[Udi]

@Udi @HABVery much digging them overall, but the inside front piston only moves freely whe. The outside piston is pinned down. I have tried all the usual tricks of cleaning in/lubing it, but no success.

What did you lube with?
If you used some decent dot-friendly grease and still no dice then definitely need to replace piston/seals - like HAB said they're cheap and Formula parts are pretty easy to get globally in my experience. The piston/seal combo is only a few bucks more than the seals alone so get both (comes with grease). Bit of a time consuming job but air compressor helps to pop the old pistons out, and having the lever ziptied to grip while drawing light vacuum + light compression cycles (on syringe at caliper, repeatedly, after some attempt at filling system) gets the air out pretty fast with the threaded bleed system.

 

[marshalolson]

What did you lube with?
If you used some decent dot-friendly grease and still no dice then definitely need to replace piston/seals - like HAB said they're cheap and Formula parts are pretty easy to get globally in my experience. The piston/seal combo is only a few bucks more than the seals alone so get both (comes with grease). Bit of a time consuming job but air compressor helps to pop the old pistons out, and having the lever ziptied to grip while drawing light vacuum + light compression cycles (on syringe at caliper, repeatedly, after some attempt at filling system) gets the air out pretty fast with the threaded bleed system.

I just used DOT to lube it.

Is there a grease you recommend? I have DT hub grease, white lithium grease, slickoleum, waterproof all purpose grease, finishline PTFE stanction lube all here. Maybe some silicon spray grease too.

Any of those good to use? Thanks!

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Is there a grease you recommend?

https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/brake-piston-maintenance.277711/#post-4170624
And a few posts thereafter

 

[Udi]

I just used DOT to lube it.

I thought so, that's why I asked.
DOT fluid isn't really an external lubricant for piston seals (at all, it's massively hygroscopic so it would vanish the first time the bike got wet). See my post happymtb linked for my recommendation. That stuff is expensive, you can use silicone grease in a pinch (a food-safe one would limit the chances of damaging additives), though it won't last as long, probably still do OK. Slick honey is a no-go, it contains petroleum distillates which will damage EPDM seals in DOT brakes.

Not having a crack at you btw, the seals definitely do get tired and may well need replacing (Formula running the rollback so tight are more sensitive than others to this too), but if you don't have the time to deal with the hassle atm then make sure you're lubricating them correctly to have the best chance of success.

On top of the link above, here's more (careful with the mineral-specific and DOT-specific info though):
https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/frankenbrakes-and-brake-improvement-discussion.274164/page-17#post-4266430
https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/frankenbrakes-and-brake-improvement-discussion.274164/page-17#post-4266337
https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/frankenbrakes-and-brake-improvement-discussion.274164/page-17#post-4266565

If you order up the seal kit you could also just use a little of the included grease (kluber, decent stuff) to lube your current setup until you have the time to do the actual rebuild.
Good luck!

 

[Nick]

https://www.bikerumor.com/2018/02/11/prototype-formula-selva-suspension-fork-cura-4-piston-brakes-spotted/

Looky looky....

 

[chris_f]

Holy shit, those are sleek!

 

[Nick]

I wish I had a digital scale, these feel light.

 

[jstuhlman]

I wish I had a digital scale, these feel light.

where did you get them?

 

[Nick]

where did you get them?

Brake Hut!



Preordered through the best shop buddy in the world. Gonna go bolt them up and see if I can get a test ride in before dark.

 

[6thElement]

Brake Hut!



Preordered through the best shop buddy in the world. Gonna go bolt them up and see if I can get a test ride in before dark.

Results of the test?
I'd like to see how the levers feel sometime please if you give them the thumbs up for breaking ability.

I wear XL gloves and even with the reach all the way in on my RO's I'd still like them a touch closer.

 

[HAB]

I wear XL gloves and even with the reach all the way in on my RO's I'd still like them a touch closer.

Which lever style? The newer ROR pull MC levers get much closer than the original ROs.

 

[6thElement]

Which lever style? The newer ROR pull MC levers get much closer than the original ROs.

Few years old, not the newer lever.

 

[Nick]

Results of the test?
I'd like to see how the levers feel sometime please if you give them the thumbs up for breaking ability.

I wear XL gloves and even with the reach all the way in on my RO's I'd still like them a touch closer.

Flying colors.
I ran them on my RFX for the shake down / break in. Now I've trimmed the lines and installed them on the DH bike but didn't get out on it yesterday. I have zero reservations about these on the big bike.

I have the levers pulled in pretty close (also xl gloves) and the total throw is def less compared to my Shimano levers.

 

[MrBaker87]

The SLX levers I have running my Magura MT5 calipers are pretty shot and letting in more air than I believe they should. Looking at replacing them soon. What do you Monkeys suggest? Another set of SLX/XT levers? Or splurge a little for some XTR race levers (no servo wave)?

 

[Happymtb.fr]

How long did you have those Slx levers?
I am running BL-MT500 since about 10 months now on my MT trail Shigura which would be close to 2000km of mostly trail riding and I have no complain so far. I bled them twice Marsh-style as preventive maintenance and the oil was blackish in a typical Shimano fashion.
Please take note that I don't ride much bikepark and that the trails I ride the most don't have long downhills which means that my brake don't run really hot for long periods. On the other hand I had no issues when riding in the mountains this summer.
FWIW

 

[MrBaker87]

How long did you have those Slx levers?
I am running BL-MT500 since about 10 months now on my MT trail Shigura which would be close to 2000km of mostly trail riding and I have no complain so far. I bled them twice Marsh-style as preventive maintenance and the oil was blackish in a typical Shimano fashion.
Please take note that I don't ride much bikepark and that the trails I ride the most don't have long downhills which means that my brake don't run really hot for long periods. On the other hand I had no issues when riding in the mountains this summer.
FWIW

Roughly four years.

I ride lots of bike park with mine (20-30 days a year). We also have long, steep downhills here. Being that I live in Washington (USA) just south of the border to B.C.

I ride mountains year round.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Roughly four years.

Then I guess that swapping those toasted levers for new ones will be safe.
Servo wave or not will change the lever feel but I don't think it influences the longevity of the seals unless Shimano has different materials and/or finish for their high end levers?

How do you know the leakage is at the levers by the way?

 

[Olly]

Been trying the Deore M6000 levers. I seem to be quite talented at getting Shimano lever death syndrome, and my M785 levers needed replacing. In use, they've been just as nice as the more expensive ones. I’ve attached them to some older XTR M985 callipers and they feel just as good as the XT 785 levers they replaced. They’ve done a week of lift assisted stuff in the Dolomites and some very long days and big descents riding the GTHA route in the Hautes-Alpes, France. Fluid remained pink throughout and no significant air ingress. Still pretty early days though.

One big significant but though: They don't seem to be made of the same high quality metal as the more expensive levers (obviously). I also fitted them to my GF’s bike (with XT 785 callipers). Again, they feel great and have done the same trips to the mountains. On one of her levers, the bleed port bolt appears to have welded itself to the threads in the master cyclinder. So while in France I went to undo the bleed port and the the bolt and the master cylinder thread came away as one. Fully awesome. Instant dead lever and a lot of loud rude words.

Luckily we were able to pick up an Acera lever in a little bike shop in Gap and continue the holiday! Turns out they're compatible with 785 callipers too.

Edit: Forgot to mention the most important thing. I haven't experienced the wandering bite point issue at all with the M6000 levers. Yet.

 

[ucsbwsr]

The SLX levers I have running my Magura MT5 calipers are pretty shot and letting in more air than I believe they should. Looking at replacing them soon. What do you Monkeys suggest? Another set of SLX/XT levers? Or splurge a little for some XTR race levers (no servo wave)?

How long did you have those Slx levers?
I am running BL-MT500 since about 10 months now on my MT trail Shigura which would be close to 2000km of mostly trail riding and I have no complain so far. I bled them twice Marsh-style as preventive maintenance and the oil was blackish in a typical Shimano fashion.
Please take note that I don't ride much bikepark and that the trails I ride the most don't have long downhills which means that my brake don't run really hot for long periods. On the other hand I had no issues when riding in the mountains this summer.
FWIW

I have a set of Magura MT Trail brakes with the rear caliper upgraded to an MT5, although it took a few bleeds to get them setup correctly I am a big fan of the power and modulation. Considering the exceptional price/performance value of the MT5s I snagged another pair along with some Shimano M7000 levers (thanks to this thread). I successfully mated the lever to the Magura hose and caliper and during the bedding process I noticed oil weeping from the line itself which is very odd since I don't think I accidently cut the line with a razor and I doubt it would split from pressure.

I will be replacing the line and was hoping you guys can confirm if the Shimano BH90 hose with banjo fitting will bolt up to the Magura MT5 caliper, or if you have a recommendation for the ideal hose/fitting combination to connect the M7000 levers and MT5 calipers. It seems the Shimano/Magura hoses can use each other's barb but my olive got smashed a little sideways (no issue with seal) which makes me think the Shimano lines maybe have a slightly larger outer diameter.

Any input is appreciated, thanks!

 

[shmity]

Flying colors.
I ran them on my RFX for the shake down / break in. Now I've trimmed the lines and installed them on the DH bike but didn't get out on it yesterday. I have zero reservations about these on the big bike.

I have the levers pulled in pretty close (also xl gloves) and the total throw is def less compared to my Shimano levers.

How are they now after a full month? I'm starting to see listings pop up but no one has stock....

 

[MrBaker87]

You’re going to have to use the Magura banjo/hose. Shimano oilves/barbs fit however. I do not believe there are any alternatives to the Magura banjo fitting. The jag wire replacements are reported to also not work.

 

[StiHacka]

You’re going to have to use the Magura banjo/hose. Shimano oilves/barbs fit however. I do not believe there are any alternatives to the Magura banjo fitting. The jag wire replacements are reported to also not work.

This. Magura uses different size banjo/bolt so you have to use their hoses. That is the only weak point of Shimano/Magura Frankenbrakes, because the Magura banjos will eventually fail. I didn't have luck with Jagwire banjos either, others reported success though.

 

[ucsbwsr]

@MrBaker87 Thank you.

This. Magura uses different size banjo/bolt so you have to use their hoses. That is the only weak point of Shimano/Magura Frankenbrakes, because the Magura banjos will eventually fail. I didn't have luck with Jagwire banjos either, others reported success though.

Thanks for confirming. How exactly does the banjo fitting fail? Is it the crimped connection on the hose?

 

[StiHacka]

Thanks for confirming. How exactly does the banjo fitting fail? Is it the crimped connection on the hose?

Yes, it leaks from under the metal tube. Here's a picture of my scientific leak-o-meter - I wrapped some cord around the joins and watched where and how quickly it got saturated with mineral oil.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

I have an irritating clicking noise on my bike that I finally located to the rear brake caliper. The magnets on my Magura trail / MT4 are apparently not strong enough to keep the pads in place...
Anyone had the same issue and how did you fix it?

 

[canadmos]

I have a set of Magura MT Trail brakes with the rear caliper upgraded to an MT5, although it took a few bleeds to get them setup correctly I am a big fan of the power and modulation. Considering the exceptional price/performance value of the MT5s I snagged another pair along with some Shimano M7000 levers (thanks to this thread). I successfully mated the lever to the Magura hose and caliper and during the bedding process I noticed oil weeping from the line itself which is very odd since I don't think I accidently cut the line with a razor and I doubt it would split from pressure.

I will be replacing the line and was hoping you guys can confirm if the Shimano BH90 hose with banjo fitting will bolt up to the Magura MT5 caliper, or if you have a recommendation for the ideal hose/fitting combination to connect the M7000 levers and MT5 calipers. It seems the Shimano/Magura hoses can use each other's barb but my olive got smashed a little sideways (no issue with seal) which makes me think the Shimano lines maybe have a slightly larger outer diameter.

Any input is appreciated, thanks!

Can you tell us more about Hank? It looks ///Interesting.

 

[ZHendo]

Sorry to derail, but question for you guys about the latest gen SRAM Code brakes. I built 2 new bikes up at the beginning of the season, and ended up buying Code RSCs for both.

I used to be a mechanic, and wrench on all of my own stuff. I swore off of Shimano after reliability issues with SLX and XT and many sets of inexplicably ruined pads and rotors, and also off of Avid after Elixirs, but damn these Codes had some amazing reviews, and continue to receive huge accolades.

Long story short, both sets won’t hold a solid bleed for more than a few rides. Short of submersing these things in a goddamn DOT bath, I’m not sure how I could get a better bleed than I have been getting, and yet they degrade super fast.

Is anyone else having this issue? I haven’t flipped through other pages in the thread, so maybe it has already been discussed, but are these things unreliable or just tricky to bleed? I’m confused because they have such amazingly positive reviews, but I’ve had such a rough go so far.

 

[vinny4130]

I think the code master cyclinder is harder to chase out air than guide MC. I finished my brake bleeds with an open cup (think Shimano style) and chase the last little f-er out. Rotate the lever from flat to up, back to pointing down and all over again, each new position pulling the lever slow and holding pulled in for a moment maybe a flick or two. The bubble will work it’s way out.

 

[vinny4130]

Also I just bled the new Hayes today and the double bleed ports on the caliper may have some merit pulled bubbles out of both sides kinda makes sense, or they leave air in to justify the ports. Lever feel is very light, I can’t wait to ride with them.

 

[Flo33]

Also I just bled the new Hayes today and the double bleed ports on the caliper may have some merit pulled bubbles out of both sides kinda makes sense, or they leave air in to justify the ports. Lever feel is very light, I can’t wait to ride with them.

Please report back.

 

[Bike078]

I code master cyclinder is harder to chase out air than guide MC. I finish my brake bleeds with an open cup (think Shimano style) and chase the last little f-er out. Rotate the lever from flat to up, back to pointing down and all over again, each new position pulling the lever slow and holding pulled in for a moment maybe a flick or two. The bubble will work it’s way out.

Thanks. So it's 2 brakes 1 cup?

 

[slimshady]

Long story short, both sets won’t hold a solid bleed for more than a few rides. Short of submersing these things in a goddamn DOT bath, I’m not sure how I could get a better bleed than I have been getting, and yet they degrade super fast.

If the lever ends up going all the way to the the handlebars, you might have one of those rare cases where the master cylinder bore isn't completely cylindrical. I have seen this happen a couple of times. No bleed could cure it.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Sorry to derail, but question for you guys about the latest gen SRAM Code brakes. I built 2 new bikes up at the beginning of the season, and ended up buying Code RSCs for both.

I used to be a mechanic, and wrench on all of my own stuff. I swore off of Shimano after reliability issues with SLX and XT and many sets of inexplicably ruined pads and rotors, and also off of Avid after Elixirs, but damn these Codes had some amazing reviews, and continue to receive huge accolades.

Long story short, both sets won’t hold a solid bleed for more than a few rides. Short of submersing these things in a goddamn DOT bath, I’m not sure how I could get a better bleed than I have been getting, and yet they degrade super fast.

Is anyone else having this issue? I haven’t flipped through other pages in the thread, so maybe it has already been discussed, but are these things unreliable or just tricky to bleed? I’m confused because they have such amazingly positive reviews, but I’ve had such a rough go so far.

Not sure if the lever bleed recommended by Magura works on Sram brakes, but it really is helpful on the Maguras.
I did normal bleeding after shortening the break lines and still had problems due to air in the lever. After the lever bleed, bitepoint was nice and consistent, even during 1500hm descents. It really does make a difference.

1. Rotate the lever horizontal and unscrew the bleed port.
2. Use a syringe with a bore above the 30ml mark and fill in 20ml oil or DOT and 5ml of air.
3. Connect the syringe wit the lever and pull and push a few times on the Syringe piston to get a vacuum and pressure in the system. Air bubbles should come out the lever.
4. Pull the piston above the bore to get normal pressure in the syringe. The breakfluid will level down.
5. Now you should have a nice bite point and no air in the lever anymore.

Below a video how to do it, although in german. Let me know, if it wrks like that on Sram brakes aswell.

 

[vinny4130]

After the caliper is air free I don’t use a plunger in the syringe in the master cylinder for sram or magura. I try to only use the excess revisor at the highest position trying to work out the bubble. Pulling/sucking the air out seems to draw air around the port seal at the syringe. Floating it out via multi lever position has been the way it works for me.

I hope to ride the new Hayes brakes tomorrow the lever is the lightiest I have ever felt but initial impression is lots of power. So different from anything else out there. So different I’m still not sure I bled them right. Bed them in some what with the metallics my brakes came with organics too but started with my past preference. I think I can say if you like the lever feel of shimano you won’t like the Hayes lever geo is more like the old avid or the Trp not short like shimano or new formula. I think I should start a review thread and stop clogging up this one.... I’ll need to ride first.

 

[vinny4130]

Yes, it leaks from under the metal tube. Here's a picture of my scientific leak-o-meter - I wrapped some cord around the joins and watched where and how quickly it got saturated with mineral oil.

This is a problem I haven’t faced (but I will look for it) and I have seen and see a number of current maguras. I should also say that the more expensive the magura is the less roll back is in the piston seal, buying the more expensive magura is a waist so is the 4 individual pads. MT trails are money! Just my two cents.

 

[Da Peach]

Not sure if the lever bleed recommended by Magura works on Sram brakes, but it really is helpful on the Maguras.
I did normal bleeding after shortening the break lines and still had problems due to air in the lever. After the lever bleed, bitepoint was nice and consistent, even during 1500hm descents. It really does make a difference.

1. Rotate the lever horizontal and unscrew the bleed port.
2. Use a syringe with a bore above the 30ml mark and fill in 20ml oil or DOT and 5ml of air.
3. Connect the syringe wit the lever and pull and push a few times on the Syringe piston to get a vacuum and pressure in the system. Air bubbles should come out the lever.
4. Pull the piston above the bore to get normal pressure in the syringe. The breakfluid will level down.
5. Now you should have a nice bite point and no air in the lever anymore.

Below a video how to do it, although in german. Let me know, if it wrks like that on Sram brakes aswell.

Does he not have a fitting on that syringe? Looks like he just places it into the bleed port.

 

[vinny4130]

Non barbed syringe is the supplied one in the magura kit and the end is offset, and I also just push it into the port sans fitting.

 

[Da Peach]

Non barbed syringe is the supplied one in the magura kit and the end is offset, and I also just push it into the port sans fitting.

Non barbed? Can you post a pic? In need to tell my wife which to steal from the hospital.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Non barbed? Can you post a pic? In need to tell my wife which to steal from the hospital.

Non barbed. A regular 30ml syringe. Make sure to drill a little hole above the 30ml mark into it.

 

[vinny4130]

Or without the luer lock. Also if in a pinch and need magura blood KTM and Husqvarna use a magura hydro clutch levers so a lot of moto shops have the blue blood.