[slimshady]

... and I'm not talking about a unicycle, but about a MBA graduate project from the Kyoto Seika University in Japan. Enter the "Forkless Bike FL-01 Outset":

Wanna make it worse? It's a 29er. I wonder if Ropelato would ride it...

I'll say it first: needz moar cablez.

 

[jonKranked]

do the herp-a-derp

 

[rollertoaster]

What a horrible idea, that thing has an effective head angle of about 110 degrees.

 

[slimshady]

do the herp-a-derp

I don't know what I like more about it, if the Acera rear derr or the seatpostless design

 

[TrumbullHucker]

 

[OGRipper]

Is it "forkless" because it has forks?

 

[slimshady]

Is it "forkless" because it has forks?

I'd bet they mistranslated it. Must surely say "pointless" instead.

 

[dump]

I'd love to see that thing being ridden. The geometry looks pretty weird in the pictures... short wheelbase (does it grow when seated?), long reach to handlebars, low seat.

 

[blindboxx2334]

Is it "forkless" because it has forks?

glad to see im not the only one who sees a fork on that bike.

 

[mattmatt86]

Still probably rides better than the rederp bike

 

[Bikael Molton]

that sucks

 

[StiHacka]

Godzilla wants her bike back.

 

[Bikael Molton]

not sure what could be worse, an MBA graduate-designed mountain bike or one of those euro graphic designer Tron-abortion commuter concepts.

These things are shat out on a daily basis by dudes who clearly don't ride, and have no respect for the history or engineering that's been put into bicycles for 100+ years.

 

[imp]

On a serious note, though it doesn't deserve it--
Even if it had good geo, even if it was stiff and light, it would have the same problem as every non-conventional front suspension bike in history. Bimota Tesi, all the girder BMWs, the telelever ones-- they all lack feedback. You read about it in every magazine review and no one seems to understand the fundamental problem. So far, only a fork with a direct line from the axle to where your hands attach communicates all the little vibrations necessary to read traction. As soon as you put a linkage in there, or connect the damper far away from the hands, that sensation is gone. /whine over

 

[Bikael Molton]

On a serious note, though it doesn't deserve it--
Even if it had good geo, even if it was stiff and light, it would have the same problem as every non-conventional front suspension bike in history. Bimota Tesi, all the girder BMWs, the telelever ones-- they all lack feedback. You read about it in every magazine review and no one seems to understand the fundamental problem. So far, only a fork with a direct line from the axle to where your hands attach communicates all the little vibrations necessary to read traction. As soon as you put a linkage in there, or connect the damper far away from the hands, that sensation is gone. /whine over

For my own edification, what are those designs hoping to achieve? Was it just about reducing flex?

The Britten moto is the only one of those I find interesting, though I have no clue how the "fork" performed.

 

[Sandro]

For my own edification, what are those designs hoping to achieve? Was it just about reducing flex?

The Britten moto is the only one of those I find interesting, though I have no clue how the "fork" performed.

The main selling point of the Telever designs was a reduction of braking induced fork dive, which they did pretty effectively.

 

[Wetbed0]

The main selling point of the Telever designs was a reduction of braking induced fork dive, which they did pretty effectively.

But without brake dive of some sort, things feel sketchy. I've ridden a scooter (yes, I'll admit it) with a swingarm for the front suspension, never took it apart to see all of the finer details of how it worked. But anytime you would grab some front brake, you would get massive amounts of brake jack that felt like you were braking into a curb. It was terrible, I would never want that on a bike. I like a little compression that moves the center of mass forward giving more traction on the front wheel. I think that's the only safe way to do it. Small amounts of brake dive are good, tons or none are bad.

 

[Bikael Molton]

The main selling point of the Telever designs was a reduction of braking induced fork dive, which they did pretty effectively.

Has that fork dive been mostly remedied through better dampers in the last few years, or are the forces involved so much higher on a race motorcycle than on a MTB that it's still a big issue?

But without brake dive of some sort, things feel sketchy. I've ridden a scooter (yes, I'll admit it) with a swingarm for the front suspension, never took it apart to see all of the finer details of how it worked. But anytime you would grab some front brake, you would get massive amounts of brake jack that felt like you were braking into a curb. It was terrible, I would never want that on a bike. I like a little compression that moves the center of mass forward giving more traction on the front wheel. I think that's the only safe way to do it. Small amounts of brake dive are good, tons or none are bad.

Yea, a little decreased fork height while braking helps me corner better on pavement, but I'm no racer. I'm saying "decreased fork height" rather than "dive" since my motorcycles dive nowhere near like my '02 Super T.

 

[slimshady]

Has that fork dive been mostly remedied through better dampers in the last few years, or are the forces involved so much higher on a race motorcycle than on a MTB that it's still a big issue?




Yea, a little decreased fork height while braking helps me corner better on pavement, but I'm no racer. I'm saying "decreased fork height" rather than "dive" since my motorcycles dive nowhere near like my '02 Super T.

Brake induced dive isn't a bad thing when you talk about front suspension. When the suspensions dive a bit, the wheelbase decreases, the total sprung mass comes closer to the ground and the bike becomes more flickable. It really helps you to get a better line on flat turns.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Brake induced dive isn't a bad thing when you talk about front suspension. When the suspensions dive a bit, the wheelbase decreases, the total sprung mass comes closer to the ground and the bike becomes more flickable. It really helps you to get a better line on flat turns.

That's what I was trying to say. A little bit of front squat helps in flicking into a corner lean. Massive, sternum-to-stem 1970s dive is scary though.

 

[imp]

For my own edification, what are those designs hoping to achieve? Was it just about reducing flex?

The Britten moto is the only one of those I find interesting, though I have no clue how the "fork" performed.

The V1000 should be NZ's national animal. Tony Foale's designs are neat too, there are lots of potential benefits--

1. Change squat characteristics to anything
2. Wider choice of geometry without adverse mechanical effects (ex. steeper rake without juddering under braking)
3. Lighter, stiffer, or both
4. Cheaper damper (1/2 the parts)

Having said that, none of the designs ever "feel" as good as a comparable suspension fork, and not strictly because of the way they squat (some have normal brake dive). I think a design where some component transfers energy from an active part of the suspension into where the bars mount could work, but its hard to beat the clamp/tube interface with spring and oil moving normal to your palms.