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Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,720
Australia
Yeah I'd still go the A4s and maybe play with rotor sizing or something. I got V4s for my Mega and put E4s on my Smuggler and wish I'd just gone two sets of V4s. Down-speccing brakes was daft.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,063
Yeah I'd still go the A4s and maybe play with rotor sizing or something. I got V4s for my Mega and put E4s on my Smuggler and wish I'd just gone two sets of V4s. Down-speccing brakes was daft.
10 MTB's in our house, four bigger bikes have Codes, other six have Guides/G2's. I just buy the sintered pads in bags of 20.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Yeah I'd still go the A4s and maybe play with rotor sizing or something. I got V4s for my Mega and put E4s on my Smuggler and wish I'd just gone two sets of V4s. Down-speccing brakes was daft.
This is the way. Go with smaller rotors if you want less power for some reason.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,057
1,298
Styria
1. I could I just order a set from r2 bike and wait. They’re listed for a relatively reasonable price (I said relatively). I saw a post earlier suggesting they don’t necessarily take the full 12-18 months to show up. Does anyone have a lead on a set that might be available sooner? Or any tips for finding a set? I’d be fine with black or silver and would also be happy to wait if I have to.
You can do as you describe, buy and wait. There are numerous reports on the largest German mtb forum of people who got theirs within 3-5 months. A buddy of mine received his set in a comparable time span last year. The other possibility is scan the other big German online retailers on a daily basis, esp. bike24.com gets a bunch from time to time but those are always gone within minutes.
Good luck hunting!
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
I've got a few days on the Tech 4 V4. Early thoughts:

-They're a lot more powerful than the Tech 3, but still a bit off the most powerful options out there. At this point I'd say they feel pretty close to Code RSCs.
-Lever throw is on the long side. I haven't measured yet but it's definitely a bit longer than Code RSCs or Saints (with the contact point adjuster all the way in on all of them). Probably close to Dominion A4s.
-The bite point isn't all that firm. Whether that feels like a good thing (more modulation) or a less good thing (less immediate power delivery) is probably down to personal preference. I'd prefer it to be firmer, personally.
-The lever pivot is in pretty close to the bar, and works really nicely for running a short reach, which tends to be my preference. I like that part.
 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
488
418
Perth, WA.
You can do as you describe, buy and wait. There are numerous reports on the largest German mtb forum of people who got theirs within 3-5 months. A buddy of mine received his set in a comparable time span last year. The other possibility is scan the other big German online retailers on a daily basis, esp. bike24.com gets a bunch from time to time but those are always gone within minutes.
Good luck hunting!
Hi @Flo33, I'm curious about your long term experience with Trickstuff brakes. So far they've been given amazing informal reviews by a few members here. I know you've been happy with them in the past. Any changes over the long term, or insights that have emerged? I have heard in one comment on a review they are "touchy" or difficult to get working nicely. Normally I wouldn't pay much attention to these kind of comments, but given the initial outlay, I am a little more sensitive to any criticism. Perhaps more than I should be, but curious anyway.

Cheers!
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,010
1,146
El Lay
My Cura2s have a very short lever pull to bite compared to any disc brake I've tried.

I’ve read the entire thread over the last few days and I feel like I’ve learned a lot so thank you! I came here considering a brake swap from my Code RSCs which I can get feeling nice but it never lasts very long.

I’m looking for something with a short lever throw to the bite point and then some amount of modulation from there (I.e. not an immediate lockup). With careful piston cleaning and lubing I can achieve this with my codes but only for a few rides before the pistons get a little dirty and the free stroke increases again.

Having read the thread my number one choice would be Trickstuff Direttissima which seems to offer exactly what I want. I’m also a sucker for a machined finish so the Hope Tech 4 V4 is also under consideration.

Availability is obviously tricky with these so I have two questions:

1. I could I just order a set from r2 bike and wait. They’re listed for a relatively reasonable price (I said relatively). I saw a post earlier suggesting they don’t necessarily take the full 12-18 months to show up. Does anyone have a lead on a set that might be available sooner? Or any tips for finding a set? I’d be fine with black or silver and would also be happy to wait if I have to.
2. Has anyone been able to compare the DRT to the Hope Tech 4 V4? It seems like in theory the Hopes will have a longer lever throw, but how does the amount of dead stroke compare to the Trickstuff?
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,720
Australia
I’ve read the entire thread over the last few days
You poor bastard

2. Has anyone been able to compare the DRT to the Hope Tech 4 V4? It seems like in theory the Hopes will have a longer lever throw, but how does the amount of dead stroke compare to the Trickstuff?
The trickstuffs Ive tried have much less dead throw than my T3 V4s and I doubt the T4 lever has less throw
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
542
350
What pads are you running in your codes? My wife wanted new brakes on her new bike until I threw some galfer semi metalics in her guides and now it seems to have less free play than my xt 4 pots.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
My (borrowed) two cents about the Curas: my friend who owns a bike shop and is one of the most capable bike mechanics I know says they're the most bitchest brakes to yield a perfect bleed in just one go he's had to deal with.

He usually bleeds them one day, gives the bike a shakedown and leaves them to sit overnight, to bleed them again the next day. Seems like the calipers are prone to hold a bunch of micro bubbles which only migrate towards the MC/brake line after a good whooping.

The smaller (comparatively) amount of extra oil in the reservoir of the Cura 4s versus the one of the 2s only exacerbates this issue, since the pad wear leaves less oil to compensate for the whole inner volume variance.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,625
12,917
Cackalacka du Nord
My (borrowed) two cents about the Curas: my friend who owns a bike shop and is one of the most capable bike mechanics I know says they're the most bitchest brakes to yield a perfect bleed in just one go he's had to deal with.

He usually bleeds them one day, gives the bike a shakedown and leaves them to sit overnight, to bleed them again the next day. Seems like the calipers are prone to hold a bunch of micro bubbles which only migrate towards the MC/brake line after a good whooping.

The smaller (comparatively) amount of extra oil in the reservoir of the Cura 4s versus the one of the 2s only exacerbates this issue, since the pad wear leaves less oil to compensate for the whole inner volume variance.
it's true, but even with a shit bleed they work really well, perform consistently, and have decent lever feel. the one mechanic i know who can bleed them well males them feel amazing. full disclosure, i'm not one of those wierdos who likes to run there levers 1mm from their bars. i like solid, end of throw bite a few mm out.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
it's true, but even with a shit bleed they work really well, perform consistently, and have decent lever feel. the one mechanic i know who can bleed them well males them feel amazing. full disclosure, i'm not one of those wierdos who likes to run there levers 1mm from their bars. i like solid, end of throw bite a few mm out.
Maybe I didn't explain my point well enough. My friend has one of those full time asshole customers, who also owns a bike with a set of Cura 2s and another one with a set of Cura 4s. The guy has had a ton of complains about the lever feel of the 4s versus the one of the 2s after their first bleed. I mean, they still hold a lot of power and modulation, but getting the lever feel to brand new after some time is almost impossible according to him.

EDIT: Today's breakdown at NSMB brings out some (to me) important points about servicing disc brakes:

 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
542
350
Your friend needs to bleed slower probably. We have the same issue with audi clutch hydraulics, if you bleed too fast the air turns into micro bubbles and it have to let it sit for a few hours and try again. Probably from small passages or a sharp turn in them.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
997
973
Your friend needs to bleed slower probably. We have the same issue with audi clutch hydraulics, if you bleed too fast the air turns into micro bubbles and it have to let it sit for a few hours and try again. Probably from small passages or a sharp turn in them.
Yup, I've noticed this on both MT7s and Codes. Any time I do a pull on a syringe (creating vacuum), I let the syringe set for 30sec or so to let the micro bubbles dissipate.

Related to the NSMB article, one of my peeves with Magura brakes is they don't sell service parts. I had an issue with sticky pistons on a MT7 set I bought used, and contacted their customer service explaining the situation and asking where I could buy new pistons. They said they're not serviceable and just sent me a whole new caliper. Great CS, but really wasteful.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,853
9,557
AK
So I could, theoretically, buy hope tech 4 X2s, use the levers with my V4s, use the old Tech 3 V4 levers on the X2s on my XC race bike…

Hmm…

What I really want though is two front Tech 4 levers, one to throw on the enduro bike and one on the wide tire abomination Foes.

On other note, planning on using Motul RBF 660 auto racing fluid in my Hopes left over from my car brake bleed (unopened).
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,720
Australia
On other note, planning on using Motul RBF 660 auto racing fluid in my Hopes left over from my car brake bleed (unopened).
I've run that one before and couldn't really tell difference from the stock fluid. The Motul 5.1 is lower visco and when I got a bottle of that I noticed slightly lighter lever feel if that matters to you. Also bled up bubbles nice and easy.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,057
1,298
Styria
Hi @Flo33, I'm curious about your long term experience with Trickstuff brakes. So far they've been given amazing informal reviews by a few members here. I know you've been happy with them in the past. Any changes over the long term, or insights that have emerged? I have heard in one comment on a review they are "touchy" or difficult to get working nicely. Normally I wouldn't pay much attention to these kind of comments, but given the initial outlay, I am a little more sensitive to any criticism. Perhaps more than I should be, but curious anyway.

Cheers!
Hi Kurt,

one thing that is not ideal is the original clamp. If your handlebar is a hair bit undersized, they start to get loose. Happened to me and I had to get the machined ones which are way nicer btw.
Next thing I'm not happy with are the SRAM interfaces. On the left side it works pretty well with my Bikeyoke trigger but the X01 trigger sits far too flat and inboard for me to be in a good position.

Everything else is just as it should be, I did bleed it exactly two times, first when shortening the original hoses and the second time only the rear when I moved it from the Reign to the Titan and needed a longer hose. That in it self is a hassle free job thanks to the usage of line fittings instead of the damn pin and olive shit. I've been using the Trickstuff bleedkit and was able to achieve a perfect bleed both times. I swapped the original fluid for Redline Likewater and am very happy with it. I rode with Atherton's team rider and Trickstuff sponsored Andi Kolb in the cold and he even thought I had a better feeling brake than his, meaning the bite point was a bit better defined in his eyes. I think that was due to the very good viscosity properties of Likewater.
Braking power is just as good as all the reviews suggest. The outstanding aspect is its consistency. It brakes very good and it does so all the time no matter how long the descent and how steep. I'm using the Trickstuff power+ pads in the front and the standard pads in the rear brake. The power+ went away like butter in a hot pan in the rear and the standard has way longer running time at just slightly lower power.
Lever throw from zero to the bite point is super short. The bite point itself feels a bit soft when just pressing the lever thanks to the high hydraulic leverage but is as consistent as power resulting in very good control.
The design and engineering are a just a joy looking at them and I definitely clean them more often then any other bike part. :nerd:
hth, cheers
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
Hi Kurt,

one thing that is not ideal is the original clamp. If your handlebar is a hair bit undersized, they start to get loose. Happened to me and I had to get the machined ones which are way nicer btw.
Next thing I'm not happy with are the SRAM interfaces. On the left side it works pretty well with my Bikeyoke trigger but the X01 trigger sits far too flat and inboard for me to be in a good position.

Everything else is just as it should be, I did bleed it exactly two times, first when shortening the original hoses and the second time only the rear when I moved it from the Reign to the Titan and needed a longer hose. That in it self is a hassle free job thanks to the usage of line fittings instead of the damn pin and olive shit. I've been using the Trickstuff bleedkit and was able to achieve a perfect bleed both times. I swapped the original fluid for Redline Likewater and am very happy with it. I rode with Atherton's team rider and Trickstuff sponsored Andi Kolb in the cold and he even thought I had a better feeling brake than his, meaning the bite point was a bit better defined in his eyes. I think that was due to the very good viscosity properties of Likewater.
Braking power is just as good as all the reviews suggest. The outstanding aspect is its consistency. It brakes very good and it does so all the time no matter how long the descent and how steep. I'm using the Trickstuff power+ pads in the front and the standard pads in the rear brake. The power+ went away like butter in a hot pan in the rear and the standard has way longer running time at just slightly lower power.
Lever throw from zero to the bite point is super short. The bite point itself feels a bit soft when just pressing the lever thanks to the high hydraulic leverage but is as consistent as power resulting in very good control.
The design and engineering are a just a joy looking at them and I definitely clean them more often then any other bike part. :nerd:
hth, cheers
So, $1k brakes that have 12-18 months waiting list require custom machined clamps and can't be easily used with other components?

:think:
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,010
1,146
El Lay
I installed a fresh Galfer 200 one-piece 2mm rotor in the back and now my Dominions are feeling amazing and the lever throw is much better.

I will go to a 2mm in front once I burn out this Hope floating 220… I may even size down to 200 in front.
 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
488
418
Perth, WA.
Hi Kurt,

one thing that is not ideal is the original clamp. If your handlebar is a hair bit undersized, they start to get loose. Happened to me and I had to get the machined ones which are way nicer btw.
Next thing I'm not happy with are the SRAM interfaces. On the left side it works pretty well with my Bikeyoke trigger but the X01 trigger sits far too flat and inboard for me to be in a good position.

Everything else is just as it should be, I did bleed it exactly two times, first when shortening the original hoses and the second time only the rear when I moved it from the Reign to the Titan and needed a longer hose. That in it self is a hassle free job thanks to the usage of line fittings instead of the damn pin and olive shit. I've been using the Trickstuff bleedkit and was able to achieve a perfect bleed both times. I swapped the original fluid for Redline Likewater and am very happy with it. I rode with Atherton's team rider and Trickstuff sponsored Andi Kolb in the cold and he even thought I had a better feeling brake than his, meaning the bite point was a bit better defined in his eyes. I think that was due to the very good viscosity properties of Likewater.
Braking power is just as good as all the reviews suggest. The outstanding aspect is its consistency. It brakes very good and it does so all the time no matter how long the descent and how steep. I'm using the Trickstuff power+ pads in the front and the standard pads in the rear brake. The power+ went away like butter in a hot pan in the rear and the standard has way longer running time at just slightly lower power.
Lever throw from zero to the bite point is super short. The bite point itself feels a bit soft when just pressing the lever thanks to the high hydraulic leverage but is as consistent as power resulting in very good control.
The design and engineering are a just a joy looking at them and I definitely clean them more often then any other bike part. :nerd:
hth, cheers
Thanks for your detailed reply!

Really good to hear that they are as good as they say, and consistently so as well.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Really good to hear that they are as good as they say, and consistently so as well.
They're terrible, don't buy them.
I love that there's always a steady steam of Americans here lining up to slander a brakeset they'll never buy.

This tip might have paid off for me, I‘ve been checking the German sites occasionally and found a single set showing in stock on Bike24 yesterday so grabbed them. No shipping notification yet but fingers crossed I think I got lucky.
Enjoy! They're easy enough to get if you actually want them.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,777
4,700
Champery, Switzerland
They're terrible, don't buy them.
I love that there's always a steady steam of Americans here lining up to slander a brakeset they'll never buy.


Enjoy! They're easy enough to get if you actually want them.
Which ones would you get between the Maxima and Direttissima? I think I remember you saying the Direttisima would have a shorter lever throw?
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Which ones would you get between the Maxima and Direttissima? I think I remember you saying the Direttisima would have a shorter lever throw?
Covered in detail in post #1028 and then summarised in post #1456.

Personally, I love the DRT's short throw, close-to-bar pivot, and the ability to run the lever's starting position very close to the bar as a result. It makes it easy to deathgrip brake-bump sections (5 fingers / full palm instead of 4 fingers on the grip = significant reduction in hand/arm pump) and very quickly / safely grab the lever again when needed. I always wanted to do this more, but the DRT is the first brake that let me execute it with ease - especially on the rear brake / lever.

However I also mentioned you specifically as a candidate for the Maxima in those posts - partly due to mixed 29" use + riding exceptionally steep stuff, but also because you have huge hands and seem less sensitive to needing close-reach (thus requiring short-throw) levers as a result.

I think for most people the DRT would be the better experience, especially anyone who cares about weight - they're ridiculously light at ~230g/end. The Maxima is a LOT heavier at 311g (F, and 359g R) thanks to the steel hoses, but likely still lighter than your Hayes A4 as a pair.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,720
Australia
Covered in detail in post #1028 and then summarised in post #1456.

Personally, I love the DRT's short throw, close-to-bar pivot, and the ability to run the lever's starting position very close to the bar as a result. It makes it easy to deathgrip brake-bump sections (5 fingers / full palm instead of 4 fingers on the grip = significant reduction in hand/arm pump) and very quickly / safely grab the lever again when needed. I always wanted to do this more, but the DRT is the first brake that let me execute it with ease - especially on the rear brake / lever.

However I also mentioned you specifically as a candidate for the Maxima in those posts - partly due to mixed 29" use + riding exceptionally steep stuff, but also because you have huge hands and seem less sensitive to needing close-reach (thus requiring short-throw) levers as a result.

I think for most people the DRT would be the better experience, especially anyone who cares about weight - they're ridiculously light at ~230g/end. The Maxima is a LOT heavier at 311g (F, and 359g R) thanks to the steel hoses, but likely still lighter than your Hayes A4 as a pair.
After riding your DRTs I'd hate see what kind of rider actually needs moar power than that. Those things are pretty nuts.

PS. I still love those Dominion A4s also even if its like comparing a tractor to a Ferrari in terms of finish (and weight) compared to the Trickstuffs.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,777
4,700
Champery, Switzerland
Covered in detail in post #1028 and then summarised in post #1456.

Personally, I love the DRT's short throw, close-to-bar pivot, and the ability to run the lever's starting position very close to the bar as a result. It makes it easy to deathgrip brake-bump sections (5 fingers / full palm instead of 4 fingers on the grip = significant reduction in hand/arm pump) and very quickly / safely grab the lever again when needed. I always wanted to do this more, but the DRT is the first brake that let me execute it with ease - especially on the rear brake / lever.

However I also mentioned you specifically as a candidate for the Maxima in those posts - partly due to mixed 29" use + riding exceptionally steep stuff, but also because you have huge hands and seem less sensitive to needing close-reach (thus requiring short-throw) levers as a result.

I think for most people the DRT would be the better experience, especially anyone who cares about weight - they're ridiculously light at ~230g/end. The Maxima is a LOT heavier at 311g (F, and 359g R) thanks to the steel hoses, but likely still lighter than your Hayes A4 as a pair.
Ok thanks. I had a pair of Maximas for a few weeks and they were very nice but I think I will try and get a set of the DRT. I was surprised they offer both.
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
561
405
On another topic, have any of you tried the Lifeline or Nukeproof sintered pads from Wiggle? Impressions?
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,720
Australia
On another topic, have any of you tried the Lifeline or Nukeproof sintered pads from Wiggle? Impressions?
The Nukeproof pads seem very inconsistent. Me and some of the crew tried them and initially were happy but the latest pairs were woeful.
 

Rhubarb

Monkey
Jan 11, 2009
462
238
Oh dear. I just installed a set of NP pads. Not sure which iteration but I think they are the latest. Ran NP pads years ago and don’t recall issues, but this is when I was constantly changing bikes and components.
Running organics which is my preference. A handful of rides and so far so good.
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
561
405
The Nukeproof pads seem very inconsistent. Me and some of the crew tried them and initially were happy but the latest pairs were woeful.
Thanks man. Do you always run sintered pads front and rear or have you tried mixing?
 
Last edited:
Apr 3, 2022
3
4
Just found, and read this thread recently. Great to see there is other like minded people. (With a ton of knowledge and experience)

After getting back into biking 8yrs ago, I have tried a numerous brakes. I would have been happy with the 8000 -9000 series Shimano brakes, but with the wandering bite point I decided to go down the MTB Brake rabbit hole.

Being a big guy I am looking for a lot of power in my brakes, I went the Magura route first and was happy with the power but have found them to be finicky, pads rubbing on rotors/sticky pistons.
I tried some Code Rsc’s and didn’t care for the feel/power and build quality seems sub par,
then tried some Formula cura4‘s with a good bleed and some trickstuff power pads these were a very powerful brake, but I didn’t care for the lever and the lever throw, I purchased some aftermarket levers from a guy in Italy and those combined with the power pads and a formula 220 rotor, these were crazy powerful! But still didn’t care for the lever throw.
I have been using some Domionion A4 on a couple of my bikes and have had good luck combining them with some 2mm Galfer rotors, but was having bad luck with 1 of the sets on my Ebike,when combined with a 203 rotor in the rear, they give the worst brake harmonics/vibrations, so bad that i can feel it through my body! I tried multiple adaptors and rotors with some combinations being a bit better than the others, but ended up going down to a 180 rotor in the rear, and this stopped the harmonics.
I have also been using some Braking Incas 2 this past season and found the lever feel to be firm with great throw and pad clearance! But last season i found the power to not be what i was looking for,I had tried the braking carbo metallic pads, MTX gold, Trickstuff power and some EDC organic, the power pads and the EDC’s seemed to work best. I recently swapped the brakes over to a new bike and put some MTX red pads in and they seem to be working better than I remember.
That all being said, I have been after some DRT, thanks to this thread and some of the members on the best way to go ahead with this, I went ahead and just ordered some from a German online shop.
Now its sit back and wait
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
23,928
14,450
where the trails are
My Direttissimas arrived the other day and they're so nice! I had to swap and trim the hoses which meant a full bleed on both ends but they're set up now and I'm really happy with the quality and stopping power. As a bonus they're black with silver levers and reservoir cover which I didn't think was an option but they look cool.

View attachment 176283
Nice! you got from Bike 24, you said?
Where are you located, @appltn ?