[troy]

Hey guys! That new Fox Proframe helmet looks really nice! Awesome weight, price and they say that it is ATSM downhill certified.

I'm wondering tho, if any of You would buy it for a true dh riding, not this enderpo riding crap from their marketing spots? I mean isn't it something like giro switchblade that will disintegrate during some hard frontal impact? Anyone knows what does this ATSM test cover? Do they test the chin part as well?

 

[Jm_]

Anyone knows what does this ATSM test cover?

Probably makes sure it comes in approved dental colors.

 

[4130biker]

I've got one on the way. I'm hoping it works for me for more aggressive trail riding with a little more protection where I'd normally just go open face.. Just got a bunch of dental work completed from my bmx days, so I'd like to keep it in good shape.

I think I'd use a better DH lid for shuttle laps or bike park though. I'm guessing this "meets" the requirements, where something like a D3 that werighs twice as much exceeds them.

 

[StiHacka]

Hey guys! That new Fox Proframe helmet looks really nice! Awesome weight, price and they say that it is ATSM downhill certified.

I'm wondering tho, if any of You would buy it for a true dh riding, not this enderpo riding crap from their marketing spots? I mean isn't it something like giro switchblade that will disintegrate during some hard frontal impact? Anyone knows what does this ATSM test cover? Do they test the chin part as well?

They test the chin bar but to learn how, you have to buy the test specification PDF for $40. Since the Giro Switchblade also has the ASTM F1952 I would not be too confident about this for true DH duties.,

 

[Nick]

No.

 

[jonKranked]

I think I'd use a better DH lid for shuttle laps or bike park though. I'm guessing this "meets" the requirements, where something like a D3 that werighs twice as much exceeds them.

this. "meets" vs "exceeds". unfortunately the test data is not published so we won't be able to e-analyze.

 

[jonKranked]

re ASTM F 1952, the abstract from the standard:

"Abstract

This specification covers performance requirements for helmets used by downhill mountain bicycle riders. Studies have shown higher risk to the head and face for this sport as compared to recreational street riding; hence, this specification requires greater impact protection and provides performance criteria for chin bars on full-face helmets, but does not require full-face helmets. Retention system tests shall be performed before impact testing. The helmet can be impacted anywhere on or above the test line with the curbstone anvil in any horizontal orientation. The ambient test helmet shall be subjected to the chin bar impact test."

 

[jonKranked]

re ASTM F 1952, the abstract from the standard:

"Abstract

This specification covers performance requirements for helmets used by downhill mountain bicycle riders. Studies have shown higher risk to the head and face for this sport as compared to recreational street riding; hence, this specification requires greater impact protection and provides performance criteria for chin bars on full-face helmets, but does not require full-face helmets. Retention system tests shall be performed before impact testing. The helmet can be impacted anywhere on or above the test line with the curbstone anvil in any horizontal orientation. The ambient test helmet shall be subjected to the chin bar impact test."

tl;dr - a non full face helmet can be certified to ASTM F 1952

 

[jonKranked]

that being said, i doubt Fox would have added the chin bar without taking the chin bar performance criteria from the standard into consideration.

 

[ianjenn]

No cause I can buy a D3 for almost the same $$$$

 

[StiHacka]

tl;dr - a non full face helmet can be certified to ASTM F 1952

Yes, but if with a chin bar, the chin bar must be part of the certification tests to obtain compliance.

 

[jonKranked]

Yes, but if with a chin bar, the chin bar must be part of the certification tests to obtain compliance.

do you have the full text of the current standard so we can verify? the last version i read was the 2009.

edit: i just pulled up my copy of the '09 standard, and it seems you are correct, based on the verbiage.

 

[jonKranked]

its def a cool helmet for its intended purpose, but i probably wouldn't use it in a bike park unless i was gonna cruise green circle flow trails all day.

 

[4130biker]

its def a cool helmet for its intended purpose, but i probably wouldn't use it in a bike park unless i was gonna cruise green circle flow trails all day.

Even then, bike park speed is bike park speed...

 

[jonKranked]

Even then, bike park speed is bike park speed...

my only "concern" with the helmet would be the risk of something (branch, rock, etc) going through that huge gap in the chin bar, and maybe some of the big open vents. probably a low risk, but a risk nonetheless.

 

[jonKranked]

it seems that this is more targeted at the enduro market, rather than DH, no?

 

[StiHacka]

it seems that this is more targeted at the enduro market, rather than DH, no?

When I see this, I am not so sure anymore.

 

[jonKranked]

When I see this, I am not so sure anymore.

BRO

 

[MrBaker87]

Can anyone elaborate more on why the switchblade is a bad helmet? I am strongly considering one for places that have gnarly dh trails accesible from climbing trails. Local to me Predator at Tiger mtn in Issaquah, Wa is a good example. Pemberton is another good example. I have ridden both many times in a half shell, but i broke three vertebrae this summer and would like to safety up a bit.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Given the cost, lack of adaptability (no chin removal), and all out stupid look of this thing I say no. I am not very much for this 1 helmet thing, I'd rather own two but if you absolutely need to buy one of them get the giro. Climbing on a hot day w/ a chin sucks...

 

[StiHacka]

Can anyone elaborate more on why the switchblade is a bad helmet? I am strongly considering one for places that have gnarly dh trails accesible from climbing trails. Local to me Predator at Tiger mtn in Issaquah, Wa is a good example. Pemberton is another good example. I have ridden both many times in a half shell, but i broke three vertebrae this summer and would like to safety up a bit.

It isn't a bad helmet, but it isn't a DH helmet either.

 

[slimshady]

I witnessed when a friend's Bell Super 2r disintegrated with an impact a true dh helmet would surely had managed properly. He got a concussion, experienced memory loss, and we had a hell of a scary moment. He got a nice blow to the side of his head, just above the chin bar's retention mechanism.

This was while doing some endubro™ laps, not in a proper DH track. I wouldn't trust my head to any removable chin bar helmet after that.

 

[4130biker]

I'm gonna take a look at this thing and see if it seems worthy. Had a bell 2r delivered and it was an uncomfortable POS compared to my A1. Sent it back. Maybe the ol DH lid hangin off the backsack is the way to go when climbing and real DH are mixed...

 

[CheetaMike]

WHY!!!! is more the question , it,s a perfect trail helmet , not a park or DH lid .

 

[slimshady]

WHY!!!! is more the question , it,s a perfect trail helmet , not a park or DH lid .

I'm thinking of the PERCEIVED safety/coverage here. You might feel way more protected than you really are, and might end up taking higher risks than with a regular trail helmet. In that way, these helmets might become concussion magnets.

 

[Lelandjt]

Meh, I've been using a TLD D2 for DH, enduro, and even moto trail riding for years. This thing has to be at least as strong as that, right? I guess I like light, well ventilated helmets. I saw this last July and have been itching to get one since.

 

[Sandwich]

I dunno, if it meets the same standards as my bell and giro DH lids, then I'd be comfortable with it. IIRC, the ASTM1952 falls somewhere between CPSC bike helmets and DOT moto lids. DOT lids being stiffer and multi impact resistant, and CPSC disintegrating when you fart wrong. I was under the impression that the chin bar has to be reinforced to a certain strength rating, and the helmet itself has to be multi-impact protected and less penetrable by rocks n shit. Don't quote me on that though.

I would be concerned with the large holes in the bar, but let's get real- there are large holes above and below the chin bar that are just as risky. I have crashed multiple times and the bar saved my face, all I got was a little dirty. So, if the bar on this helmets meets the same standards, I would trust it. The ventilation has to be wonderful. The one thing my bell helmet does particularly well is to make me feel safe inside my little cocoon. Being able to breathe is a very distant ways down the list.

 

[jonKranked]

I was under the impression that the chin bar has to be reinforced to a certain strength rating,

per the ASTM standard (the 09 version i have access to, not the current):

10.1 The chin bar rigidity test applies to helmets with a chin
bar only.

10.2 If a chin bar is present, it shall be tested in accordance
with the procedures in Test Methods F 1446, Chin Bar Rigidity
Test, with an impact velocity of 2.8 m/s 6 5 % (corresponding
to a theoretical drop height of 0.4 m), using a fifth ambient
sample that has not been subjected to any other impact testing.
The maximum deflection of the chin bar shall not exceed
60 mm.

helmet itself has to be multi-impact protected

incorrect, based on the '09 version (doubt that has changed). also, this is an EPS helmet, EPS is really one and done. if you truly want multi-impact protection you should be using EPP.

less penetrable by rocks n shit.

i believe that's the moto (DOT) standards. nothing about that in ASTM 1952.

Don't quote me on that though.

too late.

 

[Sandwich]

hmm, I may have misspoke. I know the material is EPS, but I thought the shell had to be more resistant to penetration. I remember reading that somewhere. Like one of the big differences between CPSC and 1952 was the chinbar specs and the durability of the shell to puncture impacts. then DOT and 1952 was speed of impact, double impact, and abrasion resistance.

 

[kidwoo]

If that design were as strong as a fullface (which is designed to protect your face when you fall on it), it would have already been the standard. It isn't. It's an afterthought. Just like enduro itself.

Looks like you could smoke cigars with it though. Those windows look pretty sweet for that.

 

[jonKranked]

If that design were as strong as a fullface (which is designed to protect your face when you fall on it), it would have already been the standard. It isn't. It's an afterthought. Just like enduro itself.

Looks like you could smoke cigars with it though. Those windows look pretty sweet for that.

you could probably block those vents with a multitool or clif bar or whatever else the average enduro rider puts in their fanny pack.

 

[slimshady]

you could probably block those vents with a multitool or clif bar or whatever else the average enduro rider puts in their fanny pack.

Paging @mtg , Paging @mtg ...

 

[mtg]

Paging @mtg , Paging @mtg ...

Nah man, put that shit on the frame!

(I thought you were paging me to make fun of my enduro helmet dorky look, which is completely plausible)

 

[kidwoo]

Your enduro helmet look is an embarrassment to everyone forced to look at you.

(don't even know what you're talking about but just covering bases)

 

[jonKranked]

maybe those vents in the chin bar are so big so you can still smell the Spirit of Enduro™

 

[mtg]

Your enduro helmet look is an embarrassment to everyone forced to look at you.

(don't even know what you're talking about but just covering bases)

Sounds like @kidwoo gets hangry after being buried under snow for awhile

 

[kidwoo]

Sounds like @kidwoo gets hangry after being buried under snow for awhile

Actually I am kind of pissed. It reached the 40s today for the first time in months. Not too happy about that.

Other than that, yeah. Life's been rough.

 

[Gary]

if you think you need a helmet to climb you should probably get the lift back down just to be on the safe side.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

if you think you need a helmet to climb you should probably get the lift back down just to be on the safe side.

You ever hear of a mechanical, Chico? Before I wised up, I wound up spending a week in a neurological ward due to a head injury that occurred while going slowly on flat ground.

 

[kidwoo]

I don't care what the verdict on the helmet is, I'm just happy that I'll be calling Gary "chico" from now on.