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Fork choices.

4xBoy

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
7,208
3,207
Minneapolis
Fox 34 grip2
Cane creek MK2 air

I need/want a 140mm fork, trying to decide if I should run fox again or just stay with cane creek.
 
SylentK

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,634
1,084
coloRADo
jackalope said:
As per the RM policy, I will avoid answering the posted question and give you a recommendation you didn't ask for:

Manitou Mattoc

I say that because if its anything like my Mezzer, it's a fantastic bump stick
Click to expand...
Marzocchi Z1 ;)

Speaking of balls, my new Fox 36 is loud as balls. WTF Fox? Silence is golden.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,667
7,022
jackalope said:
As per the RM policy, I will avoid answering the posted question and give you a recommendation you didn't ask for:

Manitou Mattoc

I say that because if its anything like my Mezzer, it's a fantastic bump stick
Click to expand...
Why not just run a Mezzer at 140? You can never have too burly a fork.
 
M

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,774
532
4xBoy said:
Fox 34 grip2
Cane creek MK2 air

I need/want a 140mm fork, trying to decide if I should run fox again or just stay with cane creek.
Click to expand...
I have a 130mm ‘22 Grip2 34 on my little bike. It’s good, but it’s almost the opposite of a helm, imo.

the helm forks I’ve ridden were pretty heavily damped overall, and I rode them mostly open.

My experience is that the fox forks n have recently shifted to much lighter damping, and am running my grip2 compression fully closed high and low (along with 25psi over fox’s recommend pressure) to get enough support, but rides really nicely for me like this.

ymmv and all that, hope it helps.
 
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HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,667
7,022
Cerberus75 said:
A twin airspring will help keep the fork riding higher most the time on a hardtail that's nice. Good deal at Jenson right now on the Mezzer.
Click to expand...
I got mine for something like 900AU, works well on the hardtail, I dig it but I am starting to get a little bit of movement in the bushings.
 
Dogboy

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,215
618
Durham, NC
marshalolson said:
I have a 130mm ‘22 Grip2 34 on my little bike. It’s good, but it’s almost the opposite of a helm, imo.

the helm forks I’ve ridden were pretty heavily damped overall, and I rode them mostly open.

My experience is that the fox forks n have recently shifted to much lighter damping, and am running my grip2 compression fully closed high and low (along with 25psi over fox’s recommend pressure) to get enough support, but rides really nicely for me like this.

ymmv and all that, hope it helps.
Click to expand...
Hold on just a dang minute. What do you mean coming in here and espousing information based on first hand experience about BOTH forks the OP was inquiring about? This is Ridemonkey pardner, and you best get out of here with that nonsense!
 
William42

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
4,012
771
I currently have a helm. I mostly like it a lot. I used to work at Cane creek so I'm biased probably, but I don't work there anymore.

There are some features I like a lot and use pretty regularly. Having an individually adjustable negative air chamber is pretty cool, because you can control top of the fork softness pretty easily, and you can also drop the fork if you have a long climb ahead of you. In general I like the air spring on that fork a lot.

Damping is solid, but I have mixed feelings about it. I feel like I have to ride pretty hard for it to come into it's own (I weigh 175lbs, so I'm on the light weight side) and there are definitely days where I want to ride more chill and I wished it had some lighter compression settings so I didn't have to work so hard for it. On days when I am riding hard, there's nothing about it that I'd really want to change at all. It's predictable, keeps me in the appropriate spot in the travel, makes bumps feel less harsh, and tracks the ground pretty well.

But it has developed a creak in the crown after riding on it for about 2.5 years, which is a pretty negative thing for me. As it's past 2 years old, it is unfortunately out of warranty so that's a pretty significant bummer. To Cane Creeks credit, I saw the warranty rates on those crowns and the amount of them that needed new crowns when they came in for general service (which was frequently well past 2 years of use) and they're pretty damn low, so I think I really am an unlucky outlier, but it still sucks and is worth mentioning. Nates also putting it on the tab as a crash replacement so I'm not paying retail for it, so I don't feel like they're leaving me in the lurch or anything. Just a bummer.

I've only spent a little bit of time on a 34 but it seemed like the compression was pretty light based on my friends settings. I didn't really spin his dials much though because I didn't want to fuck up his shit. It was definitely lighter than the lowest compression settings I can get on my Helm MK2. Maybe a good thing maybe a bad thing depending on your weight and riding style. I liked the air spring in it, there was nice progression at the end without feeling particularly soft at the top or mushy in the middle. I'm pretty light though so YMMV.
 
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kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,149
13,358
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
4xBoy said:
Fox 34 grip2
Cane creek MK2 air

I need/want a 140mm fork, trying to decide if I should run fox again or just stay with cane creek.
Click to expand...
I only buy products endorsed by the loam wolf

theloamwolf.com

Review: Motion E18 Linkage Fork

Yes, they are weird looking! But does the performance on the trail overpower the vanity in our souls? We spent several months asking ourselves the same question.
theloamwolf.com theloamwolf.com

That was written 3 years ago, right before these forks became ubiquitous and the mtb standard that all others are now emulating
 
SkullCrack

SkullCrack

Monkey
Sep 3, 2004
709
145
PNW
kidwoo said:
I only buy products endorsed by the loam wolf

theloamwolf.com

Review: Motion E18 Linkage Fork

Yes, they are weird looking! But does the performance on the trail overpower the vanity in our souls? We spent several months asking ourselves the same question.
theloamwolf.com theloamwolf.com

That was written 3 years ago, right before these forks became ubiquitous and the mtb standard that all others are now emulating
Click to expand...
I won't buy anything that doesn't have the ChiliDog stamp of approval.
 
two-one

two-one

Monkey
Dec 15, 2013
204
208
Eindhoven, the Netherlands
William42 said:
I currently have a helm. I mostly like it a lot. I used to work at Cane creek so I'm biased probably, but I don't work there anymore.

There are some features I like a lot and use pretty regularly. Having an individually adjustable negative air chamber is pretty cool, because you can control top of the fork softness pretty easily, and you can also drop the fork if you have a long climb ahead of you. In general I like the air spring on that fork a lot.

Damping is solid, but I have mixed feelings about it. I feel like I have to ride pretty hard for it to come into it's own (I weigh 175lbs, so I'm on the light weight side) and there are definitely days where I want to ride more chill and I wished it had some lighter compression settings so I didn't have to work so hard for it. On days when I am riding hard, there's nothing about it that I'd really want to change at all. It's predictable, keeps me in the appropriate spot in the travel, makes bumps feel less harsh, and tracks the ground pretty well.

But it has developed a creak in the crown after riding on it for about 2.5 years, which is a pretty negative thing for me. As it's past 2 years old, it is unfortunately out of warranty so that's a pretty significant bummer. To Cane Creeks credit, I saw the warranty rates on those crowns and the amount of them that needed new crowns when they came in for general service (which was frequently well past 2 years of use) and they're pretty damn low, so I think I really am an unlucky outlier, but it still sucks and is worth mentioning. Nates also putting it on the tab as a crash replacement so I'm not paying retail for it, so I don't feel like they're leaving me in the lurch or anything. Just a bummer.

I've only spent a little bit of time on a 34 but it seemed like the compression was pretty light based on my friends settings. I didn't really spin his dials much though because I didn't want to fuck up his shit. It was definitely lighter than the lowest compression settings I can get on my Helm MK2. Maybe a good thing maybe a bad thing depending on your weight and riding style. I liked the air spring in it, there was nice progression at the end without feeling particularly soft at the top or mushy in the middle. I'm pretty light though so YMMV.
Click to expand...
I rode a Helm (mk1) for a while and liked the chassis stiffness, but the damping was too firm when you are not charging hard.
I also noticed the air spring changed character when increasing travel. At 160 or 170mm, the negative air spring became quite small, and the thread-in sealhead caused expansion of the left stanchion, so at those travels it was binding in the lower bushing.
Best used for aggressive <150mm travel
 
William42

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
4,012
771
two-one said:
I rode a Helm (mk1) for a while and liked the chassis stiffness, but the damping was too firm when you are not charging hard.
I also noticed the air spring changed character when increasing travel. At 160 or 170mm, the negative air spring became quite small, and the thread-in sealhead caused expansion of the left stanchion, so at those travels it was binding in the lower bushing.
Best used for aggressive <150mm travel
Click to expand...
Agreed on the MKI

The MKII uses a different air spring that's better tuned around 160, and then has pucks that can be/are installed if you buy it at a lower height) to fill the negative air chamber to maintain the appropriate volume.

Damping can be lower in MKII compared to MKI, and the change in stantion design that moves away from threading the damper in and moves to a clip also reduces binding. Overall there are some subtle improvements in the MKII over the MKI that amount to some pretty big changes in overall feel.

But its still setup to run more compression damping, and if you like a light compression tune, that's something to be aware of.
 
konifere

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
607
753
I just got my (new) Mk1 coil back from warranty (had a broken checkvalve spring) and I like it. Running it wide open compression-wise, I wouldn't mind a few clicks more, but I just need to ride harder and it comes alive. @William42 do you know if the Mk2 damper can be retrofitted in the Mk1 and if it's way expensive or not too bad?
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
10,630
AK
Just to say it better,

The fixed needle orifice cares, but when the needle orifice (LSC) chokes and attempts to engage the HSC, the HSC doesn't care, the flow through there is essentially non-compressible and it's the movement of the shims by the fluid (variable orifice) that is creating the damping, at that point, it really doesn't matter what the weight of the oil is.

This is why changing the oil weight usually doesn't do much. It's all you could do with some really cheap orifice dampers like old marzocchi crap. Having played around with both extensively, in the cold it was the bath oil creating the biggest issue for fork movement on my Mastodon in the winter. The usually-heavy bath oils get really sticky at cold temps.
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,657
1,143
La Verne
bullcrew said:
Have 2 kids (10) I back total rippers and both 80Lbs lol...can use the fox 38s...so we split oil weight and now they are using full travel...opened up circuit a smidgen

1 has back flips a 20' air bag and ramp other frequents woodward....
Click to expand...
They already have no damping with 5w?
 
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