[Udi]

Honestly I just got bored of trying to convince tightwads complaining about their brakes (on a daily basis here, in case no one noticed) that there was value in a brake which cost 2-3 times as much and solved all the problems. The logic here on this particular topic is exceedingly high. In fairness, I was dubious (even uninterested) in the Direttissima myself until I actually rode the brakes on Fabien Cousine's bike back in 2016.

Fair point. But, more of my Shimano brakes have been replaced under warranty than have not. And although Trickstuff mfg Seems to addressed most or all of the known issues they are still new. If a 5-6 year old pair is still good as new, then id agree with you.

I've had my pair over 2 years now and I've only bled them a single time. I went a bikepark season without having to bleed or touch them once, ran multiple pad sets to backing. Rinse + repeat. First season that I brought my bleed kit home un-used. The lever throw / bite point and also general mechanical action has remained very consistent, easily moreso than every other brake on the market.

I've also ridden CousCous' original pair which had been retired to his trailbike, which from memory were at the 4-5 year mark as they were a prototype (in hideous colours), and at that point there is no comparison because you'll never even see 4-5 year old brakes on a professional DH rider's bike these days. The reason is because there's no chance any will last that volume of actual downhill miles. They looked rough but they were still functionally very good.

Brake failure is a safety issue, it can cause injury or ruin an expensive lift season. Getting easy warranties isn't even remotely a solution to me, but if it is to others then I'm happy for them.

I even took a series of photos of the rear brake lever throw on multiple downhill brakes in the house at mid-season point (without bleeding) to illustrate, in the end I just didn't bother sharing because honestly - where do I get paid or compensated to convince anyone?

Every brake can feel great (for three runs) after someone forcibly tops them up with fluid, but over a season without any bleeding or maintenance, these things are easily superior to every other brake on the market. I don't think anything's perfect, but these are close enough to it that (as most will have noticed) I've stopped posting about brakes and mostly stopped contributing to the brake thread, even though I still think it's important.

Why? Because brakes aren't a problem anymore.
When things just work, you forget about them.

 

[toodles]

Hope V4's

No problems in 5 years.
Half the price (?)
Reliable. Not one issue.
Goodridge lines available.
Made in England.
On all 3 bikes now.

I'm as pro-Hope V4 as anybody, but there's some significant differences between them and the Trickstuffs. The Hope power isn't remotely comparable to the Trickstuffs, and the lever throw is massive by comparison.

I'm still running V4s for the time being and the foreseeable future though. I've got E4s on the Smuggler, but I want to change to V4s as soon as a cheap set comes up or I can get some calipers. Why anyone would want to save 9 grams and go the E4s is beyond me TBH. the V4s are shitloads better.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

i've got 2 sets of XT way older than that. i'm getting nervous you guys.

Mine have been in service for four years now...

 

[jonKranked]

Mine have been in service for four years now...

I have one set of m780s that I got within a year of launch and I worry they're gonna Chernobyl me

 

[Jm_]

i've got 2 sets of XT way older than that. i'm getting nervous you guys.

They are not that bad if you are switching bikes every two years and not the recipient of said bike. What they are though are disposable brakes. Waste for the sake of waste. Like my parents that buy bottles of water all the time. The wandering point is annoying, but many don’t really notice or ride hard enough to notice.

I just got some hope 2-pots for my fatbike. Going to run massive rotors, but super light cut out rotors. Braking isn’t extended, but power is nice to control the big wheels.

 

[jonKranked]

They are not that bad if you are switching bikes every two years and not the recipient of said bike. What they are though are disposable brakes. Waste for the sake of waste. Like my parents that buy bottles of water all the time. The wandering point is annoying, but many don’t really notice or ride hard enough to notice.

I just got some hope 2-pots for my fatbike. Going to run massive rotors, but super light cut out rotors. Braking isn’t extended, but power is nice to control the big wheels.

The longest descents around here are maybe 300' and marginally steep at best. Maybe that's why they've last so long.

 

[Udi]

I've got some Juicy Ultimates on my commuter which are 13 years old and still going strong.
Possibly usage related but I doubt it, more likely they're the most reliable brake ever.

 

[StiHacka]

It still feels like $800 is a steep price for better pistons and seals.
#youcandobettershimano

 

[6thElement]

Pfft, I've posted it before but I'm still running a set of Elixir CR Mag's on one of my bikes

 

[slimshady]

It still feels like $800 is a steep price for better pistons and seals.
#youcandobettershimano

I've said this before, and will repeat it here: as Udi pointed out above, brakes are a safety device and should work every single time. Trickstuff's "innovations" aren't nothing worth a patent, they just do the right things in the right order. But they are a small batch producer AND a Monoclè brand. So they are entitled to charge whatever they want for a set of brakes that DO work every single time.

If the brakes on a Honda, Aprilia or KTM failed miserably the way most MTB ones do, the moto brands would be throwing off massive recalls every single year. And they would face a shitton of suing. The same applies to the car industry.

Meanwhile, we bikers are faced with the false dichotomy of having to put enough money to buy a decent dirt jumper towards what should be considered a decent set of brakes, or make the best of a set of disposable ones for a quarter to a third of said paramount brakes. Now go back to my first paragraph, and tell me how nobody with a degree in Law and a taste for gravity oriented mountain biking has never kicked Shimano on the nuts with a well deserved class action suit.

We have what we have because we have been taught every single component of our bikes should be good for a couple of seasons at most.

 

[William42]

So are there any brakes that aren't 800 dollars and aren't disposable pieces of shit or that pose a safety risk?

Seems like the new Dominions are fighting pretty hard for that spot. Anybody have anything negative to say? I'd give the Formula Cura 4's I put on my wife's bike more credit, but I just cannot get them to not feel squishy. Super fucking strong, seem reliable, but the lever feel is a solid "meh" at best.

 

[Jm_]

you mean $800 at once? as opposed to $800 spread over 3-4 years for brakes that aren't as reliable?

Trickstuff Dementia front and Hope V4 rear?

 

[Jm_]

So are there any brakes that aren't 800 dollars and aren't disposable pieces of shit or that pose a safety risk?

Seems like the new Dominions are fighting pretty hard for that spot. Anybody have anything negative to say? I'd give the Formula Cura 4's I put on my wife's bike more credit, but I just cannot get them to not feel squishy. Super fucking strong, seem reliable, but the lever feel is a solid "meh" at best.

Discussed in the other brake thread.

 

[Bikael Molton]

My Codes still work fine after 2000+ miles and probably 10 sets of pads.
Haven’t needed a bleed; no reason to replace.

I’ll probably get the cheapish Cura 2s to replace the XTs on my hardtail.

 

[jonKranked]

So are there any brakes that aren't 800 dollars and aren't disposable pieces of shit or that pose a safety risk?

Seems like the new Dominions are fighting pretty hard for that spot. Anybody have anything negative to say? I'd give the Formula Cura 4's I put on my wife's bike more credit, but I just cannot get them to not feel squishy. Super fucking strong, seem reliable, but the lever feel is a solid "meh" at best.

Not everything's a POS but outside of trickstuff pretty much everything has one compromise or another

 

[Nick]

I don't know if id say that about my Cura 2.

 

[mykel]

So are there any brakes that aren't 800 dollars and aren't disposable pieces of shit or that pose a safety risk?

Seems like the new Dominions are fighting pretty hard for that spot. Anybody have anything negative to say? I'd give the Formula Cura 4's I put on my wife's bike more credit, but I just cannot get them to not feel squishy. Super fucking strong, seem reliable, but the lever feel is a solid "meh" at best.

3 years on V4's without any issues of any kind.

Dominions - had one do the to the bar thing, bled and futzed with it with no luck. Hayes sent me a new brake direct when I asked for troubleshooting advice. No issues with the original rear or the new front - so far.

 

[William42]

3 years on V4's without any issues of any kind.

Dominions - had one do the to the bar thing, bled and futzed with it with no luck. Hayes sent me a new brake direct when I asked for troubleshooting advice. No issues with the original rear or the new front - so far.

Damn, sorry to hear that. I had high hopes. Maybe I'll give Cura 2's another shot. I've never cared for Hopes tbh. They're better than dragging my shoes, but only by a bit.

 

[Udi]

Seems like the new Dominions are fighting pretty hard for that spot. Anybody have anything negative to say?

Yeah, both people I know with them have had them fail at least once already. No thanks.
The build quality also looks like a 10 year old got access to a casting machine.

You can't get a US$800 brake for US$400, that's the bottom line.
While I agree with what slimshady said, I must disagree that there is some kind of niche-brand tax attached. The materials, build quality, and refinement in the DRT directly reflect the price. I guarantee everyone who says otherwise hasn't actually ridden or inspected them in-person.

Every brake which isn't the DRT makes some kind of compromise, the question is which compromise do you want to make?
My "decent brake, but with a compromise" shortlist is:

• Magura MT7: high peak force (~same as M820 and DRT), average build quality, reasonable throw length and throw consistency (rear throw eventually does grow longer), fairly good reliability; but poor lever ergonomics, poor lever body build quality, heavy.
• Hope V4: high build quality, high reliability; but long throw (again rear does slowly grow longer over a DH season), average peak force, heavy with braided hoses but overall throw (including squish) becomes too long with plastic hoses when used to lighten up.
• Cura 4: high build quality, very competitive weight (much lighter than above two, but still heavier than DRT), throw shorter than V4 (though still longer than DRT); not the firmest feel but possibly bleed related (I haven't used them long enough personally to know). They're also quite cheap from the right outlets.

The Cura 2 does NOT make the cut, the pad size is way too small for a 27.5" or 29" DH brake so either they glaze super fast (sintered) or wear super fast (organic/semi-sintered). Peak force also isn't the highest. If you're riding a trailbike and/or a small (26") wheeled bike then a lot of brakes like these can work fine, with the bonus of reduced throw and improved consistency, with the downside of decreased peak force.

Important to note is that high DH run counts (especially on steeper tracks) cause rear brake failure and throw increases on many brakes, however if your riding is primarily trailriding (i.e. larger percentage of your total ride time spent climbing, without repeated DH runs i.e. chairlift) then the brakes simply don't suffer the same kind of abuse.

I've seen the exact same brakes (with the exact same owner) used on their DH and trailbike, and one pair will develop issues while the other doesn't. When someone raves about a brake the first thing to question is their usage.

 

[slimshady]

While I agree with what slimshady said, I must disagree that there is some kind of niche-brand tax attached. The materials, build quality, and refinement in the DRT directly reflect the price. I guarantee everyone who says otherwise hasn't actually ridden or inspected them in-person.

Sorry, I should have stressed out more this. That's what I originally meant when I wrote my post. Economy of scale applies, and Trickstuff isn't machining a container worth of brakes every single day. Machining time is expensive, and the QC they put in every unit is also expensive. As you said, there aren't any corners they could cut.

 

[vinny4130]

@Udi that’s a pretty convincing endorsement/experience. I’ve had no problems with my Hayes and are my current favorite however, the only reason I didn’t get Trickstuff is the 9 month wait.

 

[jonKranked]

@Udi that’s a pretty convincing endorsement/experience. I’ve had no problems with my Hayes and are my current favorite however, the only reason I didn’t get Trickstuff is the 9 month wait.

The 9 month wait is ordering directly from trickstuff. Link was posted to somewhere that has them in stock.

 

[Flo33]

@Udi that’s a pretty convincing endorsement/experience. I’ve had no problems with my Hayes and are my current favorite however, the only reason I didn’t get Trickstuff is the 9 month wait.

r2-bike.com has blue in stock and 6-8 weeks wait on black and silver, 2-3 months on the hippy dippy fancy colors.

 

[mykel]

r2-shop.com has blue in stock and 6-8 weeks wait on black and silver, 2-3 months on the hippy dippy fancy colors.

I think you mean - r2-bike.com

 

[Flo33]

I think you mean - r2-bike.com

Sure, thx.

 

[Salami]

• Cura 4: high build quality, very competitive weight (much lighter than above two, but still heavier than DRT), throw shorter than V4 (though still longer than DRT); not the firmest feel but possibly bleed related (I haven't used them long enough personally to know). They're also quite cheap from the right outlets.

What is the consensus on power on these? I don't need the strongest brake, my SLX 7000 have more than enough power but now I am worried about dying if I continue to use them. A little longer lever stroke doesn't bother me as much so it sounds like a good compromise for me.

 

[Jm_]

Putoline hpx 2.5 - Google Search

Supposedly thin enough to fit through the ports in the MC and actually allow the brake to work like an open system, unlike the stock mineral oil. Also supposedly stable over a wider range of temp, especially cooler temp.

So I got some better testing in today in cold temps, on some steeper trails that replicate some of the steeper and more aggressive stuff I like to do. These are my M9000s.

Temp between +5 and -5F.

The good, lever action seems lighter, as in "normal", although this is still a good ways off from the -20 I've taken them down to.

The bad, the inconsistent bite point is as bad as ever. Grab one time, everything is ok. Release and grab again in short order and the lever is way further out. Do it again and it's damn near engaging all the way out. Lever is always nice and firm, no matter which grab/engagement point. Give it just a few seconds and it DOES reset, but that's not realistic under hard braking on steep stuff. You can't just "let go" completely for 2-3 seconds.

 

[Gary]

Anyone successfully fixed the Shimano wandering bite point feature yet?

 

[toodles]

Anyone successfully fixed the Shimano wandering bite point feature yet?

Seems like the only one who has is @Flo33

 

[toodles]

Bike24 also has them in stock and cheaper if anyone wants to stop trying half measures and feels rich.

 

[englertracing]

What is the consensus on power on these? I don't need the strongest brake, my SLX 7000 have more than enough power but now I am worried about dying if I continue to use them. A little longer lever stroke doesn't bother me as much so it sounds like a good compromise for me.

I think they are pretty good, like saints but with better modulation.

Gotta get all the air outa the rear though

 

[Jm_]

Good news,

r2-bike.com has blue in stock and 6-8 weeks wait on black and silver, 2-3 months on the hippy dippy fancy colors.

Or you can order this one-finger set today!

BRAKEFORCEONE Disc Brake BFO H2O 1-Finger Set, 594,00 €

BFO BRAKEFORCEONE disc brake BFO H2O 1-finger set The BFO-H2O is the first brake that is operated with simple water instead of a conventional brake medium I

r2-bike.com

 

[kidwoo]

I think they are pretty good, like saints but with better modulation.

They feel nothing like saints at the lever. I'd give them about 80% of the power of saints but given I've been using formula pads with them and saint pads with the saints it's hard to say what's what.

they're pretty strong, just feel like mushy shit at the levers if you're used to shimanos.

Gotta get all the air outa the rear though

IT'S NEVER OUT!!!! EVERY TIME, STILL MORE AIR.......AAGGGHHHHHHHH

 

[englertracing]

They feel nothing like saints at the lever. I'd give them about 80% of the power of saints but given I've been using formula pads with them and saint pads with the saints it's hard to say what's what.

they're pretty strong, just feel like mushy shit at the levers if you're used to shimanos.



IT'S NEVER OUT!!!! EVERY TIME, STILL MORE AIR.......AAGGGHHHHHHHH

I think powerwise they are the same as a saint. Saints feel powerful because they are on or off so skidding all the time makes them seem powerful.

To get the air out you need a bigger tool
200cc

 

[Bikael Molton]

Dumb question I know and probably covered already in the other thread, but would putting Shimano MCs on Curas give a stronger bite feel? In other words, does ServoWave work correctly with a non-Shimano caliper?

 

[kidwoo]

Dumb question I know and probably covered already in the other thread, but would putting Shimano MCs on Curas give a stronger bite feel? In other words, does ServoWave work correctly with a non-Shimano caliper?

Yes. I rode my cura2s like that for almost 2 years. But eventually they start doing the shimano thing.

 

[kidwoo]

Saints feel powerful because they are on or off so skidding all the time makes them seem powerful.

I dont skid.
I promise I know the difference.

I've got some john Holmes syringes, I'll give them a squeeze.

 

[englertracing]

You dont throw huge skidz?
Not even if you forgot to start strava?

Yeah give the john holmes a try see if it gets ya nice and firm
Your brakes of course

 

[Kurt_80]

Hope V4's

No problems in 5 years.
Half the price (?)
Reliable. Not one issue.
Goodridge lines available.
Made in England.
On all 3 bikes now.

They're supposedly weaker than Saints. Do you think going to 220mm rotors might remedy that issue?

 

[Electric_City]

They're supposedly weaker than Saints. Do you think going to 220mm rotors might remedy that issue?

Hey Kurt,
I've never understood the whole strength thing about brakes. So I'll explain it from my perspective.

I like to ride. Strength and reliability on my bikes are more important than weight, but cost can come into play. Why a Saint derailleur if Zee is 1/4 the cost and does the same thing?

As far as brakes? I could lock Hope V4's at any given moment with one finger braking with 203mm rotors when I was 321lb and it didn't take excessive pressure or something. Is that what people consider a "strong" brake? They work 100% of the time. I only bled them when they were new in 2015 when I cut the hoses to size. 2017 and 2018 are when I purchased my other sets and only did the initial bleed.

Maybe Shimano takes 300g of pressure and Hopes take 330g? Idk. I'm not that scientific about this stuff. I ride, they work, my hands aren't tired. To each their own though

In 2015 I was building up my Wilson and didn't want to go with Shimano cause of all the issues I read about (here we are 5 years later...)

I didn't want Avid cause I went through 4-5 codes on my Sunday cause the levers kept getting stuck in every year.

I took a buddy's bike for a stroll down the road and noticed how solid his brakes were. Lever and BPC adjustments were right there, the brakes grabbed nicely, modulable, powerful. I went back to the shop and ordered the V4's. The E4's (like toodles said) aren't worth it.

Like Udi said, I don't get paid to sell these or advocate for them (he-Trick stuff, me- Hope). But I'm a patroller at a local ski hill and would rather prevent injury. To each their own.

Hopefully this helps some. Are they as strong as the Saints? Give them a try. IME, they're definitely more reliable! If you don't like them, then you can sell them for almost as much as you bought them for. I sold my 2 year old E4's to a buddy for $20 more than I bought them for.