Fisher and Trek, why not?

CBJ · Sep 17, 2004

I will take an IH over does companies for so many reasons.

CBJ · Sep 17, 2004

Well I think IH is working hard on changing that or did they just go to Eurobike to learn how to drink beer

zedro · Sep 17, 2004

CBJ said:
I will take an IH over does companies for so many reasons.

like? because of popularity?

people are too keen to jump all over companies like Trek. If they try something new its labelled 'gimmicky', if its a refined version of a pre-existing concept its 'uninspired', if its built with better quality than alot of the cheap crap around today its 'OMG i'm not paying that for a Trek'.

the quality or parts and construction kicks the tail off alot of the similar designs out there, but yeah, the reality check is you need to pay for quality construction.

DHCorky · Sep 17, 2004

I do not see Trek making any big pushes to become a part of the DH/FR market. They are to tied up with Lance and Road bikes. There is nothing wrong with them doing this but it just means nothing for us.

As for Gary Fisher, they seem more interested in coming up with crazy new bikes. They have a very hippie aproach to things and want stuff to be simple and be your lifestyle. I also wonder if they have much of a R&D department for developing long travel dependable bikes.

CBJ · Sep 17, 2004

No because I think IH gives good service, have a great value for money, have an a very accessible company where you hear directly from Todd and DW what has gone into the product so you know what you are buying. I think Trek is to me is very unaccessible and I have no idea of what they are trying to do. You can read an review in a mtb mag but then its Treks words passed through some guy testing the product. I could not care about popularity of any brand. I know what I like and thats what I buy.

MtnbikeMike · Sep 17, 2004

DHCorky said:
I do not see Trek making any big pushes to become a part of the DH/FR market. They are to tied up with Lance and Road bikes. There is nothing wrong with them doing this but it just means nothing for us.

As for Gary Fisher, they seem more interested in coming up with crazy new bikes. They have a very hippie aproach to things and want stuff to be simple and be your lifestyle. I also wonder if they have much of a R&D department for developing long travel dependable bikes.

Have you seen their(Trek's) new stuff? It seems to be quite a push.

Westy · Sep 17, 2004

DHCorky said:
I do not see Trek making any big pushes to become a part of the DH/FR market. They are to tied up with Lance and Road bikes. There is nothing wrong with them doing this but it just means nothing for us.

As for Gary Fisher, they seem more interested in coming up with crazy new bikes. They have a very hippie aproach to things and want stuff to be simple and be your lifestyle. I also wonder if they have much of a R&D department for developing long travel dependable bikes.

You do know that Trek owns GF?

dan-o · Sep 17, 2004

math2014 said:
Ok zedro has some points that i agree to. And these points were the reason that i posed the question about the 77 and the fisher...

Anyone has actually seen the frames?

I saw them both at eurobike...the Trek looks like it had some thought put into it. The fisher didn't do anything for me but none of their bikes do. Overhearing that tool Zap talk up how 'core the bikes are, after all his FR/DH bashing over the years, made me laugh pretty hard.

Echo · Sep 17, 2004

I'm no fan of Trek or Fisher, and they are definitely way late to the game, but it can only be good for the DH/Freeride "scene" to have a big maker like Trek in there.

MtnbikeMike · Sep 17, 2004

CBJ said:
No because I think IH gives good service, have a great value for money, have an a very accessible company where you hear directly from Todd and DW what has gone into the product so you know what you are buying. I think Trek is to me is very unaccessible and I have no idea of what they are trying to do. You can read an review in a mtb mag but then its Treks words passed through some guy testing the product. I could not care about popularity of any brand. I know what I like and thats what I buy.

Yeah, Trek's huge network of dealers makes them totally inaccessible. :rolleyes:

Roasted · Sep 17, 2004

DHCorky said:
I do not see Trek making any big pushes to become a part of the DH/FR market. They are to tied up with Lance and Road bikes. There is nothing wrong with them doing this but it just means nothing for us.

As for Gary Fisher, they seem more interested in coming up with crazy new bikes. They have a very hippie aproach to things and want stuff to be simple and be your lifestyle. I also wonder if they have much of a R&D department for developing long travel dependable bikes.

Thats about to change. This past week has been a secret testing ground for a lot of shops (40ish I think) from around the states to come and test the new GF dh rig (yes...a dh bike...single pivot like the diesel) and the session (good god I want one) as well as a lot of new parts from non dh companies (bontrager dh tires... :drool:

(they are rumoured to be amazing)) There is definately someone stirring the pot over in those companies.

Up close and personal they look like amazing bikes. Unfortunately no public testing. But after talking with some of the shop owners and test riders (very biased opinion of course) "The session feels awesome, tracks well and the adjustable bb really lets you dial the bike. "..."These tires are amazing in the wet. They don't slip. Best tires I have ridden"...Didn't get a comment of the GF dh...as I have no interest in the bike. Looks like every other SP out there (I know there is pivot location differences...but its still just a SP) There are other xc companies testing dh stuff here this week but forgot who they were, sorry.

Matt D · Sep 17, 2004

I haven't researched the '05 line much yet, but the problems that existed with the Sugars/Fuels have been around for a while. The rear chainstay always cracks, and they know it. They have a great warranty dept. though that will hook you up.

Based on the excellent warranty & CS, I buy from either company without question. I've been stoked on my Cake ever since I got it.

You may want to think about the fact that these are reputable companies' first FR bike, and that if it doesn't go well, they may not make more. In other words, there is a slight possibility they'd make a limited # of them and you wouldn't have replacement parts down the road. I highly doubt that would happen, but it's something to consider.

And about Fisher being a hippie company; if hippie means being extremely involved and dedicated to the sport of mountain biking, its culture, and racing, as well as supporting its dealers and customers, then I guess they are a bunch of hippies.

MTB_Rob_NC · Sep 17, 2004

math2014 said:
I ve seen on mtbr a chaos on breakages of Sugar and Fuel frames, should i or we say that the 77 or the kingfisher will have the same fate? or does trek learn from her mistakes?

I was a huge Sugar fan, I loved my Sugar for almost 3 solid years, 2 main frames, and 6 swing arms. (I now ride a Heckler). I can tell you first hand that Trek/Fisher do learn from their mistakes. I was a test mule for one of their improved swing arms, and it did last much longer. In addition, the design flaw of the Sugar/Fuel was that the chain and seat stays were designed to FLEX, so much so that it accounted for almost 1 full inch of travel in the design. Now this was ok for the XC race crowd hucking off of a curb or taking a root at speed, but the failures really started to show when the "aggressive trail riders" started taking the Sugar +'s to task. Now having only seen pictures of the new bikes they look like the took that design feature OUT and they are more traditional linkage driven pivots. (and beefy ones at that).

it doesn't appear that Trek/Fisher are pushing the design envelop on any of their new FR/Aggressive Trail bikes, but with their purchase power, dealer network and competitive pricing they do not look like a bad way to go.

Just my $0.02

DHCorky · Sep 17, 2004

MtnbikeMike said:
Have you seen their(Trek's) new stuff? It seems to be quite a push.

I have seen it. I work at a Trek and G.F. shop. What they are working on is good but knowing these companies they could do so much more. When you see what Trek puts into a road bike the new DH/FR bikes seem to be just a small side project.

CBJ · Sep 17, 2004

MtnbikeMike said:
Yeah, Trek's huge network of dealers makes them totally inaccessible.

I am talking about Todd and DW answering questions right here on RM. I don't know how much you visit this forum but I have not seen Trek og GF doing something like that and that to me is something I value. I don't think we are talking about the same kind of accessibility and rolleyes is not necessary its a discussion forum and I am just expressing my point of view and I am not bashing Trek og GF.

grizgal · Sep 17, 2004

I just returned from the Fisher/ Trek "secret" testing. I tried the new Liquid 55 (with the added links in the rear), King Fisher (7 inch travel single pivot,) the Trek Session 77, and the new Bontrager components - tires etc...

First of all, I do think the company is making an effort to not only join, but also grow the freeride movement. These bikes and components are the beginning, but rumor is they are already making a 10 inch travel bike for next year.

I really liked the King Fisher. It was my first taste of a single pivot design. The bike handled well on technical turny trails as well as jumps and drops. The fork it has works well with the design - Sherman SPV I believe. People were skeptical of the steap seat tube angle - but I think it works well for this design with both pedalling and cruising. I would def. use this bike for freeriding and possibly race it.

The Session 77 was a great feeling bike as well. The standover was quite a bit taller bc of the linkage system - but not bad for a 7 inch bike. I was impressed with how it pedalled - much like a trail bike. It also felt good going off drops. The bb height is lower than the king fisher - which people seemed to like (I def. did.)

The bontrager tires....wow. Definitely the "grippiest" tires I've ever used on both wet and dry. The 2.7's were more like a 2.6 and same with 2.5's on the trail bike. The bars and stems were strong and not super-heavy. Wheelsets were amazing as well - pregressive hub design.

I'm really impressed with all 3 bikes- I think Trek and Fisher (and Shandro) are in this for the long haul.

klunky · Sep 17, 2004

erm cracking fuels and sugars? there not exactly "hardcore" bikes. they are designed to be as light as possible and have around 3" travel!
I like the Gary fisher bign'ns range seen them yet?

MtnbikeMike · Sep 17, 2004

DHCorky said:
I have seen it. I work at a Trek and G.F. shop. What they are working on is good but knowing these companies they could do so much more. When you see what Trek puts into a road bike the new DH/FR bikes seem to be just a small side project.

I don't think that if Trek doubled the amount of money that went into those bikes, they'd get double the return(it is a business after all). Being a big company, they are in a position, especially coming into the FR market, that in order to sell bikes to an already skeptical crowd, they need to put out bikes that aren't necessarily revolutionary. For example, if it was Trek instead of Intense and Santa Cruz that brought back the VPP, would VPP bikes be 'all the rage'?

klunky · Sep 17, 2004

MtnbikeMike · Sep 17, 2004

math2014 said:
any ideas on prices for the king fisher and the 77? Will they offer frame only options?
I know that the king fisher has lifetime warranty (more than 3yrs ) what about the 77? 1yr?

MSRP is $3,409.99, and I would guess yes on the Lifetime Frame Warranty.

MtnbikeMike · Sep 17, 2004

But of course.

DHCorky · Sep 17, 2004

If Trek was the one to bring back the VPP it probably would be all the rage. If it is a good design people are going to like it and praise it.

I am not talking about just a money stand point of Trek's interest in DH/FR. Trek as a whole is focused on Lance and the tour. How could you not be. They are making new DH/FR bikes because there is a market out there. They are in no way trying to revolutionize or become one of the top companies. The new bikes they have are not even "new" they are just old designs with some new tweaking. They might be good bikes(I have not ridden any) but they are in no way pushing the envelope of bike design.

Look at the companies that have decided to commit to the DH/FR side of the industry. Ironhorse had there first round of bikes but they were not satisfied and now have the DW link. Specialized decided to step in and came out with the Demo 9 and now Demo 8. Trek Tried with the Diesel and failed now they do not even have a DH bike just some freeride models.

klunky · Sep 17, 2004

Trek Tried with the Diesel and failed

yeah i bet they are really upset at coming 2nd in the world champs :nuts:

Specialized decided to step in and came out with the Demo 9 and now Demo 8

im sorry but the horst link is nothing new or exciting, infact its becoming old hat to most manufacturers

DHCorky · Sep 17, 2004

klunky said:
yeah i bet they are really upset at coming 2nd in the world champs :nuts:

And the sale of diesiel frames is through the roof now :rolleyes:

klunky said:
im sorry but the horst link is nothing new or exciting, infact its becoming old hat to most manufacturers

Specialized has modified it and made improvments, and those changes are selling lots of bikes.

klunky · Sep 17, 2004

really? I thought the demo bikes were still just a horst link with a new lower shock position?

zedro · Sep 17, 2004

CBJ said:
I am talking about Todd and DW answering questions right here on RM. I don't know how much you visit this forum but I have not seen Trek og GF doing something like that and that to me is something I value. I don't think we are talking about the same kind of accessibility and rolleyes is not necessary its a discussion forum and I am just expressing my point of view and I am not bashing Trek og GF.

thats because Sports Chek and Supergo arent the best to deal with :eek:

(dont kill me guys!).

At my Trek dealer, the shop is in a position to make a certain amount of warranty claims ON THEIR OWN, meaning i could walk in with a broken frame and walk out with a new one the next minute (this might of changed, and it depens on dealer volume as well). The last time i saw an IH, it was in Sports Experts, a dept. sports store (yes i know this is changing, again dont kill me).

My point is, its a stupid point. Once i buy the bike, should i really care that a company rep trolls mtb boards? i can pick up a phone and call a company CS rep and ask for a part, or i can post on RM, wait a day, then get a response to call them for the part. Online presence is not what i base my purchases on.

or maybe it gives you some kind of sense of security....i have a blanket for that.

DHCorky · Sep 17, 2004

They are not major changes. Just things like the extra stay that stiffens the rear of the bike. The shock location allows for sub 17" chainstays, most bikes are 17.5 or longer. The lower C of G makes for a much better handling bike then traditional horst link bikes.

Fisher and Trek, why not?

wannabe curb dropper

year old fart

wannabe curb dropper

year old fart

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

wannabe curb dropper

year old fart

Turbo Monkey

the teste

Turbo Monkey

crooked smile

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

wannabe curb dropper

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?

Monkey

year old fart

Chimp

wannabe curb dropper

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

wannabe curb dropper

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

wannabe curb dropper

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey