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Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,888
1,149
Seattle
I mean... nice work figuring it out and doing the modification. But remind me again what was wrong with regular separate clamps?


*shakes fist at cloud*
 

Andeh

Chimp
Mar 3, 2020
17
33
I mean... nice work figuring it out and doing the modification. But remind me again what was wrong with regular separate clamps?


*shakes fist at cloud*
Most of the time, nothing, and probably better for tweaking angle. But I've had issues before not being able to get the Eagle lever in the right spot laterally when using the MMX clamp and Magura clamp. When I put the MMX clamp on either side of the Magura clamp, it would be either too far out, or too far in, even when using the 2 different bolt holes for SRAM.

I also wanted to double check whether it was possible to do the mod ahead of time before my XTR setup ships, in case I needed to change my order to the clamp version. Shimano of course wants like $60 for a kit to convert the no-clamp shifter to the clamp version, or Problem Solvers wants $40 for an EV clamp.
 

slamc

Chimp
Jun 15, 2020
2
0
Hi. I quickly went trough the thread so perhaps missed the info about the correct technique for bleeding shigura combination (MT5+M7100 here). Do I follow magura or shimano procedure. Will be using shimano oil. Do I drain magura oil out of the caliper or push in up to lever/funnel. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,586
789
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Use the Shimano bleed procedure because it uses the funnel, and the funnel is the cats meow.

As for oil, who cares, use whatever you’re into, use a blend, use a squirt of every single mineral oil on the market, use a color you like, really does t seem to matter. Been running a mix and match of whatever I have handy for the better part of a decade in Shimano, magura and now formula brakes, zero issues to date.
 

MrBaker87

Monkey
Mar 30, 2014
113
46
neverlandranch
I’ve set up a number of Magura/Shimano hybrid brakes at this point.

Use a Magura compatible syringe to press new oil up throw the caliper and into the lever (which should have a shimano funnel attached).

Make sure to remove bubbles/air at syringe before inserting them into the caliper. For every 3ml you press in, pull back 1ml. That way, you get all the air out of all the cavities in the lever/caliper. I think the 3:1 press:pull is absolutely essential for a good bleed.

If you feel like that isn’t good enough, go ahead and disconnect the syringe from the caliper and close it up. Keep the funnel on the lever with a little fluid in it and press on your brake lever slowly and repetitively until all air is out of the system. Tap on your lines and adjust your brake lever height up and down to help facilitate.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,563
2,721
AK
That's genius, after 7,000 miles, they'll have to buy all new rotors when the finish wears off. Porsche knows how to make $$$ on options. I don't believe for one second that the rotors will last as long as they are claiming.
 
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troy

Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
871
460
That's genius, after 7,000 miles, they'll have to buy all new rotors when the finish wears off. Porsche knows how to make $$$ on options. I don't believe for one second that the rotors will last as long as they are claiming.
Dude, I don't know how it works in the US, but in the EU you cannot make false or misleading marketing claims, or they will fine the sh*t out of you. Not to mention how many tests (and certifications) have to be performed on such crucial components as brakes, to put it in the car. Also, I see no reason why it would not work.

"I know better" is not an argument.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,563
2,721
AK
Dude, I don't know how it works in the US, but in the EU you cannot make false or misleading marketing claims, or they will fine the sh*t out of you. Not to mention how many tests (and certifications) have to be performed on such crucial components as brakes, to put it in the car. Also, I see no reason why it would not work.

"I know better" is not an argument.
German cars are notorious for needing a shitload of parts and service when that 3 year/30K warranty runs out (recently shortened with BMW to something like 20k/2yr?). Besides that, Porsche is infamous for nickle-and-dime-ing people on options/upgrades. I'm sure these rotors are going to be horrendously expensive, 2-piece car rotors are already crazy expensive as OEM and this will probably bring the replacement price to what it would cost for carbon-ceramic for a non-porsche model. I'm sure if you are "not really braking much" they may last a while, vs. using the vehicle as it appears it's designed, probably logged by the ECU (oh, well you used a lot more brakes than most people, so you get to replace your rotors early!). Don't underestimate the ability of a business to stick it to the customer...that's their number one goal in life. IMO, most of these cars are only intended to last those 2-3 years that they are leased or bought and then sold. After that, it's crazy engine and powertrain repairs and good luck for the complicated electronics working 10 years down the road. Oh, I doubt they all get together and really try to "stick it to" anyone, but as far as the goal being reliability past warranty periods, I would say that's not even on the radar. BMW F10 V8s are horrible, the N20/26 throws the timing chain at 70K on a bunch of years due to a plastic part (class action lawsuit), engine bearings on porsche, the AMG engines that have multiple flaws with engine bolts, cams, etc., and so on. Porsche seems to be "better" than most on the whole, but given the general direction of this, I gravely doubt that this coating is worth it from the cost to performance factor. I bet when it comes out how much the rotors and special pads are and the performance (on a freaking SUV) it doesn't justify the cost over traditional iron rotors and big-calipers. All out performance?, maybe on a 911 S/GTS, but again it's hard to imagine these will be offered at a price that makes the additional performance make sense.
 

troy

Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
871
460
German cars are notorious for needing a shitload of parts and service when that 3 year/30K warranty runs out (recently shortened with BMW to something like 20k/2yr?). Besides that, Porsche is infamous for nickle-and-dime-ing people on options/upgrades. I'm sure these rotors are going to be horrendously expensive, 2-piece car rotors are already crazy expensive as OEM and this will probably bring the replacement price to what it would cost for carbon-ceramic for a non-porsche model. I'm sure if you are "not really braking much" they may last a while, vs. using the vehicle as it appears it's designed, probably logged by the ECU (oh, well you used a lot more brakes than most people, so you get to replace your rotors early!). Don't underestimate the ability of a business to stick it to the customer...that's their number one goal in life. IMO, most of these cars are only intended to last those 2-3 years that they are leased or bought and then sold. After that, it's crazy engine and powertrain repairs and good luck for the complicated electronics working 10 years down the road. Oh, I doubt they all get together and really try to "stick it to" anyone, but as far as the goal being reliability past warranty periods, I would say that's not even on the radar. BMW F10 V8s are horrible, the N20/26 throws the timing chain at 70K on a bunch of years due to a plastic part (class action lawsuit), engine bearings on porsche, the AMG engines that have multiple flaws with engine bolts, cams, etc., and so on. Porsche seems to be "better" than most on the whole, but given the general direction of this, I gravely doubt that this coating is worth it from the cost to performance factor. I bet when it comes out how much the rotors and special pads are and the performance (on a freaking SUV) it doesn't justify the cost over traditional iron rotors and big-calipers. All out performance?, maybe on a 911 S/GTS, but again it's hard to imagine these will be offered at a price that makes the additional performance make sense.
How is that an answer to my question? All I can say from Your answer, is that You either did not watch the video at all or did not watch the video from start to finish.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,563
2,721
AK
How is that an answer to my question? All I can say from Your answer, is that You either did not watch the video at all or did not watch the video from start to finish.
In short, no I don't believe the wear will last 50,000 miles or whatever. I've seen plenty of his other videos. In general, he's good, but sometimes he's emphasizing a point that gets over-ridden by other factors or is engineered-around in other ways. Give that cayanne a winter and summer, some salt, dust and other abrasive stuff, I really don't think it's going to last and I doubt Porsche is including literature to customers making any over-reaching claims. Performance increase? Probably some, but I'm sure there are going to be tradeoffs.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
2,465
355
Haha, 30% longer rotor life on a Euro car, so that will take them up to half the life expectancy of an Asian car's rotor, progress!
Glass roof Cayenne, probably owned by a bike industry lizard.
 

troy

Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
871
460
I'm talking here about the tech, not Your opinion on euro cars. If You want to go that route, we can. Imo and experience, US cars are garbage. What does it have to do with the rotor tech I have mentioned? Nothing :rolleyes:
 
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Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,563
2,721
AK
Getting Hope brake adapters for their 4 pot calipers (other adapters don't work, I've tried) turned out to be an adventure. Their US distributor runs a shit show.
That is disappoint, back in the day they were really good.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,527
234
Getting Hope brake adapters for their 4 pot calipers (other adapters don't work, I've tried) turned out to be an adventure. Their US distributor runs a shit show.
pretty sure JensonUSA carries their adapters. Easy ordering.

I like the Hope 7” adaptors as they use 4 bolts each, not 2 thru bolts. More better.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,888
1,149
Seattle
pretty sure JensonUSA carries their adapters. Easy ordering.

I like the Hope 7” adaptors as they use 4 bolts each, not 2 thru bolts. More better.
Magura, and I think also Hayes, make some like that too. So much better than the shitty two bolt style that clamps the caliper off parallel.
 
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dovbush66

Monkey
Aug 27, 2018
163
174
Ireland
So i have about 3 full days of dh riding on cura 4s, I'd say avoid.

the power is great but the lever feel is pretty bad and I had some small bite point wandering as the pads wore. Possibly i just have a bad set or really really suck at bleeding, but I will try cura 2s instead.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
pretty sure JensonUSA carries their adapters. Easy ordering.

I like the Hope 7” adaptors as they use 4 bolts each, not 2 thru bolts. More better.
I've tried other reliable merchants and they failed to deliver. Jenson takes forever to ship here by ground.
Also pissed at Hope that they need extra special adapters.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,586
789
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
What is it about other adapters that don't work with Hopes? Magura and Formula need special adapters as well, the caliper hits the adapter with Sram or Shitmano adapters, a Magura QM41 may work on those Hopes, I get mine for like $7 on ebay.

Unless we're talking front/74mm postmount adapters, then I've got zero ideas other than invading England, overthrowing the Queen and forcing Hope to make you one and deliver it to your new castle.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
What is it about other adapters that don't work with Hopes? Magura and Formula need special adapters as well, the caliper hits the adapter with Sram or Shitmano adapters, a Magura QM41 may work on those Hopes, I get mine for like $7 on ebay.

Unless we're talking front/74mm postmount adapters, then I've got zero ideas other than invading England, overthrowing the Queen and forcing Hope to make you one and deliver it to your new castle.
V4 won't clear a Magura QM7 or any Shimano PM 160-203 adapter because it is too deep, E4 won't clear frame with Magura QM10 or any Shimano IS R180, the caliper hits the tabs on the frame. The IS adapter is particularly tricky as it is out of stock everywhere and many items in stock are different adapters in original packaging mislabeled by Hope distributor.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,586
789
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
The QM41 is likely your huckleberry for the rear. The with the QM10 the MT5/7 calipers hit the frame as do Cura 4s not the adapter. I found the pic I sent Magura and I misspoke, caliper hits the frame not the adapter, they told me to buy the 41 for my MT5s and I had to rob the adapter off my old bike to put the Acura’s on my new bikes. The QM41 moves the caliper up and back (I think, I started drinking an hour ago, maybe it’s down and forward, or left then right?) to clear the frame tab.

This is why 180mm post mount forks are stupid, they should just be 203mm, Or 160mm so that you don’t get stuck with one of those dumb wedge shaped adapters, but if a Magura adapter works out back, they may work up front too. QM42 maybe?
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,563
2,721
AK
How is that an answer to my question? All I can say from Your answer, is that You either did not watch the video at all or did not watch the video from start to finish.
$3500 option to go with coated rotors, and yet $9000 more expensive to replace them.

My maths hurt.
 

troy

Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
871
460
More expensive to replace than standard rotors? Yes.
Performance close to 10x more expensive, carbon ceramic rotors. Yes.
1/3 of a price of carbon ceramic rotors. Yes.

You are the guy who buys a Fox 40 and whines that he cannot pour inside an engine oil from the thrift store.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,563
2,721
AK
1/3 of a price of carbon ceramic rotors. Yes.

You are the guy who buys a Fox 40 and whines that he cannot pour inside an engine oil from the thrift store.
I have no 40s.

9K isn't 1/3rd of 6K or 10K:


 

troy

Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
871
460
I have no 40s.

9K isn't 1/3rd of 6K or 10K:


their carbon ceramics are 32k, so 11k is roughly 1/3 of the price. If You cannot afford buying porsche, get something else. Easy.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,563
2,721
AK
their carbon ceramics are 32k, so 11k is roughly 1/3 of the price. If You cannot afford buying porsche, get something else. Easy.
So they are only saving $ relative to overpriced brakes. I mean, if it stopped way faster than a Z06 or ZL1, sure, but performance wise has to spend outrageous amounts of money to stay close to the top with their inferior rwd chassis and even then it's just until they get one-uped by the next manufacturer. Unless these tungsten carbide brakes become available aftermarket for way cheaper, like iron and even carbon ceramic rotors, I just don't see the point and how this makes sense. I'm sure Porsche will keep it proprietary for more than a few years too, because they love to nickle and dime on upgrades and parts. It seems for the money, you could easily equip a car with carbon ceramic brakes...good ones at that.

The upgrade for M-sport brakes on my BMW was only $500...but on the other hand they felt like wood.

Not like these things:

IMG_5736.JPG


Big beefy brakes are one of my favorite features on a car:

019e92e537b2d6783d33f7cae99e6ff8ccd785ba8a.jpg
012a35457ddf3387912a4be854c6e97fdb9ee2d1a8.jpg
01a598ced8748a40d987569653530af35a75fe7232.jpg
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
265
72
Aftermarket Wildwood rotors are cheaper and oftentimes better for performance cars than OME. Ironically the 911 is one of the best braking cars due to engine placement, but it needs to be for control in a corner.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,888
1,149
Seattle
Back on track: Anybody ridden the TRP DH-R yet? I don't have long term experience with them, but have ridden the Quadriem on a friend's bike a little and thought the lever feel was pretty decent, they just needed more power. The DH-R increases the hydraulic leverage significantly, so it seems promising on paper, maybe.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,527
234
Back on track: Anybody ridden the TRP DH-R yet? I don't have long term experience with them, but have ridden the Quadriem on a friend's bike a little and thought the lever feel was pretty decent, they just needed more power. The DH-R increases the hydraulic leverage significantly, so it seems promising on paper, maybe.
installing a pair of DH-R evo brakes tonight, will report back