jumping in here from the sale thread..... jenson has the MY22 38 factory 27.5 with the grip 2 vcc damper on sale for $300. can that be reshimmed to address the damping? or is the "proper" fix just upgrading the whole damper to the gripx2?
Fox Fork Dampers in Hindsight
- Thread starter Lelandjt
- Start date
No, the VV2 does not have the easily reshim-able stack and even slight changes like .2mm have crazy varrying effects cuz the tolerances are different w/each fork, it makes it very difficult to tune. There ARE some tuners that would do it, but better options are junking that damper and putting in MRP OR just get a Mezzer on sale, likely still cheaper than either (tuned fox or mrp in it).
I have that fork, well the Performance Elite version, but same damper. It's on a bike I don't ride too much, maybe 8 times so far this year, but I've struggled to get it to feel anywhere close to good. I'm debating if I should send it in for service, or just replace the damper.
Good info, thanks. I like the MRP solution but $400 seems like a lot, although now that I look around, the Grip X2 upgrade is the same.
responding here not to get off topic in the sale thread.
yea, installing fork dampers is generally pretty straightforward. i've done enough work on forks & shocks i wouldn't be intimidated by reshimming the fork. but to @Jm_ 's point, it's entirely possible there are other issues that reshimming wouldn't resolve.
The VVC isnt a traditional shim stack that can be easily modified. This is the shit damper that fox made with virtually no HSC, and due to the construction, its not practical to tune. Supposedly the new x2 ones solve all these issues, but this is why all the grip2 stuff has been blowing out at dirt cheap prices. But when u can geta new 27.5 Mezzer Pro from Manitou for $440 with a not-shit damper, theres no point in getting a dirt cheap fox just to change the damper IMO.
I modified/reshimmed my grip1 in my 40 a few times and got it to the point im not after an X2 anymore.
Get a Grip1 damper for postage costs and work from there.
Get a Grip1 damper for postage costs and work from there.
I couldn't get it to make enough damping...
Don't worry about it making too much or variability... well on the rebound yes. But base valve no.
I tried many extra shims
Extra leaves, preloaded leaves, shims on top of leaves.
No luck.
Wanted to cut a 0.002" dish in the piston but never bothered.
So actually, I got this backwards, it's the non-VVC Grip 2 (the very early production stuff where they basically "borrowed" Marzocchi's last actual own-system) where the piston is so sensitive to preload and the tolerances so screwed up that something like .02mm added preload can give you like 2x the damping on the piston, making it basically impossible to design any kit for, each fork has to be run through the dyno again and again and there's just no way to accurately tune it, even for tuners that do that stuff for a living, except by trial and error, due to the varying tolerances.
The VV2 is the one with the shit HSC though, where there's virtually none. There are some companies that will mod it though...I just don't see it as cost effective, any tune service is still going to be pricy, the VV2 isn't a traditional shimmed setup because they attempted to allow you to adjust the HSC without simply preloading a valve like most do. Great in concept, but they totally fucked it up in execution, since the amount of HSC it produces is too low to be effective for...anything. As compared to the MRP damper. I think these are significantly overdamped...but they can be changed out pretty easy with their shim kits, you can order the lighter setup right off the bat anyway, and it's just a traditional recirculating damper that has no funny parts, simple. That's just a great retrofit IMO. There's also the new Fox Grip X2 that might be worth it as you say, prices are similar. I don't know how available their re-shimming kits are though, so that could be a difference. And of course the mezzer, on crazy sale prices right now, that's kind of the value leader IMO. I was thinking about doing just what you are considering, getting one of these dirt cheap Fox forks and putting an MRP in on my foes fatbike as 29er enduro in the summertime, but then I realized the cost with the MRP+Fox chassis is still going to be significantly more than another Mezzer...so I might as well just get the Mezzer. But I'll end with this, if you are thinking that there is any chance you ever want to put a coil spring in there, don't get the Mezzer. There's no kit for it, when there is one (Dougal is working on it) it won't be cheap and it'll need to be shipped across the ocean. I'd vote for the cheap fox chassis here and put a Smashpot or just Z1 Coil in it.
Cool...Dougal was working on it, advertised it, but had to pull it back when he couldn't get some of the parts manufacturing lined up. I "sprung for it", but I was kinda "meh" at that point, I wasn't that dedicated to the idea. He refunded everyone and supposedly it was still going to come, but costs were going up and it didn't seem as likely in the end. I'd probably go for that V2 Mezzer kit though. It shouldn't need HBO, because the Mezzer already has that. Moving away from the wacky Manitou air spring setup would be great. It's a "theoretically this is great" but in practice I just find it to be a PITA. Stock 2.8 mill seal doesn't work well, eventually fails and fork sucks down, have to upgrade to Dougal's 3mm for proper function, but can't overfill the fork like a normal fork and "bleed" pressure on the trail to get to the right setup, since you gotta attach a pump to the bottom so the pos and neg will equalize as you bleed, way more involved, etc. I just fine it way too much for the supposed performance advantage...and at least something like a Runt locates both valves on top and the forks that use it have normal neg spring equalization ports. So yeah, that's great news.
Now if they'd do one for the Mastodon...I asked em and they said it was depending on how many asked for it...but there just aren't a lot of people on long-travel snow rigs...yet. I checked my spring again and damn, the springs still don't really fit in my new V3 Mastodon set at 160mm travel.
So I'm still not super happy with my fox38VVC, even though the chassis seems to be okay, and I do like the linear airspring.
What bums me out about all of fox's dampers, is that they keep sticking to those stupid imperial shims. I would like to just change a stack by grabbing in my current collection of 6, 8 and 9mm shims, but ohhh no, they just have to use 6,4 or 4mm or some other size shims that no-one has in stock. It just pisses me off, and really prevents me from actually considering the GripX2 damper as an upgrade.
Maybe I can find a machinist willing to make some adapters, so I can put a dead-simple RS Charger 2.1 RC2 damper from a Zeb in there.
Well they actually thing to do for a 38 is find someone's 36 or 40 non vvc basevalve and move the parts to your 38 cap. Can make enough damping that way.
Re the shims... for like 20 bucks you can buy the entire shim stack it comes with the vvc plate as well.
The new 25 vvc getup comes with a bunch of the face shims but I doubt using all them with your current stack will get you anywhere.
If you do try just chuck the 3 or 4 extra face shims in, and the extra leaf for 3 leaves if there's room and set the leaf preload to a moderate amount... maybe you can make some half reasonable amount of damping.
thanks for the info. i entertained the idea of getting the 38 to build my OG megatrail for the jump lines at my local bike park. not to replace my dh bike or anything, and there's really no trail networks in my region where I need a full on enduro bike.
did a little googling..... came across fox part 803-01-966, 2024 Grip 2 Compression Tune Update Kit. appears to be this guy (pic below).... looks similar to 820-03-716 that was posted previously
sounds like the '24 G2 was an improvement over the prior version, but still not as good as GX2?
'24 G2 is an improvement. It's hard for me to make a call on GX2 as I suspect mine is out of spec; it definitely has a shitload more support than any of the G2 VVC dampers.
did you mess around with oil weight at all? a slightly heavier weight might help, no?
@two-one
S-tech in Germany has 6.4mm ID shims
s-tech-racing.de
S-tech in Germany has 6.4mm ID shims
SHIMS FÜR MTB/FOX (ZOLL), 10 Stck, 1,20 €
SHIMS FÜR MTB/FOX (ZOLL), 1 Satz (10 Stck)
Didn't feel particularly stiction-y. It's off to the tuner.
Could it be the airspring causing breakaway stiction.
saw this posted over on vital. anyone else ever hear of it? or try it?
wps-mtb.com
Podium Piston Kit - Fox Grip2 VVC
Podium Piston Kits - better flow, better performance! High flow piston and shim tuning kit to give you more grip, more control and ultimately, faster segments! CNC machined aerospace-grade aluminium and hard anodised piston, along with high-grade valving shims, uprated IFP spring* and guide*...
wps-mtb.com
I tried to convince them to send me a kit, but they only sell through reputable suspension service companies... not to unreliable wrenchmonkeys like me.saw this posted over on vital. anyone else ever hear of it? or try it?
Podium Piston Kit - Fox Grip2 VVC
Podium Piston Kits - better flow, better performance! High flow piston and shim tuning kit to give you more grip, more control and ultimately, faster segments! CNC machined aerospace-grade aluminium and hard anodised piston, along with high-grade valving shims, uprated IFP spring* and guide*...
i assumed that was the case. There's 6 authorized resellers / service centers in the US. i might try reaching out to them to see if they would just sell me the kit itself.
That it does. But it's just shims and the preload spring, the WPS includes a different piston/valve head.
mtbcalssicparts.com has tons of shimz and other parts for le Fox and Marzocchi:
https://mtbclassicparts.com/search?type=product,&options[prefix]=last&q=shims
Hope this helps.
Btw.: They are doing a pretty insane black Friday sale on complete forks and shocks at the moment.
https://mtbclassicparts.com/search?type=product,&options[prefix]=last&q=shims
Hope this helps.
Btw.: They are doing a pretty insane black Friday sale on complete forks and shocks at the moment.
Found this post at empybeer that seems like an interesting, simple and cheap tweak for the grip2vvc damper. Removes preload and adds stiffness to the HSC adjuster/spring. Will probably give this a go when I have the fork apart.
Basically the guy removes 2 spacer shims from above the VVC leafsprings, and replaces them with a little tapered shimstack with 6mm ID to support those leafsprings.
Basically the guy removes 2 spacer shims from above the VVC leafsprings, and replaces them with a little tapered shimstack with 6mm ID to support those leafsprings.
Already did similar.
Try it but when you stroke it in your hand...
Close the lsc adjuster.
Your still gonna have no damping.
So I did send this fork in to Fox for warranty service since it was about to hit the one year mark. They said that there is nothing wrong with the damper, and that replacing it with the new 2025 one would cost $380 (retail price). They also said "it must have more use on it than I said it does" because the stanchions and bushings were showing "level 2 (out of 3) amounts of wear". I reiterated how little I've ridden it and that if that is the case, it must be from something else. They did say that there was excess grease in the air chamber which could cause problems with the negative spring.
Ultimately the choice was either a free warranty service which included the usual replace oil/seals and also new lower leg bushings, or to also replace the whole CSU (due to the "wear") and pay for the service to get 6 months of warranty added, at a cost of nearly $500. That was an easy choice. I can't imagine anyone choosing the expensive option, especially since right now I could just buy a second backup fork for sub $300 if I wanted to.
on the topic of fox shocks having issues... which years of the float x2 were the ones with issues?
All of em
2016-2020 original type they go a while maybe more than a good season but eventually suffer air migration.
2021-2023 new type saw many that immediately failed
0.050" shallower ifp depth and +25psi ifp pressure help in both cases
As well as changing the sealheads orings from poly 90 to buna 80 help both (buns 70 is commonly available but I searched high and low for buna 80 and 90.)
Poly is plastic and permanently deforms and doesnt rebound aka suffers compression set.
I like to change the poly oring on the od of the sealhead as well from poly to buna, gotta protect it when installing the ring those fine threads are razor sharp, wrap with one wrap of electrical tape before sliding the oring on.
The 24 has the appropriate fix of dual shaft seals..... that are buna.
2016-2020 original type they go a while maybe more than a good season but eventually suffer air migration.
2021-2023 new type saw many that immediately failed
0.050" shallower ifp depth and +25psi ifp pressure help in both cases
As well as changing the sealheads orings from poly 90 to buna 80 help both (buns 70 is commonly available but I searched high and low for buna 80 and 90.)
Poly is plastic and permanently deforms and doesnt rebound aka suffers compression set.
I like to change the poly oring on the od of the sealhead as well from poly to buna, gotta protect it when installing the ring those fine threads are razor sharp, wrap with one wrap of electrical tape before sliding the oring on.
The 24 has the appropriate fix of dual shaft seals..... that are buna.
Probably less slip stick than poly as well.
