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Fox Grip 2

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,241
509
Styria
https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Forks,33/FOX/36-FLOAT-GRIP2-Factory-2019,22595#product-reviews/3156
Fox drops the friction less bladder and adds a friction involving spring loaded IFP with improved seal to reduce friction. :bonk:

Only reasons I can see in doing so are either manufacturing/assembly benefits or too many problems with torn bladders.



How could the HSR valve stiffening mechanism possibly work? Do we need such a device?
Has the HSC/LSC FIT cart really been lacking in any part these "improvements" are a cure for?


I call big phat marketing BS! All I really want to see is a coil 36. Damn you Fox. And don't get me started with the 400€ coil conversion kit.

Thoughts?
 

PJivan

Monkey
Aug 27, 2006
157
18
Dublin, Ireland
They probably streamline the production since low level damper and marzocchi will use a simplified version of GRIP, and therefore many common parts and higher margin.

There is no point in speculate about friction, you either have the data or you don't, maybe this system have lower tollerance, maybe it's BS but one possible real benefit since it can bleed out oil and air could be improved reliability and more consistent performance between maintenance intervals.

I wonder how it compare with my 40 fit4 LSC damper and how much is the cost for the damper alone.
 
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ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,033
61
Vancouver
I call big phat marketing BS! All I really want to see is a coil 36. Damn you Fox. And don't get me started with the 400€ coil conversion kit.
They will eventually and everyone will flock to them. While I get the argument for air suspension for rentals and people that just plain like air suspension, I don't see Fox working on their shitty air spring issue. I hope CC, MRP and DVO gain some ground with their coil offerings.
 

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,219
1,152
Italy/south Tyrol
They will eventually and everyone will flock to them. While I get the argument for air suspension for rentals and people that just plain like air suspension, I don't see Fox working on their shitty air spring issue. I hope CC, MRP and DVO gain some ground with their coil offerings.
DVO has coil options now?
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Only reasons I can see in doing so are either manufacturing/assembly benefits or too many problems with torn bladders.
They actually grabbed Marzocchi's semi-closed damper and put it into their own forks. The GRIP2 cartridge has bleeding holes above the IFP and is able to suck oil in via the rebound shaft seal. So you won't have to bleed the cart, but you'll end up shortening service intervals if you ride in muddy/dusty conditions, since lube and damping fluids are the same now. Fox claims their new stanchion seals can keep the gunk out, but I'm skeptical about it.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
10,303
6,364
Canaderp
Shameless promotion; if anyone needs Grip damper oil, I've got a bottle for ya. I somehow walked out of a bike shop with it last year, not realizing that it was Grip fluid and not Float fluid. Major derp.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,777
929
I've been using the same FIT RC2 dampers for years now and zero bladder problems.
I've never personally seen one rupture on a 40 or 36 and while I'm sure it's not impossible it's certainly not an issue. I have seen them blown in the 32 but that's because the small lower volume was forcing oil into the cart and overfilling them.

I think there may be other reasons for switching to this design such as cost.

I'm not a big fan of the recirculating oil between damper/bath for reasons already mentioned (and some others too), but doesn't sound like we have a choice, just hope they didn't mess up what is currently the best available fork damper (RC2) like they already did with the RC4. Initial impressions I've heard so far are "good" from punters and "not that impressive" from fast people. Wait and see I guess.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,536
2,214
In my pants
Bladders must be currently a PITA, I had one rupture in my MRP Stage and they replaced it with an IFP. All MRPs new forks switched back to IFP.
I don't think I've seen a fox bladder fail in like 10 years. Basically since the first or second gen 40s.


While I'm not a fan of the circular flow dampers in rear shocks (at least on some bikes), the reasons I don't like them may actually be a good feature on a fork. That said.....still going to hoard an RC2 cart
 
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FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
519
69
Squamish, BC
I can't imagine that torn bladders alone would justify the change, I'd say less than 1% of Fox forks out there actually tear/damage a bladder in their lifetime.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,979
613
Northern California
I've had one bladder tear in 11 years of running 36/40s. Speaking of which, if anyone needs a bladder kit for an ~09 era 40 I found one in my parts bin. I also found a blue 36 spring if anyone needs one of those.
 
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Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,777
929
To play devil's advocate, there is some potential benefit to a HSR adjuster on the fork - if you read between the lines on my ramblings about how that adjustment is detrimental on all current rear shocks (for pitching reasons on offroad vehicles), you can see how slight digression on fork rebound could have some benefit. However, any benefit depends heavily on the dial adjusting in a useful range (or actually even allowing that at all), wait and see.

My worry is moreso that this is an opportunity for them to ruin the awesome compression damper that is the RC2, great range out of the box for most people and a HS setup that allows good mid-speed support without needing excessive LS - thus in my experience a very comfortable damper even once set up for hitting stuff hard.

Personally I also really like/d being able to choose a lubrication and damper fluid separately since you can choose the right thing for each task, but I know that there are mixed views on this, particularly from service centers on smaller forks like 32/34 where the smaller volume could cause lube oil ingress.

Bad juju, seems like RC2s are missing from the 2019 catalog
Oh it's definitely replacing the RC2, no doubt about that.
I just hope they didn't make it worse than the RC2 like they did with the '15 RC4 > X2 changeover.

All I really want to see is a coil 36. Damn you Fox. And don't get me started with the 400€ coil conversion kit.
Agreed!
Coil 40 back too, please.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
1,600
376
Champery, Switzerland
I think the self bleeding cartridge design is more to address oil ingress rather than torn blabbers. Sometimes my
forks get very progressive and feel harsh and it's almost always from the cartridge sucking in the gold lubrication oil, at the seal head, into the damper. The self bleeding cartridge would theoretically solve this overfilled problem.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,241
509
Styria
Increasing the clamping area stiffens the stack. How do you make 8 clicks of that is another question...?
Very good idea. Maybe they use some expanding collar?

you can see how slight digression on fork rebound could have some benefit
To quicker get back some travel?


Regarding bladder failure, I had one. Original first gen 36 TALAS RC2, after a few months of usage. Never happend again.
 

Happymtb.fr

Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
888
262
SWE
The explanation in the catalog doesn't explain that much also...

If the leaf spring is the black tongue between the upper blue part and the purple one, it might get preloaded by turning it on the purple part since the helix ridge will get closer toward the centre of the leaf spring thus creating more dish. The purple part would then be a coupler that "distributes" the force created by the preloaded leaf spring to the shim stack below in dark blue... does it sound plausible? If it is so, it doesn't differ much from any other usual preloaded coil spring except that it might offer some advantage in term of bulk space.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,777
929
Yep. Rapid recovery™ is udi's favorite topic.
Maybe now there's a chance that you can get your marginal improvement in rebound damping without sacrificing an entire very-useful compression adjustment. :)
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,241
509
Styria
The purple part would then be a coupler that "distributes" the force created by the preloaded leaf spring to the shim stack below in dark blue... does it sound plausible? If it is so, it doesn't differ much from any other usual preloaded coil spring except that it might offer some advantage in term of bulk space.
Preload. Like a preloaded stack.

I guess we will have to wait until a curious and sharing mind disassembles one.

@Udi maybe. ;)
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,241
509
Styria
After looking at the rendering and reading about it in another forum, my guess would be that the leaf spring itself works as a shim and is rotated over different sized port holes.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,735
2,089
AK
It seems like it would be easier and cost less just to mass produce a fucking damper that works well and is tunable for the end-user.

 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,536
2,214
In my pants
Maybe now there's a chance that you can get your marginal improvement in rebound damping without sacrificing an entire very-useful compression adjustment. :)

That's what I'm hoping! :D

I mean it's not as useful as 5 grams off a stem but we take what we can get.


I mean you've seen the graphic right?





Incredible ain't it?
 
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William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,719
354
Well, to be fair I thought the RC2 in my 40 was leaps and bounds better than the Avy carted coil totem it replaced. I know its not apples to apples, but the damper performance felt pretty leaps and bounds ahead in the 40. And that was a 2014, which they continued to mass produce for a few years.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,553
328
SLO
It seems like it would be easier and cost less just to mass produce a fucking damper that works well and is tunable for the end-user.

Or totally cutomizableby swapping valaves in or out to allow decrease or increase of oil flow.