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Fox and SRAM have agreed to be nice to each other

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daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,689
178
New York City
Funny I always think of SRAM and Shimano being rivals but it seem Fox is SRAM's main rival in OEM the business side of things.

Fox and SRAM end 6-year legal battle over chainring and axle patents
Published January 3, 2022
DENVER (BRAIN) — Maybe 2022 will begin an era of peace, love and understanding in the bike industry, as Fox Factory and SRAM are starting the new year with a clean slate after agreeing to settle legal disputes dating to 2015.

Both sides filed documents with courts in Colorado and Illinois last Thursday saying they were dismissing claims and counterclaims, with each side to bear their own costs and attorneys fees.
According to a Fox filing with the SEC, Fox and SRAM agreed to dismiss their claims with no admission of liability by either. SRAM is granting Fox a non-exclusive license to make and sell products using SRAM's chainring-related patents in exchange for royalty rates. Fox is granting SRAM a non-exclusive royalty-free license to make and use products and services covered by Fox's axle patents.
In late 2015 SRAM sued RaceFace (which Fox had acquired in 2014) for infringing on two of its chainring patents. Several other brands offering similar chainrings had agreed to license the X-Sync technology from SRAM, but RaceFace took it to court and eventually challenged the patents' validity. In March 2021, a U.S. Patent and Trademark Office board sided with Fox on the chainring patent challenge, which may have encouraged settlement talks.
Separately, in 2016 Fox filed suit in California against SRAM, which owns RockShox, for infringing on several Fox-owned suspension and axle-related patents. That case was later moved to Colorado.
The litigation has cost both companies millions in legal fees. In 2020, Fox spent $1.96 million in patent-related litigation, down from $4.4 million in 2019 and $2.1 million in 2018.
In the first nine months of Fox's 2021 fiscal year, the company spent $900,000 on litigation, according to its third quarter report released in November.
Fox and SRAM are rivals for OE business on several fronts: most notably in suspension and dropper posts, where Fox and SRAM's RockShox are competitors, but also in road and mountain bike cockpit components and cranks (where Fox's Easton and RaceFace brands compete with SRAM's Zipp, Service Course, and Truvativ brands) and wheels (where Easton and Race Face compete with Zipp and SRAM).
Neither side had any comment on the settlement.
 

gonefirefightin

free wieners
merger? definitely not. neither company has enough money to buy out the other. plus, sram is cycling only. fox factory is also involved in motorsports.
Possibly, but think about for a sec....Merger, not buy out....

Fox buys Raceface, Easton, for 30 mil, then Marzocchi and continues to grow by acquisition. Sram buys Avid has always been touted as growing by acquisitions from the start. Both players just settle as per the SEC, so you know they had to have a sit down over each others patents and components. I think the writing is on the wall for things to come since they literally make parts that marry each other and the industry via covid is changing to a manufacturing/sourcing dilemma.

its just a matter of time if you ask me.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,815
27,030
media blackout
Possibly, but think about for a sec....Merger, not buy out....

Fox buys Raceface, Easton, for 30 mil, then Marzocchi and continues to grow by acquisition. Sram buys Avid has always been touted as growing by acquisitions from the start. Both players just settle as per the SEC, so you know they had to have a sit down over each others patents and components. I think the writing is on the wall for things to come since they literally make parts that marry each other and the industry via covid is changing to a manufacturing/sourcing dilemma.

its just a matter of time if you ask me.
not gonna happen. fox and sram are the two largest suspension makers in MTB (at least on the high end). would never get approved.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,753
7,097
Which one will patent a creak free CSU first?

EDIT- Actually, probably X-Fusion with the Unicrown.
 

sunringlerider

Wood fluffer
Oct 30, 2006
4,303
7,917
Corn Fields of Indiana
I would imagine a merger of the two is highly unlikely. Both have had pretty banger years and at this point I am not sure either company has the coin to buy a competing billion+ company.
But nice to see they kissed and made up. It’s not you it’s me, or something like that.
 

gonefirefightin

free wieners
I would imagine a merger of the two is highly unlikely. Both have had pretty banger years and at this point I am not sure either company has the coin to buy a competing billion+ company.
But nice to see they kissed and made up. It’s not you it’s me, or something like that.

Actually fox is worth about 5x what sram is worth. I think sram was close to 1 billion at the end of last yr and fox was around 5-6 billion.
 

sunringlerider

Wood fluffer
Oct 30, 2006
4,303
7,917
Corn Fields of Indiana
Actually fox is worth about 5x what sram is worth. I think sram was close to 1 billion at the end of last yr and fox was around 5-6 billion.
Sram is over a billion for the 2021 fiscal year, not sure the exact number, but I know they had a rockstar year. Still is small looking a giant such a sheemanna. Fox does already own some components companies but I don’t think the merger would make a lot of sense to them. But then again mergers don’t always make sense.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,815
27,030
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Actually fox is worth about 5x what sram is worth. I think sram was close to 1 billion at the end of last yr and fox was around 5-6 billion.
source?

from what i found on wikipedia (and i checked from their sources), srams 2020 revenue was $100m higher than that of fox factory. however fox's came from their SEC filing and SRAM's came from Moody's, because SRAM is a private company.

edit: yes, i understand that annual revenue is different than total company value.
 

gonefirefightin

free wieners
source?

from what i found on wikipedia (and i checked from their sources), srams 2020 revenue was $100m higher than that of fox factory. however fox's came from their SEC filing and SRAM's came from Moody's, because SRAM is a private company.

edit: yes, i understand that annual revenue is different than total company value.
You gotta keep in mind, Fox is in the auto/racing industry in almost every major brand, as well as the UTV/quad industry in every major brand, and the moto industry. Bikes are probably their smallest sector. for them to buy SRAM would be a drop in the bucket.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,153
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You gotta keep in mind, Fox is in the auto/racing industry in almost every major brand, as well as the UTV/quad industry in every major brand, and the moto industry. Bikes are probably their smallest sector.
And that’s why they come with whacked out tunes and bizarre English sized parts.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,703
3,168

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,153
10,705
AK
Yeah, Glad rockshox has never had bizarre parts or lame suspension tunes, lol
At least RS isn’t making shocks today with fucking bizarre English sized fittings like 43/84ths and imperial sizes shims and shit. No excuse for that IMO. And RS at least attempts to make their stuff serviceable at home without vacuum bleeders and. Having worked on both, no comparison. Old RS stuff was way shittier, yes, but we aren’t there anymore and why the F is Fox still making imperial sized stuff and such a pain in the ass to work on.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,815
27,030
media blackout
You gotta keep in mind, Fox is in the auto/racing industry in almost every major brand, as well as the UTV/quad industry in every major brand, and the moto industry. Bikes are probably their smallest sector. for them to buy SRAM would be a drop in the bucket.
i'm with ya. company valuation was what i was actually looking for yesterday, all i could come up with was annual revenue.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,730
2,712
Pōneke
At least RS isn’t making shocks today with fucking bizarre English sized fittings like 43/84ths and imperial sizes shims and shit. No excuse for that IMO. And RS at least attempts to make their stuff serviceable at home without vacuum bleeders and. Having worked on both, no comparison. Old RS stuff was way shittier, yes, but we aren’t there anymore and why the F is Fox still making imperial sized stuff and such a pain in the ass to work on.
This is super ironic coming from an American, literally the last imperial holdouts. :D
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,153
10,705
AK
This is super ironic coming from an American, literally the last imperial holdouts. :D
So all of the Americas (N, S, middle) should use imperial that even the UK doesn’t use? Your post confuses.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,730
2,712
Pōneke
So all of the Americas (N, S, middle) should use imperial that even the UK doesn’t use? Your post confuses.
I’m sorry, I will work harder on my passive aggressive phrasing. :D I meant the demand for most of this is basically coming from a couple of places now:

47685973-33D7-4646-B5C6-5330146C3863.jpeg
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,153
10,705
AK
I’m sorry, I will work harder on my passive aggressive phrasing. :D I meant the demand for most of this is basically coming from a couple of places now:

View attachment 170160
A good number of US companies...if not most, make their stuff to metric standards. For some reason the housing industry is totally exempt to this, but almost everything else, cars, tech, mechanical shit, is. What's the angle though, are you saying they should be using imperial instead?
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,153
10,705
AK
The reason I take exception is that we really HAVE made a lot of progress in getting companies to make shit according to metric standards. We obviously have a long ways to go as far as teaching and living with it every day...but this is why Fox should be called out here, its not like there's a lot of bike companies putting out parts with wacky imperial fittings.