Also, Klaus Liedler, Trickstuff Boss, recently stated on a German forum that we shouldn't make such a fuzz about the bedding procedure and just ride as long as it's not a 500 m vertical drop descent.
Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion
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Also, Klaus Liedler, Trickstuff Boss, recently stated on a German forum that we shouldn't make such a fuzz about the bedding procedure and just ride as long as it's not a 500 m vertical drop descent.
interesting @Flo33 !
in the manual for the Direttissima it says:
"In order to achieve an optimum braking effect of the new coverings, they must cautiously with 20 brake applications from 30 kph km / h slowed to 10 km / h! "
in the manual for their brake pads (which I use on one of my bike) it says:
"Bed new brake pads in with 20 brake actions from 30 km/h to 5 km/h. Do not bring the pads and rotor into contact with oil or grease (including skin grease!). Tip: Depending on the topography and conditions of use, it can take up to 1,000 metres of altitude to get new pads working properly."
Maybe just riding makes sense: while riding you will apply the brakes several times and rarely brake to a standstill.
I remember when I tried to bed in my Magura trail brakes. They would not bed in even after 50 cycles. I took my bike to the local ski resort and squeezed the brake all the way down the steepest slope. Even if the slope was barely 100m of elevation the brake was smoking before the end but still not biting!
I realized afterwards that the pads were contaminated...
in the manual for the Direttissima it says:
"In order to achieve an optimum braking effect of the new coverings, they must cautiously with 20 brake applications from 30 kph km / h slowed to 10 km / h! "
in the manual for their brake pads (which I use on one of my bike) it says:
"Bed new brake pads in with 20 brake actions from 30 km/h to 5 km/h. Do not bring the pads and rotor into contact with oil or grease (including skin grease!). Tip: Depending on the topography and conditions of use, it can take up to 1,000 metres of altitude to get new pads working properly."
Maybe just riding makes sense: while riding you will apply the brakes several times and rarely brake to a standstill.
I remember when I tried to bed in my Magura trail brakes. They would not bed in even after 50 cycles. I took my bike to the local ski resort and squeezed the brake all the way down the steepest slope. Even if the slope was barely 100m of elevation the brake was smoking before the end but still not biting!
I realized afterwards that the pads were contaminated...
This has probably more to do with tests performed in a lab, with controlled conditions than real life riding.
Yeah, I listened to that too. I wonder if some of that is Germans being Germans.
I just put pads in and go for a ride.
There was a lot of marketing BS on that podcast. I had to turn it off. Did he ask Magura about the wood screws?
There was a lot of marketing BS on that podcast. I had to turn it off. Did he ask Magura about the wood screws?
I roll out of my driveway, have a 50ish ft descent, 0.2 miles to the trailhead and then straight into a 1600ft descent.
Also, Klaus Liedler, Trickstuff Boss, recently stated on a German forum that we shouldn't make such a fuzz about the bedding procedure and just ride as long as it's not a 500 m vertical drop descent.
1600ft ~ 487m, so I'm good!
After listening to the podcast, I did put my MT7s back on to see how they compare after running Codes w/ MTX Gold pads for a year. Got them all mounted, then discovered the pads on the MT7s got contaminated somehow sitting in the drawer, and I only had 1 spare set of pads... so they came right back off. Going back to back, the MT7s with HC3 lever seem to have a firmer lever resistance. Given what I've heard recently about the ideal brake setup to minimize arm pump being light pull, starting as far out as possible and only having a minimal amount of throw, I'm thinking they're probably going to feel less comfortable than the Codes once I get new pads.
The Dominion A4s really have my interest now - especially since it looks like they've got a "stealth" version that's not that hideous metallic poop brown.
The Dominion A4s really have my interest now - especially since it looks like they've got a "stealth" version that's not that hideous metallic poop brown.
The Dominion A4s have the lightest lever action of any brake I've tried including the Trickstuffs. It really feels like you're pulling a normal lever that is full of air instead of fluid. The Trickstuffs have noticeably less throw to bite point though.
I just serviced my rear Hope V4 (new master cylinder seals, new caliper pistons and seals, full bleed blah blah) and have to admit it was well overdue. I haven't touched them aside from pads and bleeds since 2017 and they've been on 4 bikes now and done a fuckton of vert and racing all over the world in every condition.
Hopefully good for another 5 years now
I didn't listen but did they mention why they have around 100 different levers?
Basically different levers for different preferences. They did admit that the "2 finger lever" was a misleading name and that it was meant to be used with 1 finger, but that inexperienced people could fit 2 fingers on it.
They did explain how Danny's and Loic's preferences and riding styles required very different levers (Danny doing a lot of trials stuff where he wanted a quick, massive bite, Loic wanting the lever much further from the bar at the start to maximize leverage).
I really like less throw and good bite. To modulate the XT 4 pots I have been running organic pads with great results. I can get away with organic due to shorter vertical runs. No squeal in the wet is nice. Used to run 1 organic and 1 semi metallic. Great combo but wears unevenly. Will be riding Scotland during Spring and Summer and might try going halvies again
Kind of like “XCM”
I saw that and was wondering if the back of the SRAM clamp that holds their matchmaker would line up with the dominion bolt centres.
I don't, but if you want to measure the bolt center distance on the Magura ones I can check the Hayes.
Hey All,
New here, very informative and fun thread. I haven't read all 61 pages but has anybody tried matching Hope Tech3 master to a Hayes Dominion A4 caliper? I came from Hopes wanting a bit more power, but can't say I'm super stoked with the Hayes masters and certainly not with the adapters for shifter and dropper (which I had to McGyver from a SRAM matchmaker and some random Wolftooth hardware, not ideal and both the shifter and dropper are hanging way far down..).
Anyway, going by the mix and match spreadsheet I'd gain some hydraulic leverage so that equals more power, yes? Any other/negative side effects that I'm missing or overlooking?
New here, very informative and fun thread. I haven't read all 61 pages but has anybody tried matching Hope Tech3 master to a Hayes Dominion A4 caliper? I came from Hopes wanting a bit more power, but can't say I'm super stoked with the Hayes masters and certainly not with the adapters for shifter and dropper (which I had to McGyver from a SRAM matchmaker and some random Wolftooth hardware, not ideal and both the shifter and dropper are hanging way far down..).
Anyway, going by the mix and match spreadsheet I'd gain some hydraulic leverage so that equals more power, yes? Any other/negative side effects that I'm missing or overlooking?
Why not big-rotor the Hopes? Hope is about to release a significantly more powerful lever, so there is that and you may want to wait a bit, but the prevalence of 220mm and larger rotors goes a long ways to fixing a lot of shit, from power to heating issues.
Will work no problem, A4 caliper has the same slave piston area as the Hope V4. But you would only lose power going to the Tech3 lever. Als Jm_ says, maybe wait for the Tech4. Either way, you will gain a lot in build and finishing quality
BCD on the Hayes appears to be 28mm.
Has anyone with the Hayes noticed the pad rattle? My buddy's brake pads are fairly loose in the calipers and the bike makes a rattle or knock sound over rough terrain when the brakes aren't engaged.
Has anyone with the Hayes noticed the pad rattle? My buddy's brake pads are fairly loose in the calipers and the bike makes a rattle or knock sound over rough terrain when the brakes aren't engaged.
Wonder how slave rollback compares on the A4 caliper to the V4, presumably the A4 has less rollback?Will work no problem, A4 caliper has the same slave piston area as the Hope V4. But you would only lose power going to the Tech3 lever. Als Jm_ says, maybe wait for the Tech4. Either way, you will gain a lot in build and finishing quality
Could be an interesting option to improve throw with the Tech4 lever, if it does actually have increased leverage. Assuming one is happy with Hayes "school project baked in a clay oven" quality and finish of course.
No, since total leverage is a function of both mechanical and hydraulic leverage (also added a note about the inaccuracy of mech leverage calcs to post #1). Having ridden both brakes I agree with Boozzz that you'll have reduced peak force with the combination you suggest.
From the short time I had them, I can only conclude the roll back is quite variable on the Hayes. One had almost zero roll back and was impossible to setup, but let's suppose the other one had the roll back that was intended. This was quite similar to Hope V4s, definitely more than Magura MT5/7. Should have taken some proper measurements for the sake of science.
I've replaced the seals in the rear V4 caliper and put it back on the trials bike. So far so good. I do like them better than the Magura's, feels like at my peak squeezing force (something I hardly ever do with normal/DH mtb'ing, but constantly in trials), they feel more solid.
Tech4 seems to use a massively long lever. Wonder if they've upped the hydraulic leverage as well.
Agree. The lever looks long as hell. Wonder what the throw is gonna be like
Yup, 28mm spacing on the bolts.
The stock Hayes pads rattled a little, but the Galfer Pros that I've been using are a lot quieter. And work better.
The cosmetic finish on the A4s is definitely crude, but I'm still extremely happy with the actual performance. I've tried most stuff short of Trickstuff, and they're my favorite thing going at the moment.
I wondered how much a set of Piccola currently costs. Lots.
Trickstuff not taking orders until March 1st and R2-Bike quoting 12-18months wait to get a set...
edit:
NSFW, interesting first couple of options if you click the shopping link after searching for Trickstuff Piccola on the Googler.
Trickstuff not taking orders until March 1st and R2-Bike quoting 12-18months wait to get a set...
edit:
NSFW, interesting first couple of options if you click the shopping link after searching for Trickstuff Piccola on the Googler.
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i checked their site yesterday out of curiosity. and saw they don't plan to be back online until march. i still laugh that they thought an ERP system update would take two weeks
Buddy of mine bought a DRT and PCL in the timespan from last August to January this year. R2 and bike24. R2 took 4 months instead of the stated 12-18. Bike24 had a few and continue to randomly, you just have to be quick.
didn't TS shut down production during the ERP changeover?
Hmm, not sure about that. I thought they only shut down their own online shop.
Hi,
I am relatively new here and haven't had time to read the whole thread. If this has been answered before I apologize for bringing it up again.
So I have decided that I will never buy another Shimano brake again. I have had way too many failures with them especially their levers. That wouldn't be a problem usually but I can't buy spares for those parts which makes me pretty irritated.
I have decided that I will be buying from Formula from now on since a couple of my buddies have had no problem with them and they actually sell spares for their brakes.
Unfortunately I recently bought a Shimano XT BR-M8020 caliper from them with an XT BL-M8000 lever. The caliper itself has no issues but the levers which I use both front and rear have been leaking.
I was wondering if I could use a Formula Cura lever with either Shimano or Formula mineral oil so that I don't have to buy another Shimano lever again.
I have not found this blend in the spreadsheet and was wondering if anyone had done this before.
Thanks in advance.
I am relatively new here and haven't had time to read the whole thread. If this has been answered before I apologize for bringing it up again.
So I have decided that I will never buy another Shimano brake again. I have had way too many failures with them especially their levers. That wouldn't be a problem usually but I can't buy spares for those parts which makes me pretty irritated.
I have decided that I will be buying from Formula from now on since a couple of my buddies have had no problem with them and they actually sell spares for their brakes.
Unfortunately I recently bought a Shimano XT BR-M8020 caliper from them with an XT BL-M8000 lever. The caliper itself has no issues but the levers which I use both front and rear have been leaking.
I was wondering if I could use a Formula Cura lever with either Shimano or Formula mineral oil so that I don't have to buy another Shimano lever again.
I have not found this blend in the spreadsheet and was wondering if anyone had done this before.
Thanks in advance.
Yes. But don't expect power, Shimano 4 pot slave piston area is smaller than even a Cura 2, and the Cura lever has less mechanical leverage than a Shimano servo wave lever, plus a bigger MC. So total leverage ratio will be even worse than a Hope X2, which is crap.
Nonsense, as a soon-to-be-potential-owner from the US I'm most up to date with TS's global supply chain and my internet research concludes the wait time is a minimum of 36 months. You can count me a soon-to-not-be-potential-owner if they keep up this charade.
This is a wise choice!
Haha, on a serious note, I ran M810 Saints for years. They were good but suffered the usual wandering bite point shenanigans.
Switched over to Formula and I haven't looked back. I was reminded of this yesterday. I took the DH rig out which is adorned with some OEM T1Ss. I've upgraded the pistons/seals to the ECT technology, and sized up rotors on both ends (223 front; 203 rear) and I was amazed at how damn powerful and reliable they were. No drag (better piston retraction I believe) and nice lever feel.
I would assume you're talking about the Curas, which I have no experience with, but I did want to say Formula as a company and manufacturer is a very viable option, at least from my experience.
Crazy thing is that some old low-end forumulas that came on my specialized were the exact same wandering-bite-point, before I encountered the same thing on shimano brakes. I was convinced these formulas were some kind of semi-closed system that could only reset after a good few lever-releases, but quick actuation made them pump up a lot in the exact same way that shimano does under heavy braking.
This is so weird, and totally counter to my experience. My T1Ss were certainly consistent, but never powerful. They consistently heated up, consistently squeeled, and consistently rubbed rotors. They had super consistent lever feel until they overheated. I wanted to use them on my trail bike (exceptional trail brakes, IMO) but I swapped mine for MT5s and those were more powerful and fade free on the same trails. A pad upgrade helped even more. Same rotors too.
I'm now all in on magura. Their levers are shit but the brakes work and I've never been left wanting for power on the DH bike with metal pads. The trail bike now has FABIOS and they are really easy to modulate.
curas dumbass