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kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
Just so I'm clear... We have established now that:

Raptor > Subaru > 3/4 ton pickup

Right? :confused: :think:
No, we have established that nothing equals everything and everything equals nothing.

Mathmatically speaking we've come to the conclusion that this thread lost focus of the ford raptor pages ago.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,123
1,102
01776
Mathmatically speaking we've come to the conclusion that this thread lost focus of the ford raptor pages ago.
oh hey i herd about the rapt0r it's a pretty cool car i think it would be really good for getting over the potholes in the city n my frenz can ride in the back once we put some seat back ther.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
Lots of pickups have pretty ****ty approach and departure angles these days, too, not to mention all the under-door flimflam that owners add since they can't step into the damn things in the first place.

While out on the "high clearance 4x4 only" roads in Capitol Reef Natl Monument back in 2003 with my old Pathfinder I saw exactly one other vehicle on a 60 mile loop: a stock Forester. They probably scraped their bumper going through some gullies but they were out there.

"South Desert Overlook", Capitol Reef National Monument:
I understand your high clearance roads just fine, and a forester is just fine for those, no argument there. the argument came in when the forester dude claimed it was more capable off road than a full size 4x4 truck, which it clearly is not.

Sure departure and approach angles are not what they used to be on fullsize trucks, but they are still better than a forester.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
488
Im over here now
not all 3/4 ton trucks are clumsy. Dodge's new PowerWagon comes equipped from the factory to tackle most off-roading and it is quite capable too



 
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stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
14,337
1,470
Colorado
I understand your high clearance roads just fine, and a forester is just fine for those, no argument there. the argument came in when the forester dude claimed it was more capable off road than a full size 4x4 truck, which it clearly is not.

Sure departure and approach angles are not what they used to be on fullsize trucks, but they are still better than a forester.
This again comes down to where and how.it will be used. Is a forester a better off-road vehicle than a pickup truck? No. Is a forester more than enough of an off-road vehicle to suffice on he roads Mooshu will likely be taking his truck on? Yes.
 

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
1,045
0
NY
likely :rofl:

Irony of Demo9 being one of the few actually using his truck, regardless of who actually wrote the check
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
Well no offense, but that's a joke, and wouldn't use that as a means of qualifying what is a capable off-road vehicle and what isn't.

Here's a pretty popular and typical Jeep trail here in western Mass .....good luck getting a Forester up this.
We did that trail last spring (2010):



I agree that Forester would not get far there. And a stock Raptor even with it's power and locked rear end and travel would have a tough time with it's width and 133" wheelbae. We got a slightly modded Disco I thru but it was a lot of work and it suffered some trail damage. I wouldn't want to ding up the bright red paint and graphics on a $40k+ truck if I paid for it.

Funny enough, that XJ in your vid is a great rig for value, capability, size. It's probably equal to or better than the Forester in everything but MPG (although a VW diesel would solve that: http://blogs.jpmagazine.com/6667601/editorials/easy-jeep-vw-tdi-diesel-swap/index.html).

But for what MOST people use their suv and pickups for a Forester is plenty capable. And the Raptor is way overkill and goes against a lot of what I think a pickup should be (but I love it anyways)
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,662
1,482
Tustin, CA
The Raptor isn't meant to rock crawl. It's meant to haul ass through the desert. Personally, I don't find enjoyment in trying to drive up rocks when I could just hike it in 30 seconds. To each their own though.
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,556
0
I'm homeless
This again comes down to where and how.it will be used. Is a forester a better off-road vehicle than a pickup truck? No. Is a forester more than enough of an off-road vehicle to suffice on he roads Mooshu will likely be taking his truck on? Yes.
Man, you just keep getting dumber and dumber, I'm ganna have to send you my asshat, you don't even know where I take my truck.....
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,556
0
I'm homeless
The Raptor isn't meant to rock crawl. It's meant to haul ass through the desert. Personally, I don't find enjoyment in trying to drive up rocks when I could just hike it in 30 seconds. To each their own though.
well seeing as how 600 horse isn't **** for a diesel, you could do it on a cummins truck too......
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,662
1,482
Tustin, CA
Man, you just keep getting dumber and dumber, I'm ganna have to send you my asshat, you don't even know where I take my truck.....
:picsstfu:

I will also call BS on the fact you are going anywhere you couldn't get to in a Subaru...or a freaking Camry for that matter. I got no problem with you saying you wanted a truck over a 4 Runner, but the other reasons you are using to justify it, like reliability, are absurd.

well seeing as how 600 horse isn't **** for a diesel, you could do it on a cummins truck too......
Um. No.

There's a reason diesel trucks aren't built into pre-runners. I've owned diesel trucks. They are good at a lot of things...hauling ass in the desert isn't one of them.
 

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,316
36
Spreckels, CA
im sorry, youre terribly wrong.
Top 3 in the Dakar were VW TDi's and were fastest of all categories
Off road knowledge dick measuring aside, I think what he meant was 600 hp Cummings Ram would have a pretty hard time keeping up with a raptor in the dez.

I'd also bet pretty much any other stock production truck would have a hard time keeping up with a raptor in the desert.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
488
Im over here now
Off road knowledge dick measuring aside, I think what he meant was 600 hp Cummings Ram would have a pretty hard time keeping up with a raptor in the dez.

I'd also bet pretty much any other stock production truck would have a hard time keeping up with a raptor in the desert.
you put a properly setup diesel in a chassis setup like the Raptor, then yes it will more than keep up with it.

edit: Chevy's answer to the Raptor was shown with a diesel btw.
 
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kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,662
1,482
Tustin, CA
Yes, a diesel setup like that chevy pictured would keep up with a Raptor. I was referring to diesels currently offered for sale in the US. F250s, 2500s and Cummins arent exactly candidates for high speed desert trucks. I was referring to diesels as they are sold, not referring to the type of engine.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,662
1,482
Tustin, CA
i see what you are saying.
that GMC has a stock Duramax btw. :)
I loved having a diesel and would buy another one in a heartbeat. I would just like to have ability to buy a smaller diesel in a smaller pickup...or even the current offerings in the regular truck (F-150, Tundra, 1500 etc). That GMC would be a beast. I'd buy something like right now if they made one.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
16,061
3,276
Nowhere Man!
I took a Transit XLT for a test drive. Seems like the perfect vehicle for me. If I wasn't moving I would like to get one. It did pretty well in the snow. Nice van.
 

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,316
36
Spreckels, CA
you put a properly setup diesel in a chassis setup like the Raptor, then yes it will more than keep up with it.

edit: Chevy's answer to the Raptor was shown with a diesel btw.
Good lord dude. My statement was thrown out there with the sole purpose of comparing whatever cummings diesel 3/4 ton truck TheMontashu is driving vs a raptor.


Chevy's concept is still a concept. VW's Dakar buggys are still only driveable if you're some sort of enduro racing savant. Find me a diesel truck I can go down to the dealer today and buy that will haul butt in the desert like a raptor.
 

blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,797
120
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
i photographer the baja1000 and in one of the production truck classes some dudes were running a dodge diesel. No idea how they did.

I'd think the right diesel in the right chassis could be everybit as competetive in the desert as a raptor. But Ford hasnt made that F150 yet.
 

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
1,045
0
NY
I took a Transit XLT for a test drive. Seems like the perfect vehicle for me. If I wasn't moving I would like to get one. It did pretty well in the snow. Nice van.
For a move would seem as the perfect time to get one if your going for it...
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
488
Im over here now

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
you put a properly setup diesel in a chassis setup like the Raptor, then yes it will more than keep up with it.

edit: Chevy's answer to the Raptor was shown with a diesel btw.
I like that, a lot. :thumb:

Really cause 1000 hourse sounds like it might haul ass through the desert....
ever heard the term power to weight ratio?

Diesels have their place, desert racing isn't really their place.

Most desert trucks spin high RPM, and need to be lightweight. Diesels don't spin fast, and they aren't light, the gas motor is still a better platform.

Going fast in the desert is not about power, its about suspension, power never hurts, but suspension is key.

Making a light truck handle well in the desert is easier than making a heavy truck handle well.
 

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
965
0
Denver
On the topic of people not using their truck/SUV/etc off road. Last summer I was heading to Aspen over Hagerman Pass here in Colorado. The only thing on the trail were 2 Wranglers in front of me and a jacked up Land Cruiser behind me. Its not super gnarly, but its a 4x4 trail.

2/3 of the way up the pass we saw a Toyota Corolla. How it got there I have no freaking clue. Apparently they were stuck before a big rock garden (that I went through in 4x4 low) and couldn't go back because it was too steep (4x4 but not low for me). There were mild rock gardens, creek crossings and snow drifts that they went through to get to that point that I was shocked the car got that far.