[dan-o]

Thats not exactly accurate either. For the record mileage in any vehicle for business purposes can be reimbursed/written off at $0.35 a mile. The tax break that we all maybe discussing specifically benefited heavy consumer vehicles(ie Navigator, H2's etc). I believe (because I am too lazy to go an look it up) any vehicle with a gross vehicle weight of more than 6000lbs can be considered farm equiptement and the purchase price be written off as a depreciable expense in the year it was purchased.

You are correct, I was referring to the heavy vehicles and their specific tax break since the thread topic was about the Excursion. I think that 6,000lbs limit is correct too. All I know for sure is that my brother needed an F250 to haul materials for his small business and that he saved mucho bucks thanks to the tax break.

 

[narlus]

The tax break that we all maybe discussing specifically benefited heavy consumer vehicles(ie Navigator, H2's etc). I believe (because I am too lazy to go an look it up) any vehicle with a gross vehicle weight of more than 6000lbs can be considered farm equiptement and the purchase price be written off as a depreciable expense in the year it was purchased.

burly, this was the crap i was talking about. how many excursions or H2s do you see on the farm? i have no problem w/ tax incentives for contractors/farmers, etc but i do have a problem when those same savings are passed on to people who slap commercial plates on the behemoths when they are not necessary.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

i think you'd be hard pressed to say yr denali is more practical than my odyssey. see my comment about being brainwashed by madison avenue.

My Denali works great in the snow from sea level to 6000 ft.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

burly, this was the crap i was talking about. how many excursions or H2s do you see on the farm? i have no problem w/ tax incentives for contractors/farmers, etc but i do have a problem when those same savings are passed on to people who slap commercial plates on the behemoths when they are not necessary.

You don't need to do anything special other than itemize your deductions on your tax return. The Auto industry did not write the tax loop hole, last time I checked on congress and the IRS can do that. Some goddamn accountant found it and now everyone is taking advantage.

Damnit, I am both an accountant and in the auto industry. It is probably my fault.

 

[narlus]

My Denali works great in the snow from sea level to 6000 ft.

and there are no AWD minivans?

 

[N8 v2.0]

burly, this was the crap i was talking about. how many excursions or H2s do you see on the farm? i have no problem w/ tax incentives for contractors/farmers, etc but i do have a problem when those same savings are passed on to people who slap commercial plates on the behemoths when they are not necessary.

The free market will ultimately determine if these vehicles will continue to be produced or not...

Environmental whacko's, soccer moms elitists, and auto manufactures don't really have the control over the situation they like to think that they do.

 

[BurlyShirley]

burly, this was the crap i was talking about. how many excursions or H2s do you see on the farm? i have no problem w/ tax incentives for contractors/farmers, etc but i do have a problem when those same savings are passed on to people who slap commercial plates on the behemoths when they are not necessary.

So because SOME people take advantage of a tax loophole, Bush and GM are sending black briefcases full of cash to one another. Got it. You guys make it sound like SUVs cant be used to haul horse trailers or other crap like that just as well as a truck can. Its the SAME THING just with seats instead of a bed. WHY IN GOD'S NAME DO YOU CARE? If a small business can afford to buy an SUV because of a tax break, and they dont use it necessarily to its max capacity, where is the harm done? Small businesses are getting breaks, big business is selling cars which keeps job in detroit. I dont get the problem. I really dont.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

auto manufactures don't really have the control over the situation they like to think that they do.

We have more control then you think
:eviltongu :devil: :eviltongu :eviltongu :devil: :eviltongu :eviltongu :devil: :eviltongu :eviltongu :devil: :eviltongu

We know how much you make, where you live, where you work, where and how fast you drive.

 

[BurlyShirley]

and there are no AWD minivans?

AWD minivans with ground clearance are called SUVs and those are EVIL, just so you know.

 

[narlus]

The free market will ultimately determine if these vehicles will continue to be produced or not...

Environmental whacko's, soccer moms elitists, and auto manufactures don't really have the control over the situation they like to think that they do.

exactly. and the terms "free market" and "tax break" aren't exactly bedpartners, are they?

 

[narlus]

So because SOME people take advantage of a tax loophole, Bush and GM are sending black briefcases full of cash to one another. Got it. You guys make it sound like SUVs cant be used to haul horse trailers or other crap like that just as well as a truck can. Its the SAME THING just with seats instead of a bed. WHY IN GOD'S NAME DO YOU CARE? If a small business can afford to buy an SUV because of a tax break, and they dont use it necessarily to its max capacity, where is the harm done? Small businesses are getting breaks, big business is selling cars which keeps job in detroit. I dont get the problem. I really dont.

see my comment about paying the true cost of the product (ie, the environmental impact these vehicles produce is not taken into account).

 

[BurlyShirley]

see my comment about paying the true cost of the product (ie, the environmental impact these vehicles produce is not taken into account).

...and as somebody already pointed out, these vehicles run quite clean. Way cleaner than probably an average car from the 80s, which are still on the road. Why not lobby against them? Your point is gone.

 

[dan-o]

see my comment about paying the true cost of the product (ie, the environmental impact these vehicles produce is not taken into account).

Please give examples of any products you have purchased that had pricing which represented the "true cost".

 

[BurlyShirley]

Please give examples of any products you have purchased that had pricing which represented the "true cost".

his hemp shoes.


Im just messing with you dude.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

see my comment about paying the true cost of the product (ie, the environmental impact these vehicles produce is not taken into account).

You ALWAYS pay the "true" cost. Those costs are factored into the price of doing business by the company. Wether they factor them correctly or not is what makes for a long standing financially sound company.

 

[narlus]

...and as somebody already pointed out, these vehicles run quite clean. Way cleaner than probably an average car from the 80s, which are still on the road. Why not lobby against them? Your point is gone.

yeah, we've made some advances in the last two decades. point is, there's an order of magnitude more cars on the road. at least. back in the 80s, how many high school kids had cars? not many. how about now? btw, i don't see many cars from the 80s up here. the road salt eats 'em for breakfast.

 

[narlus]

Please give examples of any products you have purchased that had pricing which represented the "true cost".

good question, because i think i see where you are getting at (ie, indirect costs in terms of energy usage). problem is, i don't think it's quite quantifiable, at least not yet. hell, the US is about the only country which doesn't agree that global warming is occurring, so it'll be a while until we get there.

 

[zod]

back in the 80s, how many high school kids had cars? not many. how about now?

All of them had cars..................but I did go to private school

 

[BigHit-Maniac]

My Denali works great in the snow from sea level to 6000 ft.

And does your "Denali" have big bling bling chromes on it?

I bet you've never once taken it offroad either...



For snow there's MUCH better things than Denali's. They're called Subaru's & Saab's. Better MPG, better handling, cheaper to maintain, and they sure look a lot better to. (none of that gigantic BOX on wheels crap).

Sorry, I'm an SUV hater big-time. Especially in the town I live in. They're not even soccer mom mobiles here. They're pure status symbols with no more than 2 passengers. :angry:



Sorry, but you big-suv-driving-suburbanite-wastes-of-space can kiss it.

 

[zod]

Yea, you don't have the right to spend your money the way you see fit...........damn you and your Denali

 

[Toshi]

brian has a denali because his wife feels safer in it. end of story. dumb, but you can't argue with that perception either.

the fact that emissions on a suburban are lower than of a car from the 70s is irrelevant. the true comparison is with modern cars, and emissions on a modern CAR are much lower than of heavy trucks, including the f250 category which is often used for personal use judging from what i see in the pac nw. see the many LEV and ULEV models out there, as in the honda car lineup.

 

[Toshi]

Yea, you don't have the right to spend your money the way you see fit...........damn you and your Denali

finally, i agree with this, but it assumes a free market. however, narlus' point is being lost: special tax breaks for heavy vehicles are counter to the free market, and should be abolished.(in addition i'd require that f250 and f350s contribute to the CAFE, and that their emissions be regulated as cars, since i don't buy BS's "they're all blue collar contractors!" spiel one bit.

 

[narlus]

brian has a denali because his wife feels safer in it. end of story. dumb, but you can't argue with that perception either.

madison avenue, once again.

 

[N8 v2.0]

exactly. and the terms "free market" and "tax break" aren't exactly bedpartners, are they?

Ah... but those tax breaks not only sell cars but they keep folks working in the auto plants who buy stuff from other people keeping them employed who buy more stuff etc...

 

[Toshi]

Ah... but those tax breaks not only sell cars but they keep folks working in the auto plants who buy stuff from other people keeping them employed who buy more stuff etc...

you're not describing a free market. what are you, a commie? heh

 

[N8 v2.0]

brian has a denali because his wife feels safer in it. end of story. dumb, but you can't argue with that perception either.

Don't let the fact that a Denali is going to much safer in an accident cloud yer conclusion here.

 

[N8 v2.0]

you're not describing a free market. what are you, a commie? heh

Well... someone lets those stupid United Auto Workers vote...

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Ah... but those tax breaks not only sell cars but they keep folks working in the auto plants who buy stuff from other people keeping them employed who buy more stuff etc...

pfft... you have a distorted view. It is the UAW that keeps those folks working in the auto plants. If not the jobs would have been shipped over seas years ago. Making products more affordable. Giving more $ into the end users pockets. When in turn would be spent else where creating jobs and so on and so on and so on

 

[Toshi]

Don't let the fact that a Denali is going to much safer in an accident cloud yer conclusion here.

if the denali rams another car head on, yes, she'll be safer. if she crashes into part of the scenery she'd be better off in a car.

(i realize that a f150 and denali are different vehicles, ford vs. gm and all that, but this is illustrative.)

http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTestingMINICooperVsFordF150

 

[N8 v2.0]

if the denali rams another car head on, yes, she'll be safer. if she crashes into part of the scenery she'd be better off in a car.

(i realize that a f150 and denali are different vehicles, ford vs. gm and all that, but this is illustrative.)

http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTestingMINICooperVsFordF150

Here... I'll help you.. the 2004 GMC Yukon is rated

: http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/Cars/2796.html

 

[narlus]

toshi, thanks for the link. very interesting material.

 

[zod]

Yes let's get rid of all tax breaks......I agree because I truly believe in a free market. But lets also end things like subsidized public tansportation. Let people pay the real price of their choice of travel.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

and there are no AWD minivans?

I think mini vans look like crap IMO, whats wrong with SUV's? Oh yeah, and its easier to tow a boat with an SUV, can your Odyssey tow a boat?

 

[BurlyShirley]

finally, i agree with this, but it assumes a free market. however, narlus' point is being lost: special tax breaks for heavy vehicles are counter to the free market, and should be abolished.(in addition i'd require that f250 and f350s contribute to the CAFE, and that their emissions be regulated as cars, since i don't buy BS's "they're all blue collar contractors!" spiel one bit.

Im not saying they "all" are, Im saying that its becuase of them that these tax breaks exist, not that they're the ONLY ones who benefit from it. For a bunch of folks who are always complaing about Wal Mart and Star Bucks, you ought to be hailing such help for the little guy, but since your blind hatred of 'minivans with ground clearance' and 'trucks with seats instead of a bed' (take your pick) obviously supercedes common sense, you keep harping on soccer moms and status symbols.
If you have an issue with emissions and gas mileage issues, that's fine. Im sure everyone who drives one would LOVE to have cleaner air and spend less on gas, but to label the vehicle as useless, evil, stupid, etc... because YOU dont like how they're used is retarded.

 

[Toshi]

Here... I'll help you.. the 2004 GMC Yukon is rated

: http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/Cars/2796.html

and the 2001 F150 extended cab pictured above got 4 stars for driver front impact protection, and 5 for passenger front/side and driver side impact. what's your point?

 

[narlus]

I think mini vans look like crap IMO,

madison avenue owns you.

In the history of the automotive industry, few things have been quite as unexpected as the rise of the S.U.V. Detroit is a town of engineers, and engineers like to believe that there is some connection between the success of a vehicle and its technical merits. But the S.U.V. boom was like Apple's bringing back the Macintosh, dressing it up in colorful plastic, and suddenly creating a new market. It made no sense to them. Consumers said they liked four-wheel drive. But the overwhelming majority of consumers don't need four-wheel drive. S.U.V. buyers said they liked the elevated driving position. But when, in focus groups, industry marketers probed further, they heard things that left them rolling their eyes. As Keith Bradsher writes in "High and Mighty"--perhaps the most important book about Detroit since Ralph Nader's "Unsafe at Any Speed"--what consumers said was "If the vehicle is up high, it's easier to see if something is hiding underneath or lurking behind it." Bradsher brilliantly captures the mixture of bafflement and contempt that many auto executives feel toward the customers who buy their S.U.V.s. Fred J. Schaafsma, a top engineer for General Motors, says, "Sport-utility owners tend to be more like 'I wonder how people view me,' and are more willing to trade off flexibility or functionality to get that." According to Bradsher, internal industry market research concluded that S.U.V.s tend to be bought by people who are insecure, vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, who are frequently nervous about their marriages, and who lack confidence in their driving skills . Ford's S.U.V. designers took their cues from seeing "fashionably dressed women wearing hiking boots or even work boots while walking through expensive malls." Toyota's top marketing executive in the United States, Bradsher writes, loves to tell the story of how at a focus group in Los Angeles "an elegant woman in the group said that she needed her full-sized Lexus LX 470 to drive up over the curb and onto lawns to park at large parties in Beverly Hills." One of Ford's senior marketing executives was even blunter: "The only time those S.U.V.s are going to be off-road is when they miss the driveway at 3 a.m."

whats wrong with SUV's? Oh yeah, and its easier to tow a boat with an SUV, can your Odyssey tow a boat?

i would never own a boat personally (a huge money sink, imo) but yes it can.

"The Odyssey can tow up to 3,500 pounds when equipped with an optional towing package."

 

[Toshi]

Im not saying they "all" are, Im saying that its becuase of them that these tax breaks exist, not that they're the ONLY ones who benefit from it. For a bunch of folks who are always complaing about Wal Mart and Star Bucks, you ought to be hailing such help for the little guy, but since your blind hatred of 'minivans with ground clearance' and 'trucks with seats instead of a bed' (take your pick) obviously supercedes common sense, you keep harping on soccer moms and status symbols.
If you have an issue with emissions and gas mileage issues, that's fine. Im sure everyone who drives one would LOVE to have cleaner air and spend less on gas, but to label the vehicle as useless, evil, stupid, etc... because YOU dont like how they're used is retarded.

you're confusing me with someone else. i drive a SUV, a small/midsized one like yours. i use it 99% on road, altho it has seen some offroad miles. what i object to is a) tax breaks for vehicles above 6k gvw, and b) the fact that such vehicles don't contribute to CAFE and don't have to meet car emissions standards.

i think it's stupid that women have been driven to think that suvs are safer and men have been seduced by the macho image to grossly generalize , yes, but my objections are the above two points, not over madison ave's sway.

 

[-dustin]

just found out my aunt bought an Excursion. decked out, too. i wanna drive it.

 

[N8 v2.0]

and the 2001 F150 extended cab pictured above got 4 stars for driver front impact protection, and 5 for passenger front/side and driver side impact. what's your point?

What's yours? Ancidotal evidence based on some internet picture that a Yukon is in fact less safe in an accident than a Mini Cooper?

 

[BurlyShirley]

madison avenue owns you.



i would never own a boat personally (a huge money sink, imo) but yes it can.

"The Odyssey can tow up to 3,500 pounds when equipped with an optional towing package."

Ok, so what makes you mini-van any different than a smaller SUV then? It obviously has a comparable engine size to be towing such a thing. You mean to tell me your all mad about ground clearance and slightly bigger tires?

And Im sure you know that bigger SUVs would easily haul a boat much better, among other things that a minivan cant. I dont see where your issue is at all.