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Follow some more money?

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
From a Swedish paper:

A new profitable war

Do American pensioned servicemen give advices about the Iraqi war that benefit their own economic interests? That is the view of Consumer for Peace after they recently went through testimonys before the Congress (December 18th).

The pensioned four star general Barry McCaffrey, that have been advocating for an escalation ofthe war, sits for example on the boards of companies with billion dollar deals from the Pentagon: Dyncorp International, McNeil Technologies and HNBT.

Same thing is also done by the retired general John M Keane, who is considered to be the brains behind Bushes critisezed plan to send more troops to Iraq. Those who thought it was time to get the troops to come home were also the ones to have the least of economic interest in companies that work with the Pentagon.

The most war urging "hawk" within the Bush administration, Dick Cheney, gets a several hundred thousand dollar per year "pension" from Halliburton. Cheney also has shares in Halliburton, whos worth rose from $243.000 to over $8million last year, as shown in a report from senator Frank Lautenberg.

That is an increase by over 3200%. Halliburton has been assigned missions worth over $10billion to help Pentagon in the Iraqi war. Why does senator Frank Lautenbergs critisism of Cheneys business get so little media coverage in the US? A reason could be that media and the war industry has a close relationship.

Many pensioned generals with economic interests within the weapons industry are also those who comment war issues in the media. John M Keane, as an example, partisipates regularily as a defence expert on ABC-News. Barry McCaffrey does the same thing on NBC-news. But the relationship goes deeper than that.

In a study done by Sonoma State university showed that four out of ten of the biggest US media companies has board members that also work for the big weapons manufacturers.

If you ask them, all media companies will of course tell you that they are independent. But what would then be the point in having people from the weapons industry in media companies if they aren't there to influence?

In France Le Figaro is owned by the weapons manufacturer Dassault, while Le Monde sold it self to the weapons manufacturer Lagardiére. What synergy effects could exist between news manufacturing and the weapons manufacturing that makes the war industry that interested in the media?

Al Gore's film An Inconvenient Truth gives a good example of how easy media allows it self to get manipulated. From a random choise, from over 900 scientific studies on the greenhouse effect, there was no studie that questioned the existanse of the greenhouse effect.

But despite the scientific consensus that exists about this issue is overwhelming, half of the articles wrote that the greenhouse effect was a controversial issue among the scientists. To get the general public to belive that the greenhouse effect is an artifice that we don't have to worry about, is somehing that benefits some mighty interests.

The same thing is true about medias coverage of the alledged nuclear weapons threat from Iran. Despite that UN personel have been on location in Iran and haven't found one single evidence that it would have a secret nuclear weapons program, the articles about that issue have trippled in US press during the last few years.

To get the general public feel threatened by Iran can open for a profitable little war. If the war in Iraq ended the Halliburton shares would decrease in value and Dick Cheney would get a lot poorer. A new war against Iran would on the other hand make Dick Cheney and his friends a lot wealthier.


Pierre Gilly
 

dhbuilder

jingoistic xenophobe
Aug 10, 2005
3,040
0
oh yeah.
i'm sure some swedish news rag has it all together.
and they publish factual information without bias or social or political agenda.

if we're gonna start followin the $$$ around, i highly suggest we start with her royal highness miss billary clinton herself.
it's lookin like she's gonna be the first billion dollar candidate.

oh the stories those coins could tell.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,570
15,795
Portland, OR
Somebody is making money on this war? The hell you speak! Here I thought it was all spend, spend, spend.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
In other news, retired astronauts have been discovered working for aerospace companies, some of which have gone as far as advocating space travel!
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Apart from dhbuilder who seems to be out to take the title of Frother-in-Chief.
Apparently he's not here to make friends. I don't exactly know why he is here but it's not to spread cascades of ambrosia. He's an iconoclast, a man's man in a sea of pansyism. We should be admiring his rugged individualism and straight forward frontier logic. When they made him, they broke the.....the.....actually I don't know what was broken but something definitely didn't survive the process. I'm guessing it was his personality but that'd be just that...a guess.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Okay so what's the revelation? Just more of the same? Or did I miss how this is different?

Oh wait a minute I see the difference, it made General McCaffrey in favor of an escalation.

Testifying before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee in January 2007, Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, who commanded troops in the first Gulf War called the surge “a fool’s errand.” The New York Times reported McCaffrey said other countries had concluded that the effort in Iraq was not succeeding, noting that “our allies are leaving us
and will be gone by summer.”
And the numerous and consistent message about the escalation being a dumb idea that he has been touting on MSNBC for the last 3 months.

So either they are dumb and got their generals mixed up OR they just stuck any random General in knowing that the vast majority wouldn't know give a damn because it fit their preconceived notion. OR his current resume looked the most impressive and made their story look even more ominous.

At least it didn't attribute going to war with Iran as a good idea to him....... yet.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Okay so what's the revelation? Just more of the same? Or did I miss how this is different?
I think the issue is that none of the illegal* actions of this administration have been addressed. And there have been MANY!

The standard operating procedure of this PotUS is... when you screw up, screw up again so the whole damn thing becomes a blur and too overwhelming to tackle any one issue.

* troll word. Enjoy.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
I think the issue is that none of the illegal* actions of this administration have been addressed. And there have been MANY!

The standard operating procedure of this PotUS is... when you screw up, screw up again so the whole damn thing becomes a blur and too overwhelming to tackle any one issue.

* troll word. Enjoy.
What does that have to do with the article that was posted?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
What does that have to do with the article that was posted?
The article is about people in or former of this admin making a(n unreasonable?) profit, yeah?

The most war urging "hawk" within the Bush administration, Dick Cheney, gets a several hundred thousand dollar per year "pension" from Halliburton.
I don't really care if it's right or wrong as it's been proven time and time again that no one will take on this Admin's wrong-doings.

I was only answering you as to why something like this is being posted again... no answers were given before and some people feel like tilting at windmills.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
I posted it because quite a lot of the info in it was new to me, either as a whole or clarified it better. Now I new Cheney and the others in the administration had made a dump of cash on Halliburton, but to see how much the stock went up in actual figures gave me a better understanding of how much of a profit machine war is to some people.

The other things mentioned were stuff I/we partially knew or suspected, but I still find them deeply undemocratic and I will therefore continue to mention and show them when ever I can. That's the only way to fight them or they will dround in all that information that is out there.

oh yeah.
i'm sure some swedish news rag has it all together.
and they publish factual information without bias or social or political agenda.

if we're gonna start followin the $$$ around, i highly suggest we start with her royal highness miss billary clinton herself.
it's lookin like she's gonna be the first billion dollar candidate.

oh the stories those coins could tell.
Of course it's ridiculous to imply any such thing as that any media outlet or person has it all together, or without bias and without a social or political agenda. But instead of buying the self claimed "objectivity" of any prefered media, we should question that as we do with those we find dodgy.

More importantly we should get our information from as many opposing sources as possible and from there create our own objective view of the matter. Trusting the objectivity and independency assurances of any media source is like eating their spitouts and trusting their word on how that food initially tasted and felt like.

We shouldn't start with Billary, we should continue and put light on her aswell. I find her possision to be highly undemocratic. The only way to get elected to higher political positions in the US is by either being born wealthy or by the backup of commersial interests as sponsors.

These sponsors in their turn expect and get economic advantages in exchange for that backup. The right designation for such a system in not peoples rule, but money rule.

Somebody is making money on this war? The hell you speak! Here I thought it was all spend, spend, spend.
It's all spend, spend, spend for some of us brother...

In other news, retired astronauts have been discovered working for aerospace companies, some of which have gone as far as advocating space travel!
Sure, on a small comparatively insignificant scale. I find the lives and wellbeing of Iraqis to be a whole lot more important than that. Your democratic right to have your word heard just as clear as Dassault's or Rupert Murdoch's too.

Apparently he's not here to make friends. I don't exactly know why he is here but it's not to spread cascades of ambrosia. He's an iconoclast, a man's man in a sea of pansyism. We should be admiring his rugged individualism and straight forward frontier logic. When they made him, they broke the.....the.....actually I don't know what was broken but something definitely didn't survive the process. I'm guessing it was his personality but that'd be just that...a guess.
That was quite a heavy reaction. :pffeew: Didn't fully understand it eather, but it don't matter but one word; pansyism. My Greek isn't good enough, please explain.
Still, I've got to give him some cred for speaking and defending his mind. But him excusing the actions of Cheney and friends by showing the actions of another crook is wrong, and he should know better.

So either they are dumb and got their generals mixed up OR they just stuck any random General in knowing that the vast majority wouldn't know give a damn because it fit their preconceived notion. OR his current resume looked the most impressive and made their story look even more ominous.

At least it didn't attribute going to war with Iran as a good idea to him....... yet.
Dunno, he might made an error. There's no side that subscribes to truth. What ever he did, McCaffrey is no dove in my eyes.

L'Opie explained the rest best.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
The other things mentioned were stuff I/we partially knew or suspected, but I still find them deeply undemocratic and I will therefore continue to mention and show them when ever I can. That's the only way to fight them or they will dround in all that information that is out there.
Dunno, he might made an error. There's no side that subscribes to truth. What ever he did, McCaffrey is no dove in my eyes.
So if it happens to support your own views its okay to believe but if it doesn't it must be a lie? Or even worse it doesn't matter if its true or not just as long as it supports what you think?

Sounds like you and Dubya are just two different sides of the same stupid coin.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
So if it happens to support your own views its okay to believe but if it doesn't it must be a lie? Or even worse it doesn't matter if its true or not just as long as it supports what you think?

Sounds like you and Dubya are just two different sides of the same stupid coin.
Is that what you get out of it? Amazing. :rolleyes: Maybe what I said was that errors can be found everywhere; that we should question the info no matter where it comes from; that I don't know Tracy about general McCaffrey? The facts and figures presented in that article can be checked. Do it if you doubt this administration has made a ****load of dough on 9/11's aftermath.

Why do you want monopoly on information by those who you support? Shouldn't you take this info in as you do with the money sides enormous output so that you can get an objective view of things? And how come you have always have such a hard time beliving that this administration is totally corrupt, wicked and dishonest time after time after time?

If I and dubya are the same you should let me throat gag you as you let him. :shocked: Things should be equal shouldn't it? :D
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Over and over you claim that we are sheep being fooled by big brother into whatever tricks he has planned for us but what's odd is that you didn't even take the tiny bit of time to verify any of what the article said or what bias it might be spun from. Like I said it fit what you believe and away you go. I know not to trust anything I read so that's why I look first to see how much I can verify. If some of it is wrong then I **** can the whole thing and look to see if there is something more reliable in the same vein.

As for who's making money on this... well pretty much everyone is including those within your own countries arms industries in full sight of your own government.

If I and dubya are the same you should let me throat gag you as you let him. :shocked: Things should be equal shouldn't it? :D
You're the one that has given up your ability to think for yourself, not me. I know what's up because I realize that everyone has an agenda.

What's so funny is that you just froth away like the good little sheep you are. Chomsky will tell you what's okay to believe or not, as for me I'll continue to make up my own mind.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,383
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
cant we all just get along? i think that left and right, democrat and republican, healthcare lobbyist and arms dealer can agree that if we just put vaccines in all the bombs and bullets our troops use thereby preventing disease in all the little children we maim the world would be a safer and more profitable place for American corporations.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
and just because there is no way you'd actually question the article...

Why does senator Frank Lautenbergs critisism of Cheneys business get so little media coverage in the US?
What did he find? That Cheney has assigned all of his Halliburton stock options to charity. He signed a gift trust agreement 2 days before he took office. According to the agreement its "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended,"... The charities are the University of Wyoming, George Washington Medical school and Capital Partners for Education. The decision to sell those options is made by a trust administrator.

And the money's he received from Halliburton was deferred salary from the late 90's. Its a tax dodge that many executives who are leaving a company will do to reduce taxes by taking salary over a period of years instead of one big lump.

To say that he won't profit in some manner after he leaves office is absurd BUT at least get the facts straight. Though knowing Halliburton, I doubt seriously they are going to be forking over much to him after he's left office. However, since that contradicts what the article there is no way it could be true...
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
how much is rent in your lil' dream world?
10% of what you get to keep after tax from minimum wage.

Over and over you claim that we are sheep being fooled by big brother into whatever tricks he has planned for us
Yes and you not aknowledging the power that they have shows lack in gathering information from a variety of sources. I have reached my beliefs from collecting enough information about this matter to be convinced of that this is a fact and how it works. I am 100% positive you will reach the same conclusion having consumed enough information on that matter.

Meanwhile, please have the humbleness to acknowledge that you might not have obtained enough information about that matter to come to a different conclusion. Ask your self how much imformation about the Illuminati have come by you and from where.

but what's odd is that you didn't even take the tiny bit of time to verify any of what the article said or what bias it might be spun from.
No I didn't check any of it out, I let time handle it and obviously it did as you have some info on the matter I didn't have. That's why we post here isn't it, to exchange information and learn from it? There's plenty of verification on that this administration, including Colin Powell, has made a ****load of cash from their "war agaist terrorism" campaign.

A campaign that has required major cashflow to the war industrial complex, that has benefitted a few shareholders, that has been paid for by the US taxpayer (to answer a later question of yours). There was no need to question that as it is commonly known.

Also, why don't you comment the rest of the article. I find it repulsing that Big Cash and the war industry are teamed up so that they can affect our thoughts to further their wicked ways. I find it very strange that you are downplaying stuff like this by saying "Okay so what's the revelation? Just more of the same? Or did I miss how this is different? " Have you had enough of this, don't you think that Ismael Iraqison has had it too?

Like I said it fit what you believe and away you go.
I saw and I shared, I didn't go anywhere, I stand here, as ****ing far away from your president as possible. And actually, I think you are the one that "goes" every time I write/post something negative about your country, like it's not OK for anyone that's not a US citizen to have an opinion of the actions of your politicians and other countrymen. I don't know if that's it but there sure is something that sets you off...

I know not to trust anything I read so that's why I look first to see how much I can verify. If some of it is wrong then I **** can the whole thing and look to see if there is something more reliable in the same vein.
Good, that's how you should do it, but verification takes some time and sometimes that we don't have that time to spend on that. But if you do, maybe you should verify that reffering the article did about that study from Sonoma University.

As for who's making money on this... well pretty much everyone is including those within your own countries arms industries in full sight of your own government.
Not everyone, no sir, not those of us with a consiens. :pointingfingerwagingnono: You will never hear me defend weapons sales to countries that are on offensive wars. Sweden has a law that porhibits arms sales to waring nations. Our last prime minister, Göran Persson, said when questioned about the arms sales to the UK and US that "it's national interest to have a good relationship with those countries and that that is more important than to stand by ones principles" (freely expressed as I remember it).

I think he and everybody else involved in this should go to jail for braking that law and helping to pour fire on the Afghani and Iraqi people.

You're the one that has given up your ability to think for yourself, not me. I know what's up because I realize that everyone has an agenda.

What's so funny is that you just froth away like the good little sheep you are. Chomsky will tell you what's okay to believe or not, as for me I'll continue to make up my own mind.
C'mon, this has gone too far from both of us. I get anoyed or insulted when you say stupid stuff like that, and you in your turn probably get the same from stuff I say some times, and I know I shoot some off when I get anoyed. That's got to stop or at least used in a better way, like with examples, if the intention with it is to show something. Otherwise it's only comming of like sneaky insults.


To think for one self is a secondary thing as one can only think of those things that are known to one self. We need input from all sides in adequate proportions to be able to make those calculations as accurate as possible. Only after that has been adressed we then able to make our own minds up as we would otherwise predominantly be calculating stuff that has been put foth by those who have most influence over the information that reaches us.

Everyone has an agenda? I couldn't find a good definition of that word in Wikitionary but "what ought to be done". But please show what you mean by listing the agendas of Chomsky and this administration respectively.

look guys, i'm being a uniter, not a divider.
That's cus you listen to brother Bob all day while smoking herb. ;) No, I think it's good that you pointed that out, we've gone too far.

and just because there is no way you'd actually question the article...
Thing is that I actually think it's good that you are pointing this out.
But I'm not convinced on general McCaffrey, can you give me the link to where you got that quote from? I read about him on Wikipedia and I only found this quote from the summer of 2006:

"The situation is perilous, uncertain, and extreme — but far from hopeless. The U.S. Armed Forces are a rock. This is the most competent and brilliantly led military in a tactical and operational sense that we have ever fielded.... There is no reason why the U.S. cannot achieve our objectives in Iraq. Our aim must be to create a viable federal state under the rule of law which does not: enslave its own people, threaten its neighbors, or produce weapons of mass destruction. This is a ten year task. We should be able to draw down most of our combat forces in 3-5 years. We have few alternatives to the current US strategy which is painfully but gradually succeeding. This is now a race against time. Do we have the political will, do we have the military power, will we spend the resources required to achieve our aims?"
...which I don't find this be in his favor as he obviously cares about getting the mission accomplished rather than leaving the Iraqis and their natural recources in peace.

What did he find? That Cheney has assigned all of his Halliburton stock options to charity. He signed a gift trust agreement 2 days before he took office. According to the agreement its "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended,"... The charities are the University of Wyoming, George Washington Medical school and Capital Partners for Education. The decision to sell those options is made by a trust administrator.

And the money's he received from Halliburton was deferred salary from the late 90's. Its a tax dodge that many executives who are leaving a company will do to reduce taxes by taking salary over a period of years instead of one big lump.

To say that he won't profit in some manner after he leaves office is absurd BUT at least get the facts straight. Though knowing Halliburton, I doubt seriously they are going to be forking over much to him after he's left office. However, since that contradicts what the article there is no way it could be true...
First but not most important, please supply a link.

Second, this seems belivable but it falls on that the point of the article wasn't about Cheney or Halliburton in particluar, they were only an example of how his politics have benefitted their pockets. This article was about war in general and how it's been proffited by some powerfull people.

We need look no further but this administration alone to see what amount of money they have made and from what companies (Carlyle Group as an example). Forget single examples, this is about all their actions.

Maybe we should start a thread where we can gather all the dodgy things this administration has done in one place as they are soo many they're impossible to remember and therefore we lose perspective.
As Lord Opie pointed out:

The standard operating procedure of this PotUS is... when you screw up, screw up again so the whole damn thing becomes a blur and too overwhelming to tackle any one issue.