At about $90 for the set, one could take another approach and regard XTs as disposable. Mine have been dead reliable over years, but I'm not a DH boi...
Fixing Shimano Wandering Bite Point
- Thread starter Lelandjt
- Start date
That's where I'm at. The wandering bite point doesn't bother me much, but my issue is leaky piston seals. Because I can't find a better feeling lever than Shimano my solution is just to replace rotors and pads every year. The RT66 rotors and Jagwire pads are both relatively inexpensive.
Clearly you shouldn't have to do that, but for $50 per year... boom, good as new.
Err, that's a different issue, leaking out of the MC and air in the system if the bar is going to the lever. The wandering bite point makes them pump up, so you've been death-braking for a bit, let off thinking they'll cool a bit and you'll be able to grab them just right when you need em again, and the lever is way far out, significantly decreasing your leverage and therefore braking. Doing a "double" pump resets it, but on real steeps this isn't a realistic option. IME, that is the "wandering bite point". It doesn't have to be super-extreme braking, but it's anywhere that you have to brake hard, let off, and brake again.
I could be wrong as to the cause, but they pumped right back up after a few pumps, and I never saw a hint of a leak around the MC while riding in super dusty conditions. The bite point just happened to be after the levers had hit the bars. After some pumps, they went right back to normal. Like when a dog shits on the carpet while looking you in the eye, and then trots off as though nothing was wrong.
Point being, I never saw a hint of a leak either at the caliper or the lever. I bled them multiple times (each), and randomly the bite point would change. Most of the time it would just be further back than I expected, and a few pumps and they'd be back to normal. It was only a few times that the levers hit the bar before that bite point came, but it's real fuckin bad when that happens. And they'd always come back with a few pumps.
If that was because of the MC, than so be it, I always assumed it was because of the piston problem, but the point is, that these brakes have had at least one problem that can cause a horrific crash, and maybe multiple since they came out, and they haven't fixed after the better part of a decade these brakes have been out.
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with being the only one who wont ride Shimano brakes. The same brake has been coming on these bikes for the past 8 years now? How has everybody who's ever owned some not experience this problem at some point? Is everybody just kind of okay with them being totally disposable items? Or am I the only one who has this issue and it was truly a one off?
Point being, I never saw a hint of a leak either at the caliper or the lever. I bled them multiple times (each), and randomly the bite point would change. Most of the time it would just be further back than I expected, and a few pumps and they'd be back to normal. It was only a few times that the levers hit the bar before that bite point came, but it's real fuckin bad when that happens. And they'd always come back with a few pumps.
If that was because of the MC, than so be it, I always assumed it was because of the piston problem, but the point is, that these brakes have had at least one problem that can cause a horrific crash, and maybe multiple since they came out, and they haven't fixed after the better part of a decade these brakes have been out.
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with being the only one who wont ride Shimano brakes. The same brake has been coming on these bikes for the past 8 years now? How has everybody who's ever owned some not experience this problem at some point? Is everybody just kind of okay with them being totally disposable items? Or am I the only one who has this issue and it was truly a one off?
lmao I risked my life with zees for years, it was a rush
having to pump the lever for them to work while gunning down a trail is hella cool
having to pump the lever for them to work while gunning down a trail is hella cool
I have had some experience with having to pump, but no to the bars failure to date.
There are few things as scary as the lever to the bar on a proper DH run. I replaced the Zees with Hopes and although they don't have as much effortless power as the Shitmanos, their consistency is heavenly.
QFT. I've got V4s and E4s on my bikes now. They don't have the outright power of the Saints, or the power and short throw of the Trickstuffs but they've relatively affordable for me and have been pretty much consistent through every type of weather and condition I've put them through.
You guys have seen that frankenbrake thread udi started in 20 fucking 15 right?
Read the first page of it. And welcome to the club. We told you they all do it dammit
Read the first page of it. And welcome to the club. We told you they all do it dammit
Well I still like the Saintguras on the trail bike. But, on the 2nd set of levers now.
There's been times when I actually giggle when hitting the brakes with my new MT-5s. There's just so much power. no need to squeeze and hope; just a light feather and it's like dropping an anchor. I've literally laughed out loud at times.
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"We can believe that things are perfect just the way they are in that exact moment. And – yes – they will be different in the next, but will still be perfect."
The Dominions are my current favorite brake out of what I have. The light lever pull and big power is nice for arm pump and long runs. I’d like less lever throw but when topped up with oil they feel almost great. I would like to try the Trickstuffs though.
Thx for the head up. They are both tempting tbh with Hayes being more gentle on the bank account. On the other hand I don't want to end up spending money on the Dominions and in the end still end up buying the DRTs. Hello @Udi I know your answer.
I have been riding a lot of steep stuff of lately and it looks like my speed went up again. I'm a bit struggling with the power on my R0Rs, even with the Trickstuff power pads which they eat up like cheese in wet conditions. My riding mates on Saints can simply brake later.
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I've done some research and mountain bike brakes aren't on this list, it's safe to buy Hayes.
@buckoW did you try to adjust the bite point with the "factory" adjuster? Hayes did matket these brakes as having a very short throw with the timing port being placed close to the lip of the seal on the MC.
A buddy of mine used this adjuster to make the throw longer because he likes that... maybe you can use it the other way?
A buddy of mine used this adjuster to make the throw longer because he likes that... maybe you can use it the other way?
Apparently Hayes sends them out with that adjuster at minimum throw from the factory.
This looks to be the case. I adjusted it but it didn’t make the throw shorter.
I’m liking the Cura 2 as well but I haven’t had them for very long.
Stoics ride Shimano - where ever the bite point happens to be is simply perfect.Why Acceptance Is The Answer to Most of Your Life's Problems
Instead of expecting, you should be accepting. See what it means to practice acceptance in daily life and find peace:
"We can believe that things are perfect just the way they are in that exact moment. And – yes – they will be different in the next, but will still be perfect."
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You don't want to also tell @Flo33 about the lever-to-bar problems which you told me about?
Classic industry guy telling half the story.
Long/varying throw, needing forced top up for decent throw (not actually a fix, for anyone who knows how a standard open-system brake works): sounds like a questionable replacement for Saint with most of the same problems.
I think they are much better than the Saints. Topping up the Hayes every ride? Definitely not.
What brakes are on your list and why is it hard to believe the Hayes work well?
What brakes are on your list and why is it hard to believe the Hayes work well?
No shit...
To my knowledge topping up or over filling an open-system brake is always going to be a temporary solution, like Udi said, don't you agree? How often do you have to top them up? My buddies who are riding Saints are riding them for one year, they are sponsored and get a new set every season. And during the season they are bleeding them at least every two months with the Marsh method. I'm not very keen to do this. At the moment I've got R0Rs and they seem to start to develop issues. They are ~2 years old now, they wear down the pads in a non parallel way, the rotor entering side is always worn down way before the outgoing. I started to swap them every one or another ride, but that's annoying too, uninstall the wheels, take out the pads, push back the pistons, install pads, install wheels, align brake caliper to rotor. I guess the piston quad rings are done, as I lubed the pistons in August with Finish Line Fluoro grease to no effect. During the last couple of rides the rear brake suddenly started to drag during climbs, no free stroke. A few hard pulls on the lever seems to fix it. I don't know if I'm willing to replace all the parts on the rear brake just to do the same at front in a few months.
So I'm looking at alternatives and the only ones left are Trickstuff DRT or Hayes Dominions, but the latter seem to have their issues as well.
I did ride the brakes I bled with the poutine and they seemed to be better, but it was hard to assess in AZ without the same kind of steeper sustained DHs in WA. There was still some hard braking and steep, the wandering point "seemed" to be reduced, but I won't be able to tell much until later in winter as I get more time on the other bike that I bled with it.
and yet here we are reading them, and posting in them!
There's poutine in AZ?! two of my favourite things in one place!
Supposedly thin enough to fit through the ports in the MC and actually allow the brake to work like an open system, unlike the stock mineral oil. Also supposedly stable over a wider range of temp, especially cooler temp.
8000s and 9000s, as discussed in this thread: https://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/shimano-br-m8120-vs-br-m8020-shimanos-new-4-piston-brake-set-1104147.html#post14466633
That sounds intriguing...do you have a source on the TRP master cyl/lever assemblies alone? Quadiem or the Slate levers?
I don’t.