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Frame recommendations etc.

Shibby

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
180
0
cambridge, ma
So I've got this little fantasy going of building up a trials bike for foolin around and learning moves, and to begin I'd have to know how much I'm going to have to throw down on a frame. Anyone know of any trials-specific or trials-ish frames for under $250?

Also looking for a good chainring bashguard that's 4x104 compatible...

From there, I was thinkin...

CroMo rigid fork 1-1/8" black
FSA Pig DH Pro black
Thomson 100mm stem black
Specialized SpecialRise 27x1.5 black (already got it)
Kalloy Uno post (cut way short) and allen key binder
GT road saddle (ti rails) (already got it)
Specialized BigArm ISIS 175mm, TruVativ Hussefelt DH BB ISIS (already got em)
bashguard -- ?
Vuelta chainring 4x64... somewhere between 22 and 28 teeth. I was leaning towards 28 just so I could pedal out someplace...
cheap metal caged pedals - Man O War makes a pair that are silver body / red outer cage that are cheeeeep
Rohloff trials-specific chain (thick plates) SLT-99 trials or summat...
SRAM 7.0 11-34t 9spd cassette (again - i think i'll be ok w/28t) (already got this)
Shimano Deore rear mech 9spd black
Shimano Deore shifter 9spd black (already got it)
Avid SD-5 brakes and levers (madbiker has them and they're super nice!) - anything better for a similar price point?, KoolStop black pads w/wiper
Salsa Arch de Tri Oomph - front & rear black
Front wheel: Deore hub black 32h, DT 15g spokes, 15g brass nipples, Sun Rhyno Lite 32h black, IRC BackCountry 26x2.25, XC presta tube
Rear wheel: LX silent clutch 36h, DT 14g spokes, 14g brass nipples, Sun Rhyno Lite 36h black, IRC Kujo DH 26x2.25 (if i can find), otherwise 2.35, Kenda "freeride" presta tube

so whaddya say? any parts i should change for lighter/more durable/better/worse? it's kind of a budget thing so if there's a place i could remove some $$, i think i'd take it...

Oh yeah, thoughts on frames & bashguards are mucho appreciated.

How often am I going to loose my chain without a front deraileur or any kind of chain gizmo?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,866
2,328
The problem with generic (non-trials-specific) small frames is that they're not long enough. I ran a 13.5" Specialized M2 as a stock bike for a while, and although both I and my feet are hardly gigantic I was very cramped (had to run a 150 mm stem to get out over the front wheel) and hit my feet on the front wheel all the time. Not cool. Neither of these problems are present on a properly designed frame, such as the Norco.
 

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,127
0
Pasadena, CA
Originally posted by Shibby
So I've got this little fantasy going of building up a trials bike for foolin around and learning moves, and to begin I'd have to know how much I'm going to have to throw down on a frame. Anyone know of any trials-specific or trials-ish frames for under $250?

Also looking for a good chainring bashguard that's 4x104 compatible...

From there, I was thinkin...

CroMo rigid fork 1-1/8" black
FSA Pig DH Pro black
Thomson 100mm stem black
Specialized SpecialRise 27x1.5 black (already got it)
Kalloy Uno post (cut way short) and allen key binder
GT road saddle (ti rails) (already got it)
Specialized BigArm ISIS 175mm, TruVativ Hussefelt DH BB ISIS (already got em)
bashguard -- ?
Vuelta chainring 4x64... somewhere between 22 and 28 teeth. I was leaning towards 28 just so I could pedal out someplace...
cheap metal caged pedals - Man O War makes a pair that are silver body / red outer cage that are cheeeeep
Rohloff trials-specific chain (thick plates) SLT-99 trials or summat...
SRAM 7.0 11-34t 9spd cassette (again - i think i'll be ok w/28t) (already got this)
Shimano Deore rear mech 9spd black
Shimano Deore shifter 9spd black (already got it)
Avid SD-5 brakes and levers (madbiker has them and they're super nice!) - anything better for a similar price point?, KoolStop black pads w/wiper
Salsa Arch de Tri Oomph - front & rear black
Front wheel: Deore hub black 32h, DT 15g spokes, 15g brass nipples, Sun Rhyno Lite 32h black, IRC BackCountry 26x2.25, XC presta tube
Rear wheel: LX silent clutch 36h, DT 14g spokes, 14g brass nipples, Sun Rhyno Lite 36h black, IRC Kujo DH 26x2.25 (if i can find), otherwise 2.35, Kenda "freeride" presta tube

so whaddya say? any parts i should change for lighter/more durable/better/worse? it's kind of a budget thing so if there's a place i could remove some $$, i think i'd take it...

Oh yeah, thoughts on frames & bashguards are mucho appreciated.

How often am I going to loose my chain without a front deraileur or any kind of chain gizmo?
Everything sounds pretty good...buy a cheapo no name stem...you don't need a Thompson. Get some stempads too, Roach or Core Rat. In the next year you'll start seeing a lot more of Echos on the scene. They're a solid platform with new innovative frames coming out..they've got 4 stock frames and 2 mod frames available. You don't need the Rhynolite up front..in fact try to make the front as light as possible..I don't know how much you weigh but if its not that much consider a radial laced double butted wheel laced to a 517 or a 317 if you decide to use disks. bashguards really depend on what kind of riding you plan to do, street or natural. Street is easier to learn on so try to run a smooth or relatively smooth bashguard, cuz toothy bashguards can quickly jack up park benches and concrete corners.
Rohloff trials chain is kinda expensive and doesn't really offer that much more strength. Go SRam and use the powerlink adapter that comes with it. Use steel chainrings and chainring bolts, I've tacoed my chainring after 4 of my allow chainring bolts sheared off completely.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,866
2,328
But don't do radial if you go the disc route. (adding to Dog Welder's post)
 

Shibby

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
180
0
cambridge, ma
from my experience with brakes and such in DH, DS, jumping, etc, i'd have to say that i like vees better for non-wet, non-sloppy, non-high-speed conditions... so vees it is SD-5s i believe

will probably get one of the OEM specialized stems my shop has sitting about for cheep. i have a roach stem pad - good idea!

i promise to look into echo! cheap is still the name of the game, though

i think i'll stick with the deore hub 32h up front with 15g spokes and nipples, but probably go to a Sun 0degree Lite. cheaper than the x517... radial is a good thought. has anyone ever tried running a road front hub? lighter... maybe a 32hole 105? or are they not meant for that much load?

i thought the rohloff chain sounded like a good idea, but after what you said, and seeing as how i run PC-69s on my other 2 bikes... i'll go sram.

i can get cheap steel 'rings, and i'll look into bolts. stainless steel maybe? as far as bashguards, my jumping bike currently runs 2 raceface bashguards sandwiching my 32t ring with a truvativ boomerang and upper mrp roller... i like them [the bashrings] a lot, but i wonder if a single one of them would be enough to withstand bashring moves...? and yes, i'll probably be learning on street stuff.

thanks dogwelder!


Originally posted by Dog Welder


Everything sounds pretty good...buy a cheapo no name stem...you don't need a Thompson. Get some stempads too, Roach or Core Rat. In the next year you'll start seeing a lot more of Echos on the scene. They're a solid platform with new innovative frames coming out..they've got 4 stock frames and 2 mod frames available. You don't need the Rhynolite up front..in fact try to make the front as light as possible..I don't know how much you weigh but if its not that much consider a radial laced double butted wheel laced to a 517 or a 317 if you decide to use disks. bashguards really depend on what kind of riding you plan to do, street or natural. Street is easier to learn on so try to run a smooth or relatively smooth bashguard, cuz toothy bashguards can quickly jack up park benches and concrete corners.
Rohloff trials chain is kinda expensive and doesn't really offer that much more strength. Go SRam and use the powerlink adapter that comes with it. Use steel chainrings and chainring bolts, I've tacoed my chainring after 4 of my allow chainring bolts sheared off completely.
 

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,127
0
Pasadena, CA
Originally posted by Shibby
from my experience with brakes and such in DH, DS, jumping, etc, i'd have to say that i like vees better for non-wet, non-sloppy, non-high-speed conditions... so vees it is SD-5s i believe

will probably get one of the OEM specialized stems my shop has sitting about for cheep. i have a roach stem pad - good idea!

i promise to look into echo! cheap is still the name of the game, though

i think i'll stick with the deore hub 32h up front with 15g spokes and nipples, but probably go to a Sun 0degree Lite. cheaper than the x517... radial is a good thought. has anyone ever tried running a road front hub? lighter... maybe a 32hole 105? or are they not meant for that much load?

i thought the rohloff chain sounded like a good idea, but after what you said, and seeing as how i run PC-69s on my other 2 bikes... i'll go sram.

i can get cheap steel 'rings, and i'll look into bolts. stainless steel maybe? as far as bashguards, my jumping bike currently runs 2 raceface bashguards sandwiching my 32t ring with a truvativ boomerang and upper mrp roller... i like them [the bashrings] a lot, but i wonder if a single one of them would be enough to withstand bashring moves...? and yes, i'll probably be learning on street stuff.

thanks dogwelder!


If this is going to be a trials specific bike then go with a bashguard that just covers the granny...easier to balance on when you ride up to bashguard. Road bike hub up front is a good idea...never thought of that...name of the game lighten the front as possible. YOur front end hardly ever sees more load than your body weight. The rear end will be heavy enough with that Silent Clutch...its a freakin boat anchor...no joke. When I finish building my new bike it will be running disks front and rear.
 

Shibby

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
180
0
cambridge, ma
Do you have any recommendations for a non-toothy bashguard that covers granny-only? What's to be done about the 4 arms that stick out (for mounting the larger rings)?

Perhaps I'll get a 105 32h hub for future use :) sounds like a decent idea along with radial, 15g, etc.

Any suggestions for a comprably priced rear hub (I'd say <$60 retail) with solid engagement and durability that might weigh a bit less? Shimano XT?

I see the advantages of discs (having run Avid CPS, Hayes HMX, Hayes Comp Hydro, Hayes DH Purple, Hayes Champagne on a variety of bikes), but do a properly set-up set of vees not offer comprable or better power and feel with less weight and at a lower price point? Just trying to figure out *why* discs... not at all against the idea, though!

Gracias para su ayuda. Let the discussion continue...

Originally posted by Dog Welder


If this is going to be a trials specific bike then go with a bashguard that just covers the granny...easier to balance on when you ride up to bashguard. Road bike hub up front is a good idea...never thought of that...name of the game lighten the front as possible. YOur front end hardly ever sees more load than your body weight. The rear end will be heavy enough with that Silent Clutch...its a freakin boat anchor...no joke. When I finish building my new bike it will be running disks front and rear.
 

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,127
0
Pasadena, CA
Originally posted by Shibby
Do you have any recommendations for a non-toothy bashguard that covers granny-only? What's to be done about the 4 arms that stick out (for mounting the larger rings)?

Perhaps I'll get a 105 32h hub for future use :) sounds like a decent idea along with radial, 15g, etc.

Any suggestions for a comprably priced rear hub (I'd say <$60 retail) with solid engagement and durability that might weigh a bit less? Shimano XT?

I see the advantages of discs (having run Avid CPS, Hayes HMX, Hayes Comp Hydro, Hayes DH Purple, Hayes Champagne on a variety of bikes), but do a properly set-up set of vees not offer comprable or better power and feel with less weight and at a lower price point? Just trying to figure out *why* discs... not at all against the idea, though!

Gracias para su ayuda. Let the discussion continue...

Non toothy bashguad...Planet x makes a nice one, and I think black spire also makes one...my favorite place for trials stuff is www.webcyclery.com. They always treat me right. As for the hub...there is no other budget choice. IMO for low end hubs the Silent clutch is the ONLY choice and for high end a CK with steel freehub is the ONLY choice...thoough Hadley I hear is making a trials hub but I don't know the durability of it yet. Disks have better power, engagement and feel than V's only problem is that on most trials frames aren't properly designed for disks. I'm sponsored by Brake Therapy and they make a bolt on disk adapter unit for bikes that don't have disk tabs. Its essentially a floating disk brake that bolts over one of the v brake bosses. It transfers the braking forces to an area that's designed to take it. Rim brakes work great but I compete hear in So Cal where its real dusty and the layers of dust on the rims dramatically reduce braking power. I got tired of cleaning my rims after EVERY ride...plus I have to stop 2 hrs into riding cuz my brakes have started to fade.
 

madbiker

Chimp
Jul 6, 2001
55
0
Nor Cal
I know a certain somebody who would like a 104x4 Raceface guard. ;) Dude, just get the one at the shop and be done with it. Then you can be all Racefaced out, and people will be like damn, he's got a Raceface bashguard, he must be pro. Or something like that.....:p
 

Shibby

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
180
0
cambridge, ma


could this be construed in any way as a good idea? keep in mind that i have the 14" frame in silver picked out, not the 19" in blue :D

seriously though, 3.86lbs, 21" TT, 16.5" chainstays, 12" bb height, replaceable dropout... $99! how'd it be for learning on?
 

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,127
0
Pasadena, CA
For intro riding it be alright...the only problem with those is that the TT is so short that your forward foot will be hitting the back of the front tire as you learn how to trackstand....aside from that ehh...I've got a steel Rockhopper about the same size I can sell you with bb and seat post included.