Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion
- Thread starter Udi
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10 MTB's in our house, four bigger bikes have Codes, other six have Guides/G2's. I just buy the sintered pads in bags of 20.
This is the way. Go with smaller rotors if you want less power for some reason.
You can do as you describe, buy and wait. There are numerous reports on the largest German mtb forum of people who got theirs within 3-5 months. A buddy of mine received his set in a comparable time span last year. The other possibility is scan the other big German online retailers on a daily basis, esp. bike24.com gets a bunch from time to time but those are always gone within minutes.
Good luck hunting!
I've got a few days on the Tech 4 V4. Early thoughts:
-They're a lot more powerful than the Tech 3, but still a bit off the most powerful options out there. At this point I'd say they feel pretty close to Code RSCs.
-Lever throw is on the long side. I haven't measured yet but it's definitely a bit longer than Code RSCs or Saints (with the contact point adjuster all the way in on all of them). Probably close to Dominion A4s.
-The bite point isn't all that firm. Whether that feels like a good thing (more modulation) or a less good thing (less immediate power delivery) is probably down to personal preference. I'd prefer it to be firmer, personally.
-The lever pivot is in pretty close to the bar, and works really nicely for running a short reach, which tends to be my preference. I like that part.
-They're a lot more powerful than the Tech 3, but still a bit off the most powerful options out there. At this point I'd say they feel pretty close to Code RSCs.
-Lever throw is on the long side. I haven't measured yet but it's definitely a bit longer than Code RSCs or Saints (with the contact point adjuster all the way in on all of them). Probably close to Dominion A4s.
-The bite point isn't all that firm. Whether that feels like a good thing (more modulation) or a less good thing (less immediate power delivery) is probably down to personal preference. I'd prefer it to be firmer, personally.
-The lever pivot is in pretty close to the bar, and works really nicely for running a short reach, which tends to be my preference. I like that part.
Hi @Flo33, I'm curious about your long term experience with Trickstuff brakes. So far they've been given amazing informal reviews by a few members here. I know you've been happy with them in the past. Any changes over the long term, or insights that have emerged? I have heard in one comment on a review they are "touchy" or difficult to get working nicely. Normally I wouldn't pay much attention to these kind of comments, but given the initial outlay, I am a little more sensitive to any criticism. Perhaps more than I should be, but curious anyway.
Cheers!
You poor bastard
The trickstuffs Ive tried have much less dead throw than my T3 V4s and I doubt the T4 lever has less throw
My (borrowed) two cents about the Curas: my friend who owns a bike shop and is one of the most capable bike mechanics I know says they're the most bitchest brakes to yield a perfect bleed in just one go he's had to deal with.
He usually bleeds them one day, gives the bike a shakedown and leaves them to sit overnight, to bleed them again the next day. Seems like the calipers are prone to hold a bunch of micro bubbles which only migrate towards the MC/brake line after a good whooping.
The smaller (comparatively) amount of extra oil in the reservoir of the Cura 4s versus the one of the 2s only exacerbates this issue, since the pad wear leaves less oil to compensate for the whole inner volume variance.
He usually bleeds them one day, gives the bike a shakedown and leaves them to sit overnight, to bleed them again the next day. Seems like the calipers are prone to hold a bunch of micro bubbles which only migrate towards the MC/brake line after a good whooping.
The smaller (comparatively) amount of extra oil in the reservoir of the Cura 4s versus the one of the 2s only exacerbates this issue, since the pad wear leaves less oil to compensate for the whole inner volume variance.
My cura 2 are excellent, even if rubbing sometimes, the 4s made me nuts trying to keep dialed and consistent.
Im all in on the TRP Evos.
Im all in on the TRP Evos.
it's true, but even with a shit bleed they work really well, perform consistently, and have decent lever feel. the one mechanic i know who can bleed them well males them feel amazing. full disclosure, i'm not one of those wierdos who likes to run there levers 1mm from their bars. i like solid, end of throw bite a few mm out.
Maybe I didn't explain my point well enough. My friend has one of those full time asshole customers, who also owns a bike with a set of Cura 2s and another one with a set of Cura 4s. The guy has had a ton of complains about the lever feel of the 4s versus the one of the 2s after their first bleed. I mean, they still hold a lot of power and modulation, but getting the lever feel to brand new after some time is almost impossible according to him.
EDIT: Today's breakdown at NSMB brings out some (to me) important points about servicing disc brakes:
NSMB.com - Brakes Of Future Past
Brands like SRAM, Formula, Hope, and Hayes will sell you all the parts you need to fully refresh your brake system and Andrew thinks we're on the cusp of that mattering to a lot more riders.
nsmb.com
Your friend needs to bleed slower probably. We have the same issue with audi clutch hydraulics, if you bleed too fast the air turns into micro bubbles and it have to let it sit for a few hours and try again. Probably from small passages or a sharp turn in them.
Yup, I've noticed this on both MT7s and Codes. Any time I do a pull on a syringe (creating vacuum), I let the syringe set for 30sec or so to let the micro bubbles dissipate.
Related to the NSMB article, one of my peeves with Magura brakes is they don't sell service parts. I had an issue with sticky pistons on a MT7 set I bought used, and contacted their customer service explaining the situation and asking where I could buy new pistons. They said they're not serviceable and just sent me a whole new caliper. Great CS, but really wasteful.
So I could, theoretically, buy hope tech 4 X2s, use the levers with my V4s, use the old Tech 3 V4 levers on the X2s on my XC race bike…
Hmm…
What I really want though is two front Tech 4 levers, one to throw on the enduro bike and one on the wide tire abomination Foes.
On other note, planning on using Motul RBF 660 auto racing fluid in my Hopes left over from my car brake bleed (unopened).
Hmm…
What I really want though is two front Tech 4 levers, one to throw on the enduro bike and one on the wide tire abomination Foes.
On other note, planning on using Motul RBF 660 auto racing fluid in my Hopes left over from my car brake bleed (unopened).
Hi Kurt,
one thing that is not ideal is the original clamp. If your handlebar is a hair bit undersized, they start to get loose. Happened to me and I had to get the machined ones which are way nicer btw.
Next thing I'm not happy with are the SRAM interfaces. On the left side it works pretty well with my Bikeyoke trigger but the X01 trigger sits far too flat and inboard for me to be in a good position.
Everything else is just as it should be, I did bleed it exactly two times, first when shortening the original hoses and the second time only the rear when I moved it from the Reign to the Titan and needed a longer hose. That in it self is a hassle free job thanks to the usage of line fittings instead of the damn pin and olive shit. I've been using the Trickstuff bleedkit and was able to achieve a perfect bleed both times. I swapped the original fluid for Redline Likewater and am very happy with it. I rode with Atherton's team rider and Trickstuff sponsored Andi Kolb in the cold and he even thought I had a better feeling brake than his, meaning the bite point was a bit better defined in his eyes. I think that was due to the very good viscosity properties of Likewater.
Braking power is just as good as all the reviews suggest. The outstanding aspect is its consistency. It brakes very good and it does so all the time no matter how long the descent and how steep. I'm using the Trickstuff power+ pads in the front and the standard pads in the rear brake. The power+ went away like butter in a hot pan in the rear and the standard has way longer running time at just slightly lower power.
Lever throw from zero to the bite point is super short. The bite point itself feels a bit soft when just pressing the lever thanks to the high hydraulic leverage but is as consistent as power resulting in very good control.
The design and engineering are a just a joy looking at them and I definitely clean them more often then any other bike part.
hth, cheers
So, $1k brakes that have 12-18 months waiting list require custom machined clamps and can't be easily used with other components?Hi Kurt,
one thing that is not ideal is the original clamp. If your handlebar is a hair bit undersized, they start to get loose. Happened to me and I had to get the machined ones which are way nicer btw.
Next thing I'm not happy with are the SRAM interfaces. On the left side it works pretty well with my Bikeyoke trigger but the X01 trigger sits far too flat and inboard for me to be in a good position.
Everything else is just as it should be, I did bleed it exactly two times, first when shortening the original hoses and the second time only the rear when I moved it from the Reign to the Titan and needed a longer hose. That in it self is a hassle free job thanks to the usage of line fittings instead of the damn pin and olive shit. I've been using the Trickstuff bleedkit and was able to achieve a perfect bleed both times. I swapped the original fluid for Redline Likewater and am very happy with it. I rode with Atherton's team rider and Trickstuff sponsored Andi Kolb in the cold and he even thought I had a better feeling brake than his, meaning the bite point was a bit better defined in his eyes. I think that was due to the very good viscosity properties of Likewater.
Braking power is just as good as all the reviews suggest. The outstanding aspect is its consistency. It brakes very good and it does so all the time no matter how long the descent and how steep. I'm using the Trickstuff power+ pads in the front and the standard pads in the rear brake. The power+ went away like butter in a hot pan in the rear and the standard has way longer running time at just slightly lower power.
Lever throw from zero to the bite point is super short. The bite point itself feels a bit soft when just pressing the lever thanks to the high hydraulic leverage but is as consistent as power resulting in very good control.
The design and engineering are a just a joy looking at them and I definitely clean them more often then any other bike part.
hth, cheers
The sets now sold come with the machined clamps.So, $1k brakes that have 12-18 months waiting list require custom machined clamps and can't be easily used with other components?
Last week +10 sets of DRTs were available at bike24.
so it was just the original clamp design that's no longer in use that was problematic?
Yes but not for everyone. Udi was not affected with his handlebar afaik.
I installed a fresh Galfer 200 one-piece 2mm rotor in the back and now my Dominions are feeling amazing and the lever throw is much better.
I will go to a 2mm in front once I burn out this Hope floating 220… I may even size down to 200 in front.
I will go to a 2mm in front once I burn out this Hope floating 220… I may even size down to 200 in front.
Thanks for your detailed reply!Hi Kurt,
one thing that is not ideal is the original clamp. If your handlebar is a hair bit undersized, they start to get loose. Happened to me and I had to get the machined ones which are way nicer btw.
Next thing I'm not happy with are the SRAM interfaces. On the left side it works pretty well with my Bikeyoke trigger but the X01 trigger sits far too flat and inboard for me to be in a good position.
Everything else is just as it should be, I did bleed it exactly two times, first when shortening the original hoses and the second time only the rear when I moved it from the Reign to the Titan and needed a longer hose. That in it self is a hassle free job thanks to the usage of line fittings instead of the damn pin and olive shit. I've been using the Trickstuff bleedkit and was able to achieve a perfect bleed both times. I swapped the original fluid for Redline Likewater and am very happy with it. I rode with Atherton's team rider and Trickstuff sponsored Andi Kolb in the cold and he even thought I had a better feeling brake than his, meaning the bite point was a bit better defined in his eyes. I think that was due to the very good viscosity properties of Likewater.
Braking power is just as good as all the reviews suggest. The outstanding aspect is its consistency. It brakes very good and it does so all the time no matter how long the descent and how steep. I'm using the Trickstuff power+ pads in the front and the standard pads in the rear brake. The power+ went away like butter in a hot pan in the rear and the standard has way longer running time at just slightly lower power.
Lever throw from zero to the bite point is super short. The bite point itself feels a bit soft when just pressing the lever thanks to the high hydraulic leverage but is as consistent as power resulting in very good control.
The design and engineering are a just a joy looking at them and I definitely clean them more often then any other bike part.
hth, cheers
Really good to hear that they are as good as they say, and consistently so as well.
They're terrible, don't buy them.
I love that there's always a steady steam of Americans here lining up to slander a brakeset they'll never buy.
Enjoy! They're easy enough to get if you actually want them.
Yes it does, thanks to slightly lower hydraulic leverage ratio.
Covered in detail in post #1028 and then summarised in post #1456.
Personally, I love the DRT's short throw, close-to-bar pivot, and the ability to run the lever's starting position very close to the bar as a result. It makes it easy to deathgrip brake-bump sections (5 fingers / full palm instead of 4 fingers on the grip = significant reduction in hand/arm pump) and very quickly / safely grab the lever again when needed. I always wanted to do this more, but the DRT is the first brake that let me execute it with ease - especially on the rear brake / lever.
However I also mentioned you specifically as a candidate for the Maxima in those posts - partly due to mixed 29" use + riding exceptionally steep stuff, but also because you have huge hands and seem less sensitive to needing close-reach (thus requiring short-throw) levers as a result.
I think for most people the DRT would be the better experience, especially anyone who cares about weight - they're ridiculously light at ~230g/end. The Maxima is a LOT heavier at 311g (F, and 359g R) thanks to the steel hoses, but likely still lighter than your Hayes A4 as a pair.
The Nukeproof pads seem very inconsistent. Me and some of the crew tried them and initially were happy but the latest pairs were woeful.
Oh dear. I just installed a set of NP pads. Not sure which iteration but I think they are the latest. Ran NP pads years ago and don’t recall issues, but this is when I was constantly changing bikes and components.
Running organics which is my preference. A handful of rides and so far so good.
Running organics which is my preference. A handful of rides and so far so good.
Thanks man. Do you always run sintered pads front and rear or have you tried mixing?
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I mix them up a bit, just seem to always end up going back to sintered for all weather predictability.
Just found, and read this thread recently. Great to see there is other like minded people. (With a ton of knowledge and experience)
After getting back into biking 8yrs ago, I have tried a numerous brakes. I would have been happy with the 8000 -9000 series Shimano brakes, but with the wandering bite point I decided to go down the MTB Brake rabbit hole.
Being a big guy I am looking for a lot of power in my brakes, I went the Magura route first and was happy with the power but have found them to be finicky, pads rubbing on rotors/sticky pistons.
I tried some Code Rsc’s and didn’t care for the feel/power and build quality seems sub par,
then tried some Formula cura4‘s with a good bleed and some trickstuff power pads these were a very powerful brake, but I didn’t care for the lever and the lever throw, I purchased some aftermarket levers from a guy in Italy and those combined with the power pads and a formula 220 rotor, these were crazy powerful! But still didn’t care for the lever throw.
I have been using some Domionion A4 on a couple of my bikes and have had good luck combining them with some 2mm Galfer rotors, but was having bad luck with 1 of the sets on my Ebike,when combined with a 203 rotor in the rear, they give the worst brake harmonics/vibrations, so bad that i can feel it through my body! I tried multiple adaptors and rotors with some combinations being a bit better than the others, but ended up going down to a 180 rotor in the rear, and this stopped the harmonics.
I have also been using some Braking Incas 2 this past season and found the lever feel to be firm with great throw and pad clearance! But last season i found the power to not be what i was looking for,I had tried the braking carbo metallic pads, MTX gold, Trickstuff power and some EDC organic, the power pads and the EDC’s seemed to work best. I recently swapped the brakes over to a new bike and put some MTX red pads in and they seem to be working better than I remember.
That all being said, I have been after some DRT, thanks to this thread and some of the members on the best way to go ahead with this, I went ahead and just ordered some from a German online shop.
Now its sit back and wait
After getting back into biking 8yrs ago, I have tried a numerous brakes. I would have been happy with the 8000 -9000 series Shimano brakes, but with the wandering bite point I decided to go down the MTB Brake rabbit hole.
Being a big guy I am looking for a lot of power in my brakes, I went the Magura route first and was happy with the power but have found them to be finicky, pads rubbing on rotors/sticky pistons.
I tried some Code Rsc’s and didn’t care for the feel/power and build quality seems sub par,
then tried some Formula cura4‘s with a good bleed and some trickstuff power pads these were a very powerful brake, but I didn’t care for the lever and the lever throw, I purchased some aftermarket levers from a guy in Italy and those combined with the power pads and a formula 220 rotor, these were crazy powerful! But still didn’t care for the lever throw.
I have been using some Domionion A4 on a couple of my bikes and have had good luck combining them with some 2mm Galfer rotors, but was having bad luck with 1 of the sets on my Ebike,when combined with a 203 rotor in the rear, they give the worst brake harmonics/vibrations, so bad that i can feel it through my body! I tried multiple adaptors and rotors with some combinations being a bit better than the others, but ended up going down to a 180 rotor in the rear, and this stopped the harmonics.
I have also been using some Braking Incas 2 this past season and found the lever feel to be firm with great throw and pad clearance! But last season i found the power to not be what i was looking for,I had tried the braking carbo metallic pads, MTX gold, Trickstuff power and some EDC organic, the power pads and the EDC’s seemed to work best. I recently swapped the brakes over to a new bike and put some MTX red pads in and they seem to be working better than I remember.
That all being said, I have been after some DRT, thanks to this thread and some of the members on the best way to go ahead with this, I went ahead and just ordered some from a German online shop.
Now its sit back and wait