a dumbass kid though.

I used to think I was a good driver... till I started driving karts. I drove karts and thought I was a good driver... till I went to driving school.

See i can go with this statement here, i never said Karting wasnt going to overall make someone a better driver. Just stated that it wasnt What made you a good driver, then further more went on to state what really mattered, time behind the wheel.


Which Driving school did you go to Btw? I am curious is all