[Transcend]

So you know those mega shiny gold uppers that Fox offered it's top 5 or so pros last year? Well it has gone production! No word on what forks will have it yet, but it's guaranteed to not affect price.

Look for a full article explaining what it does and why it is so damn good sometime this morning here on RM.

UPDATE: Article is now live!

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228759

 

[numerik]

Kowa uses that stuff....

 

[al-irl]

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/fox-racing-shox-to-utilize-kashima-coat-25037/

 

[Transcend]

Kowa does use it, yep. Fox is the only company outside of Japan allowed to use it int he mtb industry. Just waiting on BV to post up the article. It isn't the press release. I went a bit deeper into Kashima and how it is better than the ti nitride that RS used etc.

 

[jonKranked]

It'll look great with the Shimano Buka... I mean Yumeya

 

[banrider]

I was told that this coating was only for a few Pro's as it wears quickly and stanchions need to be replaced very often, is that true??

 

[ianjenn]

Can I still rip through the tin can aluminum with a finger nail? How about the seals hopefully a full season. But the coating seems cool.

 

[Banshee Rider]

The coating looks nice.

I wonder how far behind SRAM will be if its just a matter of sourcing and is that beneficial without affecting price.

 

[FOXROX]

I was told that this coating was only for a few Pro's as it wears quickly and stanchions need to be replaced very often, is that true??

no. think motocross, they are running the same coating.

 

[IH8Rice]

I was told that this coating was only for a few Pro's as it wears quickly and stanchions need to be replaced very often, is that true??

i read the same thing too

 

[Transcend]

I was told that this coating was only for a few Pro's as it wears quickly and stanchions need to be replaced very often, is that true??

Not true. You are thinking of the ti nitride that rock shox used. Soon as the article goes up, all will be explained!

 

[Dox]

Not true. You are thinking of the ti nitride that rock shox used. Soon as the article goes up, all will be explained!

It's not the ti nitride coating that was wearing but the electrolysis nickel one that they were testing.

“Before we started using Kashima Coat, we’d been testing and racing on electrolysis nickel coated upper tubes during the past two seasons,” said Fox's mountain bike race manager, Mark Fitzsimmons. “Although the friction properties were decent, the nickel’s durability was not.

 

[Transcend]

It's not the ti nitride coating that was wearing but the electrolysis nickel one that they were testing.

“Before we started using Kashima Coat, we’d been testing and racing on electrolysis nickel coated upper tubes during the past two seasons,” said Fox's mountain bike race manager, Mark Fitzsimmons. “Although the friction properties were decent, the nickel’s durability was not.

I'm aware that the nickel wasn't wearing well. Most people are thinking of the gold ti nitride when they see the fox stuff however, which flaked off very quickly due to a soft substrate (Aluminium).

 

[w00dy]

I'm interested to hear what's so special about it. From the article you linked it's just described as hard ano impregnated with mds.

 

[Transcend]

I'm interested to hear what's so special about it. From the article you linked it's just described as hard ano impregnated with mds.

The full article has a bit more, and there is a great PDF with diagrams on the Kashima site.

In engrish no less!

http://www.kashima-coat.com/pdf/English_pamphlet.pdf

 

[cowman]

http://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/FOX-Racing-Shox-to-Utilize-a-Slick-Technology-in-its-2011-Mountain-Bike-Suspension-Fork-Product-Line-Kashima-Coat,89

 

[Transcend]

Article is live.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228759

 

[davep]

????
"The molybdenum disulfide fills all of the micro pores in the aluminum which greatly increases it’s friction coefficient..."


???
"Then Ti-Nitride on top of the chrome or en. Chroming or en-ing aluminum is prone to flaking. And since the chrome or en, and ultimately the ti-nitriding is so much stiffer than the aluminum base metal, it is even more prone to flaking/delamination in applications that see flex loads, like fork upper tubes."


a little editing is in order I think.

Nice info though

 

[Transcend]

????
"The molybdenum disulfide fills all of the micro pores in the aluminum which greatly increases it’s friction coefficient..."


???
"Then Ti-Nitride on top of the chrome or en. Chroming or en-ing aluminum is prone to flaking. And since the chrome or en, and ultimately the ti-nitriding is so much stiffer than the aluminum base metal, it is even more prone to flaking/delamination in applications that see flex loads, like fork upper tubes."


a little editing is in order I think.

Nice info though

I am just quoting an engineer. Not gonna argue with him.

 

[leprechaun]

Now i understansd why KTM had to "source upper tubes from japan" on the 2010 moto bikes.

In moto, the inside of the upper tubes are Kashima coated, and the lowers are chrome plated, most of the time anyway.

"The molybdenum disulfide fills all of the micro pores in the aluminum which greatly increases it’s friction coefficient and actually allows sliding parts to be run without oil."

Assuming this is correctly worded, there is a point where if a polish is too fine then squeling and seizing can occur. I recall from my brief stint working at Karpiel back in the day that the polished pivot axles that were then coated were really squeaky, and they needed a certain level of texture to work the best with the Igus bushings.

 

[IH8Rice]

is chrome plating a good option for the stanchions? i see most hydraulic pistons are chrome plated.

 

[davep]

Now i understansd why KTM had to "source upper tubes from japan" on the 2010 moto bikes.

In moto, the inside of the upper tubes are Kashima coated, and the lowers are chrome plated, most of the time anyway.

"The molybdenum disulfide fills all of the micro pores in the aluminum which greatly increases it’s friction coefficient and actually allows sliding parts to be run without oil."

Assuming this is correctly worded, there is a point where if a polish is too fine then squeling and seizing can occur. I recall from my brief stint working at Karpiel back in the day that the polished pivot axles that were then coated were really squeaky, and they needed a certain level of texture to work the best with the Igus bushings.

Micro texture like this is used to hold lube...allow very small spaces that the lube can exist in little pockets where a much more smooth surface would actually be wiped clean of lube, leaving a metal on metal situation. In this case, the moly is the lube. If forms a dry film that prevents metal to metal contact in place of a 'wet' lube. Either way, the goal is to decrease friction, not increase it....

 

[leprechaun]

is chrome plating a good option for the stanchions? i see most hydraulic pistons are chrome plated.

Only if the tube is made of steel.

 

[spocomptonrider]

I wonder if the stanchions will be available for after market purchase for those of us that just bought 40's and cant justify buying another fork?

 

[djjohnr]

I wonder if the stanchions will be available for after market purchase for those of us that just bought 40's and cant justify buying another fork?

I'm sure they will be. For the low low price of your first born child.

 

[spocomptonrider]

I'm sure they will be. For the low low price of your first born child.

 

[4xBoy]

Sure just as I am about to order my 831 they release the 2011 stuff without saying what is going to get coating for sure.

 

[Jm_]

"The molybdenum disulfide fills all of the micro pores in the aluminum which greatly increases it’s friction coefficient and actually allows sliding parts to be run without oil."

That's good for Fox forks.

 

[Biffff]

I wonder if the stanchions will be available for after market purchase for those of us that just bought 40's and cant justify buying another fork?

I'm in the same boat. Nice new 2010 40. I'd spend a little cash for the upgrade but not my 1st born child.

 

[4xBoy]

I'd spend a little cash for the upgrade but not my 1st born child.

Well then no new legs for you.

 

[w00dy]

MDS is a pretty standard lube, kind of like graphite. This sounds like a novel way of applying it to a standard hard anodized surface, but that's the only groundbreaking part of it. You might see similar benefits if you just apply the stuff to your stanchions. Does anyone have a ratty old fork they want to try this on in the name of science?

 

[kemosabe83]

My 2010' 40 is currently on its way back from Fox, because my fork has sticktion issues. Everyone who has ever felt the fork says its sticky, and other 40's i felt are plusher. So after 3 long phone calls with different techs, they said nothing was wrong with it. This is according to a "dyno machine" that determines wether the fork is within spec. Since it was up to the dyno spec they didn't bother rebuilding the fork or any maintance. Even when I mentioned during an oil change i felt the cartridge skipped a little and had lot of sticktion. Now after reading this article it pisses me off more they couldn't admit it has an issue.
So after reading this article it bothers me to see it needs improvement and they could admit to it on the phone or offer any help. Does anyone else own a 2010 and have this issue? I have the proper sag and spring rate... i got low compression all the way out and it feels ****ty for first few inches.

 

[jonKranked]

My 2010' 40 is currently on its way back from Fox, because my fork has sticktion issues. Everyone who has ever felt the fork says its sticky, and other 40's i felt are plusher. So after 3 long phone calls with different techs, they said nothing was wrong with it. This is according to a "dyno machine" that determines wether the fork is within spec. Since it was up to the dyno spec they didn't bother rebuilding the fork or any maintance. Even when I mentioned during an oil change i felt the cartridge skipped a little and had lot of sticktion. Now after reading this article it pisses me off more they couldn't admit it has an issue.
So after reading this article it bothers me to see it needs improvement and they could admit to it on the phone or offer any help. Does anyone else own a 2010 and have this issue? I have the proper sag and spring rate... i got low compression all the way out and it feels ****ty for first few inches.

It's not so much that they are moving to the Kashima coating to resolve an issue, but to offer an improvement on the existing component.

 

[djjohnr]

Even when I mentioned during an oil change i felt the cartridge skipped a little and had lot of sticktion. Now after reading this article it pisses me off more they couldn't admit it has an issue.
So after reading this article it bothers me to see it needs improvement and they could admit to it on the phone or offer any help.

Weird. What do you mean by the cartridge skipping? If you're feeling issues with the cartridge all the slippery **** in the world on your stanchions won't help.

 

[kemosabe83]

Weird. What do you mean by the cartridge skipping? If you're feeling issues with the cartridge all the slippery **** in the world on your stanchions won't help.

Exactly, thats why i was not pleased with their service. You would think they would look into it more than they did. What i mean is in bleeding the cartridge bladder, when pressing cartridge it seemed stiff than would jump from full extension in an inch. It also kinda sticks when it is compressed bout 3", after that it is smooth. This is from factory it felt that way, and after i rebled it.

All i know is sram has gone as far to just replace an entire totem coil fork for me because it had a wierd sound and i didn't trust it. They could have just givin me the top crown assembly, but they were glad too hook me up so i had confidence in their product. This leads me to sell my 40 which they say is fine, and get a boxxer wc.

 

[IH8Rice]

Weird. What do you mean by the cartridge skipping? If you're feeling issues with the cartridge all the slippery **** in the world on your stanchions won't help.

yup, the stanchions wont help his problem....which i told him before. his problem is the cartridge is fubar

 

[kemosabe83]

Yea and i told 3 seperate fox techs that was the case, but they say the fork is within spec. So they wouldn't even look into it, and any idiot can tell that fork is screwy.

 

[cowman]

Yea and i told 3 seperate fox techs that was the case, but they say the fork is within spec. So they wouldn't even look into it, and any idiot can tell that fork is screwy.

Just rebuild your damper and see if it helps

 

[kemosabe83]

I would if i had their clamp tools at our shop. Thats why i sent it back to them.
I guess no one else who has read this has experienced this problem?

 

[jonKranked]

I would if i had their clamp tools at our shop. Thats why i sent it back to them.
I guess no one else who has read this has experienced this problem?

order the clamp tools?

edit: you can also source shaft clamps of the proper size through a moto shop. I know east hanover powersports on rt 10 can order that kind of stuff.