I recall seeing them on Vital's rumors thread a while back. I think at the time someone asked Cascade about it, and they indicated that they were basically replacement calipers for CODES. I could be remembering wrong though.
Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion
- Thread starter Udi
- Start date
Damnit yeah, made in the PNW but by Cascade
That is SRAM's answer to a reliable 4 piston caliper... if they use 8 pistons, then 4 should work at any given time.
I'm still on Hayes Dominion A2 on the DH bike and happy out with them, way better than curas I had last. they roast pads a bit quick though.
I think the new formula discs are a bit weird - seem howlier than the old drilled style on the wet and they might just be a bit thin for uplift days on a modern bike.
Got some galfer wave discs, nicely priced at under 40 euro for 223/203 and 2mm thick discs. can't wait to try them after the good stuff I heard about thicc rotors
update- the 223 rotor and adapter arrived so I put them on. rotor is a good bit stiffer than the formula 220. the galfer adapter I got is a +20 but the rotor hits my dominion A2 caliper. I ended up just putting some washers under a ride alpha +17 adapter and seems to have done the job. fork is a 2018ish fox 40. not sure if dominion A4s will have the same problem.
I think the new formula discs are a bit weird - seem howlier than the old drilled style on the wet and they might just be a bit thin for uplift days on a modern bike.
Got some galfer wave discs, nicely priced at under 40 euro for 223/203 and 2mm thick discs. can't wait to try them after the good stuff I heard about thicc rotors
update- the 223 rotor and adapter arrived so I put them on. rotor is a good bit stiffer than the formula 220. the galfer adapter I got is a +20 but the rotor hits my dominion A2 caliper. I ended up just putting some washers under a ride alpha +17 adapter and seems to have done the job. fork is a 2018ish fox 40. not sure if dominion A4s will have the same problem.
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New rotors from the two big players.
Trying to get my head around the 7% more power claim from SRAM on the thicker rotors. It it just the brake track surface area increase?
how much better was DUB over any other 30mm standard?
I'm sure on some power meter somewhere, once, they measured 7% increase in something...but I cannot see how an increase in thickness would add power unless the new rotor has a different friction coeffecient with new/other pads or whatever.
Yeah, especially that for a relatively minor increase in diameter you get a big increase in circumference/braking area. Not that you wouldn’t want thicker rotors, but the “well these are good enough now that they are thicker” seems like BS to me.
Don't be so scientific, it has magic paint man!
%7 of not much is probably hard to measure
Those look tasty.
It comes with DOT fluid, if you want to use mineral oil you must change the caliper's seals according to their site. And they also claim their mineral oil boils at 420 degrees Celsius.
Got some Hayes Dominion A4 brakes to try out on my trials bike. Replacing MT5s, which still worked alright, but always had black fluid in the master cylinders when bleeding them. Had a feeling it was a matter of time before they would start to leak.
First impression is that Hayes' quality control isn't great. One lever clamp is not perfectly round, mainly due to thick paint, and doesn't fit my handlebar. Informed the shop, but couldn't really be arsed to send them back for this. So worked at it with a knife and sanded it down, fits much better now. Lever action is very smooth. Rear lever is super tight with a short throw. Front lever is pretty tight as well, but throw a bit longer. Might try a bleed again. Hoses are much sturdier than Magura's. Hopefully be able to ride some tomorrow, if it's dry. Will report back on powerrrrr.
Edit: on second inspection, the tiny allen bolt that handles the bitepoint adjustment on one lever was already stripped before I even put my allen key in it. The bolts that go through the lever and ball bearing, with tiny allen heads, are also overtightened from the factory; the allen head looks quite abused, and trying to turn them will strip the heads. Also the kingpin pad bolt on one caliper was tightened down too hard, had to get my heat gun out to get it to budge, or I would have stripped the head. Pretty crappy, especially for what they cost.
First impression is that Hayes' quality control isn't great. One lever clamp is not perfectly round, mainly due to thick paint, and doesn't fit my handlebar. Informed the shop, but couldn't really be arsed to send them back for this. So worked at it with a knife and sanded it down, fits much better now. Lever action is very smooth. Rear lever is super tight with a short throw. Front lever is pretty tight as well, but throw a bit longer. Might try a bleed again. Hoses are much sturdier than Magura's. Hopefully be able to ride some tomorrow, if it's dry. Will report back on powerrrrr.
Edit: on second inspection, the tiny allen bolt that handles the bitepoint adjustment on one lever was already stripped before I even put my allen key in it. The bolts that go through the lever and ball bearing, with tiny allen heads, are also overtightened from the factory; the allen head looks quite abused, and trying to turn them will strip the heads. Also the kingpin pad bolt on one caliper was tightened down too hard, had to get my heat gun out to get it to budge, or I would have stripped the head. Pretty crappy, especially for what they cost.
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Wow, I just got them. And burned them in at the bike park. I had no quality issues. And think they're a really great brake.
Good to hear you're happy with them. Did manage to get the lever blades out, but that one bite point screw is definitely screwed, unfortunately. Hope Hayes or the shop can just send me a replacement for that. Can live with a sanded down lever clamp, but not what you'd expect given the premium price. Still thinking of giving them a shot, hoping the function at least will be great.
I've never been excited about brakes before. Smooth lever action and no hard squeeze to even stop at the park. Hands never hurt.
Well, can't complain about Hayes' service. They're sending me a new lever! Faith restored 
When it's here I'll report back on how they compare on my trials bike to Magura MT5 and Hope Tech3 V4 (running these back to back with the same pad compound).
When it's here I'll report back on how they compare on my trials bike to Magura MT5 and Hope Tech3 V4 (running these back to back with the same pad compound).
And since this is the brake power database thread as well, how about these measurements I just took: 65 mm middle of finger to lever pivot, 11 mm from pivot to actuation cam. 9 mm master cylinder and 2 x 17 mm pistons. Filled them in in the spreadsheet and the visualation section (brakes.ddzyne.nl), would this make the Dominion the most powerful brake to date? Also one of the heaviest ones btw.
@Boozzz
I do think at this point that visualisation website is misrepresenting the significant inaccuracies (and accuracies?!) in the spreadsheet - while the disclaimer "kinda" covers it, no one's gonna read that, everyone's just going to look at the pretty bars - which to me currently reads mostly as: heavier = better?
The Magura MT5/7 should be closer to the top in total leverage (not sure why it's 34.xx? it's 38.58 in the spreadsheet), and the 9mm MC measurement for the Dominion A4 seems questionable to me. Total leverage depends heavily on accurate MC bore measurement, this needs to be very carefully measured or be from a verified source (i.e. direct from manufacturer, not in an MTB news article).
I do get the drift you're trying to be as honest and informative as possible on the site, but a quick reminder that you're not exempt from the request to post vernier photos of all measurements prior to updating the spreadsheet.
I do think at this point that visualisation website is misrepresenting the significant inaccuracies (and accuracies?!) in the spreadsheet - while the disclaimer "kinda" covers it, no one's gonna read that, everyone's just going to look at the pretty bars - which to me currently reads mostly as: heavier = better?
The Magura MT5/7 should be closer to the top in total leverage (not sure why it's 34.xx? it's 38.58 in the spreadsheet), and the 9mm MC measurement for the Dominion A4 seems questionable to me. Total leverage depends heavily on accurate MC bore measurement, this needs to be very carefully measured or be from a verified source (i.e. direct from manufacturer, not in an MTB news article).
I do get the drift you're trying to be as honest and informative as possible on the site, but a quick reminder that you're not exempt from the request to post vernier photos of all measurements prior to updating the spreadsheet.
Fair points. The Magura lever seems pretty regular, but a bit hard to measure precisely the distance between cam and pivot, due to the way it's shaped. Troy must have measured the cam distance to be 12.5 mm, which might very well be correct on closer look. Would have to take off the lever to be 100% sure, but maybe @troy did this?
A guy on the German forums measured the MC of the Hayes to be 9.15 mm. I can't verify that at the moment, as I've sent my Hayes brakes back to the shop due to numerous issues. Not only the lever quality control things (Hayes never sent out the promised lever), but also pad clearance between the two calipers being extremely uneven (and hence very uneven lever throw), even after performing every trick in the book to get them to play along. Very disappointed.
Hope has new brakes on the go. Vital shared some pictures at the end of august
Prototype Hope V4 Brake Levers - Adam Brayton's Nukeproof Dissent with Prototype Hope Brakes - Mountain Biking Pictures (vitalmtb.com)
and more can be seen on Szymon Godziek's bike check 3:27 in
double discs rotors could be an interesting move
levers:
Let's hope (ha!) these are more powerful than the other models from the same brand.
Prototype Hope V4 Brake Levers - Adam Brayton's Nukeproof Dissent with Prototype Hope Brakes - Mountain Biking Pictures (vitalmtb.com)
and more can be seen on Szymon Godziek's bike check 3:27 in
double discs rotors could be an interesting move
levers:
Let's hope (ha!) these are more powerful than the other models from the same brand.
Hope had had vented rotors in their catalog since a long time ago.
HOPE Brake Disc V4 vented 203 mm color, 115,00 €
Internal vented brake disc HOPE V4 vented, for downhill bikes that require maximum braking power, fits only for HOPE Tech 3 V4 brake.
Thanks @slimshady!
They have been around for quite a few years and doesn't seem to be widely used. Any idea why? Beside being heavy and expensive? Is the performance not there somehow?
They have been around for quite a few years and doesn't seem to be widely used. Any idea why? Beside being heavy and expensive? Is the performance not there somehow?
Hope were limiting the vented rotors to 203mm for a long time.
I think when you get up to 220-223mm, the thicker 2.3 solid still gives you more thermal capability, not only do you get the effect of the increased mass, but you get the much greater area, as small increases in circumference=big increase in surface. I don't think there's any reason to go with the double-surface, it's not going to be an increase in thermal capability, potentially a decrease in longevity and a slight decrease in weight, but when you are going for max braking, you aren't really that concerned about weight.
Hope has made bigger rotors, but they've all been solid. It's been known that Hopes are a little down on power, so I think most people just bypassed those rotors, there was no real advantage to running them...but they look cool.
They were not even on the radar for me. I'm going to eek out a little more life out of my Magura 2.0 220 storm rotor, then move to the TRP 2.3.
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I have to admit, Hope makes beautifully machined parts.
My new TRP brakes use the 2.3 rotors. we rode a steeeeeep trail a few weeks ago, zero fade or inconsistency and dead quiet after a couple miles of dragging.
My new TRP brakes use the 2.3 rotors. we rode a steeeeeep trail a few weeks ago, zero fade or inconsistency and dead quiet after a couple miles of dragging.
And now they're about to open for plank sliding operations...
Interesting stuff, I saw 9.15mm too, probably same source. Not having a dig at your beautiful website but to be honest it detracts from the original intention of the spreadsheet (creating combination brakes) and instead focuses on ordering the brakes in a method which amplifies the largest inaccuracy in our calculations - the mechanical leverage - thus total leverage is likely very wrong for many brakes in the list. We are only calculating 1 lever arm, but this leverage is applied through an angle to the MC piston which drastically changes the final mechanical leverage (at least to my understanding). On some brakes this means the leverage we calculate becomes lower as the lever moves, for others it can become significantly higher (particularly for SRAM/avid and trickstuff with intentionally close-to-bar main pivots). It wouldn't be hard to correct this (especially for people like flo / troy / happymtbfr / hab) but I'm happy with my brakes and lazy. If someone wants to get involved with this I'll help incorporate the changes. Ultimately though, the issue with DH brakes (at least since the M820) was never peak force.
Yours is the 2nd report of quality control issues in this thread with the Dominion A4.
I rode them recently and thought they felt great (on all fronts - light lever action, good punchy stopping), but I guessed early on that the build quality wouldn't compete with some others. They're also damn heavy. I own the previous gen of Hayes brake (Prime Pro) and it's a cast alloy monstrosity, I'm running the calipers with some nicer Formula levers. It'd be cool if they made a more expensive version with better materials and lower weight one day, there would definitely be a market.
On the other hand, at least the situation has improved. The two big S brands are getting crushed by the small guys who are slowly fixing the issues at various price points.
Shimano already make these its just that there's a piece of aluminum between them lol
I put a new Formula 220 disc and friend-made adapter on my bike yesterday. After one 1000m lap she got some good color.
Fwiw, the Formula 220 rotors are my current favorites for the big discs. The Hayes Dominion A4 with Hayes or a 220 Formula disc is working great for me.
Fwiw, the Formula 220 rotors are my current favorites for the big discs. The Hayes Dominion A4 with Hayes or a 220 Formula disc is working great for me.
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Thanks. It was a spare saddle for one of Nino’s Worlds bikes.Nice touch with the Swiss flag under the saddle
Are the pads on the a4 not tall enough for the braking surface of the discs or are those washers below the caliper a little too thick?
I ask because of the untouched strip at the base of the braking surface on the rotors
@buckoW
Probably, I was in a hurry to do some runs and didn’t too look closely. I’ll have a look.
Bigger concern is if the pads are overhanging the top of the rotor. When they wear sufficiently they'll touch and then you'll have no brakes 
I've seen that happen before with a guy using 203 mounts on a 200mm rotor. Didn't expect it to be so much of an issue but holy shit it cut braking power heaps once the uncut pad material touched.Bigger concern is if the pads are overhanging the top of the rotor. When they wear sufficiently they'll touch and then you'll have no brakes
It could work, one of the things that people often fail to realize is that just because both companies make a 20 or 23mm adapter, it doesn't necessarily place the caliper in the same position on the rotor in terms of degrees, like say centered at 45 degrees (radial). Then when you use a different caliper than intended, which has different bolt mounting position relative to the pistons, it can go wacky...or work out. It ends up being different vertically, maybe falling short, maybe ending up too large.
Awesome, now we have to watch out for vertically challenged calipers...