[amydalayna]

so my boss, mistakenly, left the end of the quarter reports on my desk last week. it has everyone i work with's salaries.
Come to find out... I make less then most. Which is pretty annoying because I work harder than most.

Do I...

a. Suck it up. I still make more then most people in South Lake Tahoe.
b. Wait a little bit and then tell him I would like to discuss my salary. Indicate that I think I believe I am worth more than I'm being paid.

Oh I wish I never saw that printout.

 

[jimmydean]

B. For sure

When I was a team lead at a company (leading anti virus company) and had to do reviews, I found out I made the least on my team. I was given the promotion to Lead Engineer for my hard work, come to find out the laziest bastard on the team made the most.

It's all in the talk. I suck at talking salary, so I get screwed 9 out of 10 times.

 

[narlus]

probably the last one.

however, if you start mentioning money they can easily call yr bluff and tell you to pound sand. but, there are ways to skillfully engage this topic as well.

 

[schweino1]

maybe he left it there on purpose just to mess with you...

 

[bluebug32]

is your yearly review coming up?

 

[buildyourown]

Push the subject. I found myself in the same situation and it worked out well for me. I knew my boss was willing to pay more for the work I was doing. Very empowering.
With all negotiations, you need to be willing to walk away.

 

[amydalayna]

i am sooooo no happy right now.
i took a pay cut moving out here because i wanted to live here more then i wanted to live in connecticut.

i know i get pushed around salary-wise because i'm younger and a girl

 

[amydalayna]

maybe he left it there on purpose just to mess with you...

That's just sick and twisted. but he is a programmer. programmers are a bunch of freaks for sure.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

B.

Based on the other salary info, you can request and negotiate for something in a meaningful range where you know he can work.

J

 

[DH biker]

b.

Do a bit of negotiating; what's the worst that could happen???

 

[Heidi]

Hmm, I guess I'd go for b. Tough call though, because what if he just tells you to take a hike? Hell, go for it. No guts, no glory.

 

[SK6]

so my boss, mistakenly, left the end of the quarter reports on my desk last week. it has everyone i work with's salaries.
Come to find out... I make less then most. Which is pretty annoying because I work harder than most.

Do I...

a. Suck it up. I still make more then most people in South Lake Tahoe.
b. Wait a little bit and then tell him I would like to discuss my salary. Indicate that I think I believe I am worth more than I'm being paid.

Oh I wish I never saw that printout.

The issue is that the boss may not know how you feel or know what your goals are. If you see yourself as the hardest worker, and in fact are, the having a discussion with him/her that you fell that you give all for the company, and would like to continue to do so. You could tell them that you feel that you have really taken initiative in your position, and believe that an increase in salary is warranted.

They key is to NOT be confrontational. Currently the request for the raise is the content, the raise, and maintaining the discussion just on that content is key. Once the perception changes, the focus changes and ultimately shifts, and the increase in salary is no longer the focal point of the discussion.

Just a thought. And thank you BTW, because I have no the thesis from this weeks paper! Thanks!

Damn it! You deserve that raise!

 

[Changleen]

Wow, I think that might be the best SK6 post ever.

 

[blt2ride]

It's a tough call. If there is one thing bosses don't like, it's an employee saying they're not being compensated fairly. Companies are always looking for ways to save money, and sometimes the only way to do that is to cut salaries/raises.

You have to look at the big picture. Have the folks making more money been with the company longer? The only way I would be really mad, would be if we were all hired around the same time, or if they were hired after me. Otherwise, it's just business, and your salary will catch up to their salaries in no time...sometimes you have to pay your dues...

 

[douglas]

B.

if you work harder than most you will either get more cash now, or a "not now, you have to wait for reviews"

DO IT!

 

[I Are Baboon]

Make sure you don't mention that printout if you ask for a raise. That is confidential information and you should not have been looking at it regardless of how you came upon it. A couple other monkeys here recently had threads about this and the general consensus was to ask for a raise.

Having worked in payroll for the last 10 years, I have become numb to what everyone else makes. It's my job to know and to be honest, I really don't care about anyone's salary but my own.

 

[SK6]

Wow, I think that might be the best SK6 post ever.

:nuts:

 

[Changleen]

:nuts:

OK, OK don't get all big headed about it...

 

[Westy]

Like everyone else said try B. The most important thing is to be extremely proffessional about it.

 

[SK6]

OK, OK don't get all big headed about it...

I'm intelligent...But I choose not to...

 

[SK6]

If your honest with the boss about how you feel, it should go ok, but the advise of not disclosing the information you have is worth taking.

 

[DesuL]

B. But only after you have had atleast one job interview even if its a simple bridge building interview to get a grasp for whats out there. Then discuss that you may be looking for other options with more competitive compensation. Just my $.02

This reminds me of why I like the union

 

[OGRipper]

Amy, it sounds like this just confirms what you already knew or suspected, and this might give you the motivation and confidence to have a conversation you wanted to have earlier. Regardless of whether you had seen the printout, it's important to focus on how you are not getting what you are worth, not what others make. Since most employees have a hard time keeping secrets from each other, your boss would be stupid to lie about what others make. If he does, tell him you are surprised but you can accept that if he is willing to show you proof.

It's tough but nobody else will argue for you, and they will keep under-paying you until you speak up. Stay cool and be firm.

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

The company that i work for(11 years) changed our pay/commision plan in Jan.They assured us that our pay ,although structured different would not suffer.My pay was off alittle over 20% for the year yet my numbers were above lat years.After struggling with it I decided i had to do something.I invited the VP of sales out to lunch and calmly voiced my feelings.It ended up being a 3 hour lunch but the end result is they are making up the difference in quarterly installments.

 

[TreeSaw]

B.

Based on the other salary info, you can request and negotiate for something in a meaningful range where you know he can work.

J

Good luck!

 

[Echo]

Definitely a tough call. A few years ago I worked with this girl, and we got to be pretty good friends. Eventually we discussed how much we made. Turned out I made WAY more money than her and we did exactly the same job, and actually she had been with the company longer. She brought it up to the boss, who told her that she would give her an extra % raise when review time came. So she got 4.5% and I got 3.5%. Guess what? 3.5% of my salary was more than 4.5% of her salary, so the gap still got bigger

Some fights you just can't win - the best way to get a big raise is to get a job somewhere else.

 

[bmxr]

Waaa! You should ALL join a union!

If you really do work harder and better, then talking about a raise tactfully (indirectly even, at first) won't be a big deal and your boss will want to make you happy. The old adage about"finding good help" is as true today as ever, and you just don't let good people walk away that easily. If you aren't all you fancy yourself to be he/she won't mind calling your bluff. If that happens, it's OK because one of two things just happened:
1) You got a reality check you needed, or;
2) Your boss shot himself in the foot and put himself at a competitive disadvantage by losing you. Go make more with the competition and use that for motivation to do even better for the next company. Drive your old boss out of business and prove that free markets work!

Seriously, I have had a couple of bosses let me walk away before and I never made a step backward in my career. Don't let this fester inside you. Just be cool, think about your approach, and have the conversation.

 

[pterodactyl]

You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. You absolutely must be prepared to leave your job. You need to know where you stand with your employer.
In Jan I got an offer for 25K more than I made then. I sent them my letter of resignation. My reasoning behind quitting was that I it was an opportunity to learn more, do more, and I have a kid on the way and need to make sure my wife can stay home. I didn;t really want to leave.
At that point they could have said good bye or worked with me. If they wanted to let me go that meant that I was not doing a good enough job anyway and was victim of a bad perception. If they wanted to work with me, that would mean that I was valuable and could expect a developing career.
The instant I answered the phone call from the president of the company, I knew where I stood and immediately had leverage. Leverage is the key. I got the money, interviews inside the company for higher paying jobs, more stock options and respect.
You need to disguise your negotiation for money as a need around developing your career and other issues. Find out where you stand and if you have any leverage to negotiate.
This is harder than it seems...this is what I do in my job all day, so it was natural for me.

 

[SK6]

You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. You absolutely must be prepared to leave your job. You need to know where you stand with your employer.
In Jan I got an offer for 25K more than I made then. I sent them my letter of resignation. My reasoning behind quitting was that I it was an opportunity to learn more, do more, and I have a kid on the way and need to make sure my wife can stay home. I didn;t really want to leave.
At that point they could have said good bye or worked with me. If they wanted to let me go that meant that I was not doing a good enough job anyway and was victim of a bad perception. If they wanted to work with me, that would mean that I was valuable and could expect a developing career.
The instant I answered the phone call from the president of the company, I knew where I stood and immediately had leverage. Leverage is the key. I got the money, interviews inside the company for higher paying jobs, more stock options and respect.
You need to disguise your negotiation for money as a need around developing your career and other issues. Find out where you stand and if you have any leverage to negotiate.
This is harder than it seems...this is what I do in my job all day, so it was natural for me.

Disguise = lie...leverage = power struggle....all the top components of conflict resolution... Integrity is a really neat thing…

Mutuality of power and being compensated for your hard work and efforts is your goal, and to come to a mutual agreement that encompasses the satisfactory end result for both parties.

And in case this is misconstrued as personal opinion, reference:

Wilmot & Hocker (2001). Interpersonal conflict. 6th ed. : McGraw Hill

 

[JRB]

They hired a part time guy to help in IT when I worked with them. They paid him more than me. They also tested on the production box during production hours and drove me nuts. I left that department to run customer service. They now pay him $9000 more than me, but I can get a 20% bonus, if we bonus out, so I will make nearly as much as him, and my boss is not a prick. His kind of is. Besides, he is a total f'n nerd, so I am cool being below him.

Ask for the raise, but don't be surprised if it doesn't go your way.

 

[shootr]

Thank you SK6....
For so eloquently voicing my opinion.

People have to stop looking at their employer as the enemy.

 

[-dustin]

i remember back in the day at the golf course, this girl, Lacy, started out making $1.20 more than i did. at the time, i had already being there 3yrs. man that pissed me off at first. one day, i told him there was no way he would get into her pants. he laughed, i laughed, we lit up the Macanudos.

 

[amydalayna]

Amy, it sounds like this just confirms what you already knew or suspected, and this might give you the motivation and confidence to have a conversation you wanted to have earlier. Regardless of whether you had seen the printout, it's important to focus on how you are not getting what you are worth, not what others make. Since most employees have a hard time keeping secrets from each other, your boss would be stupid to lie about what others make. If he does, tell him you are surprised but you can accept that if he is willing to show you proof.

It's tough but nobody else will argue for you, and they will keep under-paying you until you speak up. Stay cool and be firm.

i guess that's what is firing up the most. that i THOUGHT i was underpaid and now i KNOW i'm underpaid.
the other part to this equation that is hard is that my company isn't bringing in alot of money. The other developer here's salary is way more than he's worth and he's never here. The always out sick type.

i'm not happy with my job, but not sure what i can do. there are very few programming jobs here.

 

[Tenchiro]

This problem, much like any other can easily be solved by fire. :evil:

 

[Ridemonkey]

I haven't read all the posts so far, so someone may have said this already, but don't say you're worth more, SHOW you're worth more. Outline a case for yourself. "Sir, I've done this, this and this in the past x months, which have helped to do this, this and this. I've added value to this by doing this, etc."

Once he sees how hard you've been working, and that you do have a positive affect on things he'll be amenable to discussing an increase in pay.

 

[golgiaparatus]

so my boss, mistakenly, left the end of the quarter reports on my desk last week. it has everyone i work with's salaries.
Come to find out... I make less then most. Which is pretty annoying because I work harder than most.

Do I...

a. Suck it up. I still make more then most people in South Lake Tahoe.
b. Wait a little bit and then tell him I would like to discuss my salary. Indicate that I think I believe I am worth more than I'm being paid.

Oh I wish I never saw that printout.

A lot of variables there... how long have you been there vs the others that have the same position as you yet still make more, how valuable and/or replaceable are you?

 

[Snacks]

Having worked in payroll for the last 10 years, I have become numb to what everyone else makes. It's my job to know and to be honest, I really don't care about anyone's salary but my own.

Me too. I honestly don't really care what others in the company make. It's a family run business so the 'family ' always make way more than they should....but what am I going to do about it....sleep with one of the owners sonsneaky:

 

[amydalayna]

A lot of variables there... how long have you been there vs the others that have the same position as you yet still make more, how valuable and/or replaceable are you?

i have been w/ this company a year and a half. the other programmer has been here a year longer, but makes 30k more.
we do very similar work, but he works more on web applications and i work on desktop applications.

i'm kind of quiet at work and don't tend to stand up for myself. hate confrontation.
when i got a crummy raise a couple of months ago i said i wasn't happy, but just let it go. which i guess i shouldn't have.

i'm a GIS developer. Typically, a pretty high paid position.... just not here. There's no way i could be replaced with someone who would do what i do for what i make.

 

[N8 v2.0]

i have been w/ this company a year and a half. the other programmer has been here a year longer, but makes 30k more.
we do very similar work, but he works more on web applications and i work on desktop applications.

i'm kind of quiet at work and don't tend to stand up for myself. hate confrontation.
when i got a crummy raise a couple of months ago i said i wasn't happy, but just let it go. which i guess i shouldn't have.

i'm a GIS developer. Typically, a pretty high paid position.... just not here. There's no way i could be replaced with someone who would do what i do for what i make.

Oh man... that sucks!

A $30k difference is a lot. Is the other programmer a guy by chance?

 

[SK6]

i have been w/ this company a year and a half. the other programmer has been here a year longer, but makes 30k more.
we do very similar work, but he works more on web applications and i work on desktop applications.

i'm kind of quiet at work and don't tend to stand up for myself. hate confrontation.
when i got a crummy raise a couple of months ago i said i wasn't happy, but just let it go. which i guess i shouldn't have.

i'm a GIS developer. Typically, a pretty high paid position.... just not here. There's no way i could be replaced with someone who would do what i do for what i make.

Well then, you just answered your own question. You got mad skills, it's ok to get paid for that.