He definitely doesn’t own Trickstuff and I saw a few German guys this summer riding that combo. I asked one guy in Chatel and he said they were even more powerful than stock Trickstuff.
Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion
- Thread starter Udi
- Start date
A few things:
Trickstuff is owned and run by Klaus Liedler.
Kornelius Karpfinger worked there and was involved in the design and development of the Direttissima. He is/runs Intend now.
Both are active members of the forum at www.mtb-news.de and especially Klaus is very helpful regarding all aspects of brakes. He usually tests every contemporary serious brake on the market.
On that forum there is a big Frankenbrake movement going on and Klaus and other Trickstuff employees are actively contributing data and help for those projects.
I'm too lazy to take a look now, but from memory the Trigura combo offers a greater hydraulic leverage at a smaller price.
If you're really curious shoot Kornelius an email, he will answer.
^thanks for the informative post, unfortunately I can’t wade through that forum as ich bin Ausländer und spreche nicht gut Deutsch.
I stand corrected, don’t know why I thought he was at the helm of TrickStuff also. The above answers clear this up perfectly. The guy strikes me as the quintessential German, no amount of machining or tinkering is too much, it’s amazing. Looks like an awesome setup not sure how a guy would get his hands on the levers though.
I stand corrected, don’t know why I thought he was at the helm of TrickStuff also. The above answers clear this up perfectly. The guy strikes me as the quintessential German, no amount of machining or tinkering is too much, it’s amazing. Looks like an awesome setup not sure how a guy would get his hands on the levers though.
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If it were purely about peak force / peak leverage, the M820 would be all the brake anyone ever needed.
I'd say the setup is a matter of budget-conscious experimentation. The true flagship product from that company is the DRT / Maxima lever assembly. Reasons to use a Piccola lever would be budget and/or leverage incompatibility with the intended slave caliper. A quick skim of spreadsheet numbers show that trying to use the MT5 / MT7 caliper with the DRT lever would likely net excessively long throw.
There are also however features of the TS caliper which are strong contributors to the functional consistency, throw length, and reliability / longevity of the brake. These factors are not replicated simultaneously in any alternative caliper currently available, at least which I'm aware of.
I'd say the setup is a matter of budget-conscious experimentation. The true flagship product from that company is the DRT / Maxima lever assembly. Reasons to use a Piccola lever would be budget and/or leverage incompatibility with the intended slave caliper. A quick skim of spreadsheet numbers show that trying to use the MT5 / MT7 caliper with the DRT lever would likely net excessively long throw.
There are also however features of the TS caliper which are strong contributors to the functional consistency, throw length, and reliability / longevity of the brake. These factors are not replicated simultaneously in any alternative caliper currently available, at least which I'm aware of.
If you have any specific questions I'm happy to translate and/or help. Levers can be ordered separately directly at Trickstuff.
Ich bin auch ein Ausländer - Austrian
Karpfinger btw went to university in Vienna.
And all that Udi said. The really cool feature of the DRT is the consistency. This brake always behaves in the same way. And that's a good way. I love the short throw and power and consistency. And the lever feel - every riding buddy of mine with not two hamfists wants to squeeze it at least once during a ride.
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I was running DRT levers with MT5 calipers for some time, and I can 100% confirm what @Udi says. Lever throw was longer than what I would have liked, so I had to run the levers quite far out or otherwise they would touch the grip before the brake bites. But what bothered me even more was the fact that the bite point was varying noticeably, especially for the rear brake, and this could not be cured with a proper bleed. I attributed this to inconsistent piston rollback, which becomes more noticeable due to the small MC diameter and high LR of DRT levers. I heard people say MT7 calipers are supposed to have less piston rollback (due to different piston seals and/or slightly different shaped seat for the seals), so the results with MT7 calipers might be better, but I am not sure about this.
After a couple of months I ended up getting DRT calipers, and the brake has been flawless ever since. Short lever throw, and the bite point is always at the exact same spot. I have been riding the brakes for four seasons now, and they still work like on the first day. Perfection here really comes from the system lever/caliper.
What are you guys' thoughts on running the Hayes Dominion A4 for street trials riding? That's Danny Mac style. We generally run MT5 or 7, but I'm getting fed up with the levers (they flex too much and now they're starting to leak). Don't like Shigura for the troublesome Shimano levers either. So I was thinking of experimenting with something else, but I don't know of anyone in the trials world runs the Hayes.
Looking for massive lock-up power, with still some modulation. They hardly get hot, so generally run soft organic pads for ultimate bite when cold. They do see quite a bit of force going through them, much higher peak forces than more regular MTBing. This is what happens to a lot of the current Shimano calipters:
So that has me a bit worried about their little set screws on the caliper. Seems like a potential weak point. Any armchair or real engineers want to give their thoughts about that?
Looking for massive lock-up power, with still some modulation. They hardly get hot, so generally run soft organic pads for ultimate bite when cold. They do see quite a bit of force going through them, much higher peak forces than more regular MTBing. This is what happens to a lot of the current Shimano calipters:
So that has me a bit worried about their little set screws on the caliper. Seems like a potential weak point. Any armchair or real engineers want to give their thoughts about that?
My thoughts on that failure: "Oof"
Real engineer who also has A4s. The set screw does introduce a stress concentration for sure, but that part of the mounting tab should be much more lightly loaded than the spot where that Shimano caliper failed. I don't think that particular concern should be an issue.
They fit the bill for quite a bit of power, with some modulation.
They fit the bill for quite a bit of power, with some modulation.
Cheers for that! The top of the front mounting hole of my rear MT5 caliper is actually slightly hollowed out by the mounting bolt's head. Maybe I tightened it too hard, or not hard enough, or used too small/thin a washer. Using a bigger and thicker washer now. Now that I think of it, I did have somethinig similar with the Hope Trialzone I used before, so the bolt contact area itself must see a lot of stress too. Maybe too much of a gamble on the Hayes, for what they cost.
The TRP DH-R levers coupled to my current MT5 calipers would be an interesting alternative, but I can't find just the lever assemblies anywhere. Anybody tried Cura levers with MT5 calipers? Or, dare I say it, a cheapass non-servowave Deore 2-finger lever (BL-M4100)?
The TRP DH-R levers coupled to my current MT5 calipers would be an interesting alternative, but I can't find just the lever assemblies anywhere. Anybody tried Cura levers with MT5 calipers? Or, dare I say it, a cheapass non-servowave Deore 2-finger lever (BL-M4100)?
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To all the frankenbrake lovers out there, don't forget this website:
brakes.ddzyne.nl
But be aware that it will not tell you if the reservoir capacity is too small for your favourite combo...
Mountain Bike Brake Force Visualisation
Compare the leverage ratio of mountain bike brakes
But be aware that it will not tell you if the reservoir capacity is too small for your favourite combo...
Bike-Components has Direttissima levers in stock right now. If anybody wants to build a Trimula DRT/Cura4 beast.
www.bike-components.de
Trickstuff Brake Lever for Direttissima
If the brake caliper of your Direttissima is worn out or damaged, you'll find the right replacement here. Compatibility: Direttissima disc brakes Models: black / left: Lever Colour: black Brake Lever Side: left Manufacturer Number: BCMADRTLS0000S bl
www.bike-components.de
And here's the complete Direttissima, don't know if they are shipping overseas.
www.komking.de
TRICKSTUFF DIRETTISSIMA Scheibenbremsen Set v + h
www.komking.de
No results for me, but looky looky! Maybe there is finally light at the end of the tunnel.And here's the complete Direttissima, don't know if they are shipping overseas.
TRICKSTUFF DIRETTISSIMA Scheibenbremsen Set v + h
Trickstuff Onlineshop | Slow Down Faster | Bremskraft made in Germany
Gone...No results for me, but looky looky! Maybe there is finally light at the end of the tunnel.
Trickstuff Onlineshop | Slow Down Faster | Bremskraft made in Germany
www.trickstuff-shop.de
And tbh its been like that all the time, you have to be quick. Retailers are getting small batches all the time, they are only gone pretty damn fast.
Trickstuff themselves have shut down their shop for 3 months to finally get the restructuring done after their uncontrolled growth during the last years. They are moving and hiring.
was it seriously 18 months?
I have a customer that has been waiting far to long for his set of piccola brakes, first it was 9 months which elapsed about the start of Covid really starting to reek havoc, then about 3-5 months later I sent another email to get an update. Answer, that will be about 50 more weeks, then about 1/3 of the way into that I get an email saying they are so backed up with orders they are shutting down to restructure. I called my customer to tell him the bad news and he says “well maybe I should order another pair in case I like them?” He is a great dude very patient, and has a great perspective on first world problems.
Hi all, I'm new on here, though I've been a quiet lurker on this thread for some time.
Has anyone tried using (or got any theories on the viability of using) M4100 levers or T8000 trekking levers with a Shimano 4 pot or Magura MT5 caliper? Neither of these levers have servowave, so might solve some problems. But, they both have quite long lever blades so I guess the throw may end up quite deep?
Has anyone tried using (or got any theories on the viability of using) M4100 levers or T8000 trekking levers with a Shimano 4 pot or Magura MT5 caliper? Neither of these levers have servowave, so might solve some problems. But, they both have quite long lever blades so I guess the throw may end up quite deep?
I just ordered M4100 levers to try out on my streettrials bike, coupled to my old MT5 calipers. Choose the 4100 as opposed to the T8000, because of slightly shorter levers. Should be here next week, so can let you know then.
(on a sidenote, didn't go for the Dominion A4 in the end, spoke to another trials rider who ran them, and his calipers started to leak badly past the pistons. Guess they're not really up to the abuse of constant forward/backword rocking and locked wheel slamming)
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Anyone else had issues with Cura lever pivots wearing quickly - this is after 12months of use:
I was hoping it was the bushing that was worn but it's the lever.
I was hoping it was the bushing that was worn but it's the lever.
That sucks. Yeah, not on Formula, but I've had the exact same with Hope Race levers which use the same construction. They even use brass bushings, so you'd think they would go before the lever itself. Not always the case apparently.
Trickstuff on pause.
www.pinkbike.com
Interview: Trickstuff Announces 3 Month Sales Pause Following Huge Growth - Pinkbike
The German boutique brake brand will be re-opening for orders in February.
I did not realize they were quite so expensive. 1100€ ... or $1700 CAD!Trickstuff on pause.
Interview: Trickstuff Announces 3 Month Sales Pause Following Huge Growth - Pinkbike
The German boutique brake brand will be re-opening for orders in February.
The local distro here sorted it out quick smart and hadn't seen anyone else have this issue. We'll see in another 12months I guess! Maybe my levers sat in the annodising etching bath a bit long and were oversize to begin with...
Was tempted to get a set of the levers this bloke is making:
rgbikecomponents • Instagram photos and videos
489 Followers, 45 Following, 130 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from @rgbikecomponents
www.instagram.com
Ok, that was a fail. Got them in, but I can't move them far enough inboard to use with one finger. They're too long, or my handlebar's too short. Will keep using the original MT5 levers for a bit longer then, until they explode. Or go for the stubby servo waves after all.
By the way, bad sign that the fluid in my magura lever is extremely dirty grey/black, or does that happen all the time?
It's normal on brakes with cast and/or non-anodized sliding interfaces anywhere in the brake. Not ideal and eventually the wear particles accelerate wear elsewhere. However it's not a big deal either, probably a good reason to give them a flush with fresh fluid - and if you're pedantic - ride them for a few weeks and re-flush to clean out the rest.
I've had the same issue with other Formula brakes, it also happens at the main lever pivot as often there is no bushing and the lever runs directly on the pivot. Not much you can do except replace the worn part/s, which as you point out, is usually the lever blade itself. If doing so I'd also replace the cam bushing, as its old wear pattern will cause faster wear on the new blade.
I was thinking up something extra deluxe Frankenbrakish: how about if you use PDMS silicone oil as brake fluid? That way, you should be able to mix and match DOT and mineral oil brake components. It's used in hydraulic systems and you can get it in viscosities down to 5 cst @ 25°C, so that's like water. Boiling point is hard to find, but should be at least upwards of 150°C, some sources mention 250. It is a bit more expensive though, but imagine the Frankenbrake possibilities! Has anyone here actually done this?
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That's a pain. I've ordered some as well, should be here in a few days. I'll report back on here when I've done a few rides on them. I've got quite wide handlebars so hopefully won't have the same issue that you did.
I've fitted my m4100 levers, fitted some fresh Galfer pads and given them a bleed through with some plutoline hpx fluid. I have an xt 4 pot front caliper (8120?) and a deore 4 pot rear caliper.
They bled really easily and after bedding the pads in riding up and down the street the brakes feel really nice. I'll give them a proper test in the woods soon, but I'm so happy with the feel of them so far I thought I'd update you.
The levers are a bit longer than the servowave alternatives, but for me with large-ish hands they fit great - the ergonomics are better than servo wave levers which put a I-spec shifter too close to my thumb. The lever feel is firm, with good modulation and there's less lever throw than I expected (maybe less than on my mt5, but with more pad clearance, is that even possible??!?) The power builds smoothly too and I can't wait to take them out for a proper ride.
They bled really easily and after bedding the pads in riding up and down the street the brakes feel really nice. I'll give them a proper test in the woods soon, but I'm so happy with the feel of them so far I thought I'd update you.
The levers are a bit longer than the servowave alternatives, but for me with large-ish hands they fit great - the ergonomics are better than servo wave levers which put a I-spec shifter too close to my thumb. The lever feel is firm, with good modulation and there's less lever throw than I expected (maybe less than on my mt5, but with more pad clearance, is that even possible??!?) The power builds smoothly too and I can't wait to take them out for a proper ride.
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Idk why but I seem to be constantly glazing pads. Organic and sintered. Running Hayes A2s with formula new style discs, 220 front 203 rear.
So I put on some fresh organics and bedded them in properly. They felt good all day. At the end I sessioned some jumps, so just small bits of heavy braking. All felt good, bike back in the shed, then today it's as if I never bedded them. Third time this has happened.
I checked the calipers, 100% no leaks. Pads look a little glazed but seem to start working after doing a bed in run again and sanding the discs a bit. I did have a leaky caliper on my curas but I deep cleaned the disc before putting on the hayes months ago
Could my discs be contaminated or just shit? Never had this issue before tbh, I only glazed pads with park squidding and mostly just wear them down
So I put on some fresh organics and bedded them in properly. They felt good all day. At the end I sessioned some jumps, so just small bits of heavy braking. All felt good, bike back in the shed, then today it's as if I never bedded them. Third time this has happened.
I checked the calipers, 100% no leaks. Pads look a little glazed but seem to start working after doing a bed in run again and sanding the discs a bit. I did have a leaky caliper on my curas but I deep cleaned the disc before putting on the hayes months ago
Could my discs be contaminated or just shit? Never had this issue before tbh, I only glazed pads with park squidding and mostly just wear them down
I figured I'll throw this hear, instead of a new thread. A buddy of mine broke the lever blade on the new model SLX brakes. With parts availability being almost nothing. I found the M8000 lever blade will fit in the current generation and work fine. When bleeding the brake one of the piston seals blew. So I personally won't suggest these lol. I put an old Saint caliper on to get him riding again.
Updated: Cascade Components is Developing a Brake Caliper with SRAM Internals - Pinkbike
The prototype caliper body utilizes some existing SRAM parts in order to be more easily serviceable.
How are people liking MT5s? Is the lever ergos OK?
That's an interesting way to bring out a new product. But I thought the lever end was more the issue than the caliper end?Updated: Cascade Components is Developing a Brake Caliper with SRAM Internals - Pinkbike
The prototype caliper body utilizes some existing SRAM parts in order to be more easily serviceable.
View attachment 156061
*shrug* PB makes it sound like an inadvertent reveal given that the source IG post has been pulled
If you have larger hands they can be setup for 1 finger braking. Thankfully I have reasonably big mittens. I can't fathom how anyone with smaller hands could get on with the levers however. It definitely took me a few rides to position the levers in a sweet spot for one finger braking.
Otherwise I've been pretty impressed with them compared to the Shimano's I've had. Loads of power and haven't leaked at either the lever or calipers yet....
Have medium sized hands, and never had a problem with the ergonomics of my MT5s. I mounted them inboard on my shifter/dropper and that put my index finger right in the "hook" of the lever. They feel funky if you're used to Shimano levers, but only for a ride or two, then you get used to it.