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first FS ride

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
not only was it my first full-sussy ride, but i can't remember the last time i had gears. my typical XC bike is rigid, also. bike setup was just slightly different than what i would do. mainly, wider bars. narrow bars make me feel cramped. SRAM triggers, Marta SL brakes, XTR cranks, SRAM X0 RD, XTR FD, MAXM bars. King, Thomson, Kenda, etc.

test riding a potential future bike (4"x4") on a rocky trail (HOL and beyond for you local folks). it was interesting. going down was rather odd. i was not used to the rear end, controlled by an RP3, being so smooth. i have to say, it was a little uncomfortable, and by uncomfortable, i mean odd. the front, a Float RLC, was damn smooth. overall, it was smoother than i was expecting, and tracked better than i was expecting.

climbing was a pleasure. i had always considered myself a masher...but damn, with gears, spinning is fun. it's nice making it up a climb that you had never made it up before. it's also nice not feeling absolutely battered after a ride. i absolutely love the fit of the frame. 23.5" TT, with 120mm stem felt perfect. anyway, i wasn't expecting to make it up about 50% of the climbs i faced today (long, and steady, as well as short and steep), but i pleasantly surprised myself.

SRAM triggers are nice. however, i don't know if it's this particular bike's setup, but the left trigger felt odd. i accidently hit the black trigger multiple times, while not being quite able to reach the silver one. i'm wondering if it's possible to bring the silver one in a little, so that the trigger body can be moved inwards...?

Turning was spot on. the bike went where i pointed it. low speed, high speed...nice. wasn't expecting that. my Inbred is quite twitchy, this bike felt like a good mix between a twitchy frame and a point-and-go-sled. like a "muted twitch", i guess? i don't know.

only semi-big problem was dropping the chain while in the middle ring. i did some adjusting, and that was solved. also, getting the front end up was a little harder than i was expecting. i'm sure this is only temporary, until i actually get used to have a properly setup suspension fork (as opposed to the super stiff Sherman Jumper on my DOC).

cannot comment on the stiffness of the rear end 'cause i have nothing to compare it to, except my Inbred, and DOC.

this is mainly just a stream of thought...hense the randomness.
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,889
0
Boston Area
What kind of bike did you get? It took me almost a full season to adjust to FS. Every ride you do something different. It just keeps getting better!
 
J

JRB

Guest
Hammerhead??? Charles sure is letting that out a lot. Austin Bike rode it and ordered one.
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
didn't buy it, just testing it out for now.



HH100X with Quasi rear end.

i've got a few others to test. won't be ordering any time in the immediate future.
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
Funny, after spending the past 2 to 3 years on a full sussy, I can't wait to fix and rebuild my steel hardtail. How long have you been riding a rigid/hardtail? I had spent only about 4 years on a hardtail before i rode my first fs and it also took me about a year to feel really comfortable on it. I hope it doesn't take that long to feel comfortable again on my ht. Oh well, it's worth the wait.
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,889
0
Boston Area
reflux said:
Funny, after spending the past 2 to 3 years on a full sussy, I can't wait to fix and rebuild my steel hardtail. How long have you been riding a rigid/hardtail? I had spent only about 4 years on a hardtail before i rode my first fs and it also took me about a year to feel really comfortable on it. I hope it doesn't take that long to feel comfortable again on my ht. Oh well, it's worth the wait.
I agree with that. FS is fun to ride, but nothin' hones your skills like a HT (or rigid, I guess). I ride an M1 but do not want a bike with more then 4" of travel for trail use. SHorter travel keeps me honest!
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
i've been riding rigid HT for 5yrs. i also say the Inbred was my first trail bike. the HH is the first FS i have ever been on for more than 1 minute.
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
2 of the bikes i'm trying are true Horst links, and one is a faux-bar. customer service, and brand reputation are 2 huge factors, which cut out 95% of manufacturers. the remaining are manufacturers that stick with either Horst or faux-bar.

Iron Horse is one company that i'd like to try, but i don't think the service i can get from my top choices can be surpassed.
 

Pau11y

Turbo Monkey
Try Specialized. I'm on my 3rd warranty frame (Enduro Pro) and I'm hoping to crack this one too :D Turn around time is a bit long, 3 weeks or so.
I believe the Enduro series are all Horst link altho I'm not too sure about the '05 ones. From reading Punkassean's posts on his it seems to be full active w/ no brake inputs. Welcome to the world of full squishy maing.
I've done what reflux is planning and that HT is now hanging most of the time. I rode it a lot when my Enduro was getting warrantied, but other than that, it's just been hanging. Inbred, you need to jump on a nicely tuned full on DH race rig and REALLY get a feel for some travel :D
 

hooples3

Fuggetaboutit!
Mar 14, 2005
5,245
0
Brooklyn
Pau11y said:
Try Specialized. I'm on my 3rd warranty frame (Enduro Pro) and I'm hoping to crack this one too :D Turn around time is a bit long, 3 weeks or so.
I believe the Enduro series are all Horst link altho I'm not too sure about the '05 ones. From reading Punkassean's posts on his it seems to be full active w/ no brake inputs. Welcome to the world of full squishy maing.
I've done what reflux is planning and that HT is now hanging most of the time. I rode it a lot when my Enduro was getting warrantied, but other than that, it's just been hanging. Inbred, you need to jump on a nicely tuned full on DH race rig and REALLY get a feel for some travel :D

ummm if you cracked 3 frames already wouldnt you suggest NOT trying specialized?????
Ever since i got my heckler.. thats has become my only trail bike.. no more hardtail for me on the dirt
 
J

JRB

Guest
Dustin, Charles' service is great. I would suggest trying the Ventana built HH though.
 

pixelninja

Turbo Monkey
Jun 14, 2003
2,131
0
Denver, CO
My experience going from HT to full-sus seems a bit different than most. I'd ridden the same Kona HT since '94. Started as fully rigid. Upgraded to Rock Shox Quadra 21 in 96/97 and rode that until the fall of '02, when I got my first full sus. An Ellsworth Isis. As soon as I threw my leg over it, I felt like I was HOME. It rode so well. I decended stuff I used to be scared sh*tless of. I climbed stuff I'd never climbed before. It was also my first experience with disc brakes. I was in heaven. For technical riding, I could never go back to rigid. I still have my Kona, but when I get the extra cash, I'm going to turn it into a lean mean lightweight street cruiser. Maybe a singlespeed. We'll see.

I love full suspension.
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
loco said:
Dustin, Charles' service is great. I would suggest trying the Ventana built HH though.
that's another one i'll be trying out, as well as a 5 Spot. main thing i need to figure out is how much travel i need...want....and whether i want an XC bike or a "trail" bike.

Ton, i saw pics of your bike in the Mojo gallery. when did you get it? why no in-the-pants shots???
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
67,394
13,948
In a van.... down by the river
pixelninja said:
My experience going from HT to full-sus seems a bit different than most. I'd ridden the same Kona HT since '94. Started as fully rigid. Upgraded to Rock Shox Quadra 21 in 96/97 and rode that until the fall of '02, when I got my first full sus. An Ellsworth Isis. As soon as I threw my leg over it, I felt like I was HOME. It rode so well. I decended stuff I used to be scared sh*tless of. I climbed stuff I'd never climbed before. It was also my first experience with disc brakes. I was in heaven. For technical riding, I could never go back to rigid. I still have my Kona, but when I get the extra cash, I'm going to turn it into a lean mean lightweight street cruiser. Maybe a singlespeed. We'll see.

I love full suspension.
:stupid: I rode a rigid Giant from '92-'96 and bought a Trek Y22. All of a sudden I could ride 40 mile high country epics and *not* be wasted beyond comprehension at the end of the ride.

Full suspension saved my life. :D

-S.S.-
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
differences between a HH100X and a RX100, that i remember off the top of my head, are tubes (butted vs. straight gauge), tweaked angles, and different size TTs. being that Charles' is ti, i don't know if there is a difference in the tubes, in which case, i suppose it would be a custom ti RX100 with a Quasi rear.
 

indieboy

Want fries with that?
Jan 4, 2002
1,806
1
atlanta
the new xo triggers coming out in the summer allow you to change the angle and degree the paddles sit at. that should cure the problem you speak of.
 

Pau11y

Turbo Monkey
Did they solve the flex issues w/ that design? I had a bike by Dagger using the original AMP design (w/o the little linkage on the seat tube) and it was a wet noodle. Has that little linkage remedied things? I also remember Turner tried to stiffen that design by having a pull shock mounted on the seat tube, now produced by K2. Maybe that design just isn't made for 180# or heavier riders...? Inbred, how heavy are you?
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Squishy.....

People say that if you ride with a hard tail it makes you a better rider, with a sore back.

Really the arguments of why not to have a FS are vastly diminishing with all the "succesful" strides in pedal efficiency that have been worked on in recent years.
 

Mike B.

Turbo Monkey
Oct 5, 2001
1,522
0
State College, PA
Pau11y said:
Did they solve the flex issues w/ that design? I had a bike by Dagger using the original AMP design (w/o the little linkage on the seat tube) and it was a wet noodle. Has that little linkage remedied things? I also remember Turner tried to stiffen that design by having a pull shock mounted on the seat tube, now produced by K2. Maybe that design just isn't made for 180# or heavier riders...? Inbred, how heavy are you?
Between the boxed stays and the x-links, the rear is plenty stiff on the RX or HH bikes, especially if you opt for the Quasi rear.

Inbred - although they are very limited right now, did you consider the MotoLite at all? Those that do have them say that in 4" mode it rides very similar to the RX100 and with the 5" mode it has a nice trail bike feel. I rode one at Interbike with the 5" setup and an RP3 and I liked it a great deal though it was a short ride. The only reason I didn't order one at the show was that they aren't offering anodized finishes and they experienced some production issues since.
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
high 180s. damn, i haven't been in the 150s since.....wow.....5th grade?

today's ride was on a fairly flat, fast trail.

short steep climbs are awesome. i didn't notice any flex, or bob. it was stiff, and smooth. when short and steep, i generally don't bother shifting down. i just hop up and mash a few times, using mostly torque from my arms. i was super impressed. long extended climbs in the saddle were good, as well. however, as soon as i was out of the saddle, i noticed some bob. but i tend to use a ton of body english when climbing like that...i think that is the singlespeed mashing coming out. pump a lot of arm, and throw my weight side to side. i could have just as easily dropped into a lower gear and spun...and in hindsight, i don't know why i didn't. i wanted to wear my HRM today to compare to a normal ride on my Inbred, but forgot. i had the RP3 set in the "firm" position. i weigh just a tad more than Charles. the bob wasn't enough for me to say "man, this sucks" but it was enough for me to think "WC is not meant for a 4" bike" which it really isn't, and i've known that for a while. that place isn't even meant for gears. towards the end of the ride, when my form got ****ty, i started to notice the bob, but that was ascending a quite short hill on the road. a platform shock might be what i am looking for...perhaps just a simple lockout, to ride at this particular trail. or my Inbred.

i didn't like the bars again today...MAXM MX-5s? i can't remember at the moment. something just felt odd, since i spent more time spinning in the saddle. and i want to say the stem was too long, 'cause i noticed that my arms were stretched a bit...but i never adjusted saddle position, so that might be the problem. i noticed after the ride that the bars were rotated a bit further forward than what i keep mine at.

steering impressed me the most today. it was spot on, again. slow, uphill turns, and quick, downhill turns. i looooove how it steers. not too fast, not too slow. prrrrfect.

afterwards, i sat and looked at the little link, or whatever it is...that carbon piece. i remember seeing Racer Xs without that, and i really can't imagine a bike like that not having the link. without it, the rear end just looks like it'd be a lot more flexy, since there isn't anything supporting the seatstays other than the shock. again, i never rode an older RX, this is just speculation.

--edit--

as of now, i see absolutely no reason to go with anything more than 4".
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
Mike B. said:
Between the boxed stays and the x-links, the rear is plenty stiff on the RX or HH bikes, especially if you opt for the Quasi rear.

Inbred - although they are very limited right now, did you consider the MotoLite at all? Those that do have them say that in 4" mode it rides very similar to the RX100 and with the 5" mode it has a nice trail bike feel. I rode one at Interbike with the 5" setup and an RP3 and I liked it a great deal though it was a short ride. The only reason I didn't order one at the show was that they aren't offering anodized finishes and they experienced some production issues since.
i did, but i don't know anyone around here with one. also, the tire clearance problems...have they been addressed?
 

Mike B.

Turbo Monkey
Oct 5, 2001
1,522
0
State College, PA
the Inbred said:
afterwards, i sat and looked at the little link, or whatever it is...that carbon piece. i remember seeing Racer Xs without that, and i really can't imagine a bike like that not having the link. without it, the rear end just looks like it'd be a lot more flexy, since there isn't anything supporting the seatstays other than the shock. again, i never rode an older RX, this is just speculation.
The old RX without the link had a different shock that was produced by Fox for Titus. I had additional overlap to keep the rear end stiff. Fox finally said that the small run wasn't worth it and Titus changed to the new link setup. I believe the '04 and '05 models got the carbon links and the '02 and '03 (maybe '01?) had the aluminum links.
 

Mike B.

Turbo Monkey
Oct 5, 2001
1,522
0
State College, PA
the Inbred said:
i did, but i don't know anyone around here with one. also, the tire clearance problems...have they been addressed?
Yes, the quasi stays fit but weigh 65 grams more than the RX stays originally specced on the ML. It is my understanding that the quasi stays are now shipping on the MLs but we'll see when the one we ordered for the shop shows up.
 

The Toninator

Muffin
Jul 6, 2001
5,436
17
High(ts) Htown
the Inbred said:
high 180s. damn, i haven't been in the 150s since.....wow.....5th grade?
uhh yea i thought but last time i saw you i was really really drunk and heading for the bushes. also i'm not so big and sometimes do get peoples weight so i didnt want to guess to much. like 180 :p
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
hm, some new frames have entered into my realm of thought. including a Blue 4X and the Iron Horse MKIII (slightly). both suspension designs concern me a little. VPP sees lots of criticism, and praise, while the DW-link is still fairly new.

since i've ridden the HH100X, i've been sort of leaning towards the 5 Spot, simply because of the slacker HT angle. the bb height on the 5 Spot is 13.25, while the bb height on the Blur 4x is 12.5....ouch. i like the 23.5" tt on the Blur, though, as compared to the 23.9" on the Spot.

but that headtube angle on the Blur...my plan is to run a Pike, and i assume that's what SC used to get it's angles...a Pike set at 100mm. with that, the HT angle is 68.5*. damn! i really want to keep travel at ~4", which is why i was looking at the Hammerhead.

one think i haven't found yet is how reliable the SC bearings/ bushings are. i haven't even really looked into that yet, though.

perhaps the Titus Moto-Lite is the bike i'm looking for?
 

Sherpa

Basking in fail.
Jan 28, 2004
2,240
0
Arkansaw
the Inbred said:
hm, some new frames have entered into my realm of thought. including a Blue 4X and the Iron Horse MKIII (slightly). both suspension designs concern me a little. VPP sees lots of criticism, and praise, while the DW-link is still fairly new.

since i've ridden the HH100X, i've been sort of leaning towards the 5 Spot, simply because of the slacker HT angle. the bb height on the 5 Spot is 13.25, while the bb height on the Blur 4x is 12.5....ouch. i like the 23.5" tt on the Blur, though, as compared to the 23.9" on the Spot.

but that headtube angle on the Blur...my plan is to run a Pike, and i assume that's what SC used to get it's angles...a Pike set at 100mm. with that, the HT angle is 68.5*. damn! i really want to keep travel at ~4", which is why i was looking at the Hammerhead.

one think i haven't found yet is how reliable the SC bearings/ bushings are. i haven't even really looked into that yet, though.

perhaps the Titus Moto-Lite is the bike i'm looking for?

Moto-Lite looks good.

I just orderd a Mk.III from Supergo. Insane price.

http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=26069&lsubcat_id=7&lcat_id=7604&referpage=
 

greenchris

Turbo Monkey
Jun 24, 2005
1,381
0
DA BEARS.
vpp imo is wonderful im riding an intense 5.5 although you said over 4 inches would be too much what about the spider???same design as the santa cruz but added bling :thumb: