[Boozzz]

What's your opinion on this guys? While cleaning up the Hope Tech 4s again, probably against my better judgement wanting to give them a final shot before I send them in for warranty, I noticed it actually has quite a massive wandering bite point. Hit the lever a few times in succession, and the brake engages a centimeter further away from the bars. It's very noticeable, front and rear brake have it, though front perhaps slightly less. Made a quick clip:

Checked this on my Hayes Dominion A2 and they don't do this at all. Tech 3 V4 also fares a lot better. Hope wanting to go the Shimano way?

 

[toodles]

I was so close to giving the T4 Hopes a go but ended up trying and then buying the Dominion A4s. Worrying they have that many issues hey.

Couple of friends here have the new Hopes with no problems but you'd want perfection for the price of the damn things.

 

[Boozzz]

Yeah, for the money it's pretty bad. Surprising how hard it can be to make a decent and consistent brake, it's no quantum physics. Interesting other observation was that when I bled the rear brake, the worst offender, to see if that made any difference, the fluid from the caliper end was very dirty and black. Dye from the seals according to Hope. I've personally never seen this on an almost new brake though.

Hope to get my money back. And in the spirit of this thread I'll whip up some temporary Shigura's (until the lever craps out).

Still, curious if other T4 users experience this 'pump the lever and bite point moves out by a lot' phenomenon? @Jm_ ?

 

[Jm_]

Yeah, for the money it's pretty bad. Surprising how hard it can be to make a decent and consistent brake, it's no quantum physics. Interesting other observation was that when I bled the rear brake, the worst offender, to see if that made any difference, the fluid from the caliper end was very dirty and black. Dye from the seals according to Hope. I've personally never seen this on an almost new brake though.

Hope to get my money back. And in the spirit of this thread I'll whip up some temporary Shigura's (until the lever craps out).

Still, curious if other T4 users experience this 'pump the lever and bite point moves out by a lot' phenomenon? @Jm_ ?

I thought about replying earlier, but I'm not sure I had much to day. I use them very much because they have consistent lever travel, but...Hope bleeding is asinine IMO. You are trying to right gravity, meaning if there are any stuck bubbles around pistons, etc., they are basically never coming out and the design of a caliper with the cross-over kind of makes this at least somewhat likely. With shimano you can use gravity to help nudge them up, but you are supposed to use their dumb push the pistons out and hope not to push them too far method they show in the video. What I'm thinking is there's some air in there that sometimes manifests. One thing to try is the zip-tie lever overnight method. I've also had some inconsistent stuff on a trip where my bike was upside down for an extended period and I had no brakes for a while (must have been that little bit of air in the reservoir worked it's way into the lines). I did a field-bleed on that vacation trip and got them back to working, but I definitely had some air in it on that trip. I haven't been on the T4s in a while since winter, save for a couple trips where I took my bike, but I'm on T3s every week and that's some of my experience with them. The Shimano issue, if you ever experienced, pushes the engagement point further and further out, decreasing your natural ability to lever your joints and deliver power. Eventually, there's virtually no lever travel and they are all the way "out". Happens much faster when cold, but happens when hot too. Many never experience it due to the rapid braking on steep stuff that usually is necessary for it to manifest.

 

[Boozzz]

Aye, much appreciated! Bleed is down solid in this case (have had a few years of experience with older Hopes), and the issue is truly like the Shimano issue, but less severe. But still quite noticeable.

I guess a bit of pump-up of the lever is inevitable in an open hydraulic system when activating it in quick succession, as the pistons and fluid always need a bit of time to retract. But in the case of these T4V4's, I find it too much. Too much recovery time needed, and too much travel change (a bit over 1 cm).

If you're saying your T4's don't have this at all, I know enough to know my set is royally fubar.

 

[Nick]

Im in XL or xxl and run the reach all the way in, or a click or three from there. Its perfect for me, but If TRP could have the same throw and feel, but 5-10mm additional adjustment in.....

Anybody have real-world experience with these levers, or this company?

Brake Levers for TRP DH-R Evo

TRP makes a premium product, and the DHR-Evo brake is the best of the best. This brake was designed with a reach that is farther away than the average mtb brake. We have noticed that this causes arm pump and fatigue, especially on race runs and longer enduro stages. Our lever moves the lever...

freedomcoast.net

 

[OGRipper]

Anybody have real-world experience with these levers, or this company?

Brake Levers for TRP DH-R Evo

TRP makes a premium product, and the DHR-Evo brake is the best of the best. This brake was designed with a reach that is farther away than the average mtb brake. We have noticed that this causes arm pump and fatigue, especially on race runs and longer enduro stages. Our lever moves the lever...

freedomcoast.net

No experience but those are certainly interesting. However, my only issue with my DH-R Evo's is that I'd like to reduce the amount of lever throw a bit. I can put the levers in an ok starting position with the reach adjuster, but would like a little less throw and there's no bite point or similar adjustment. I expect there's probably some bleed trickery that can reduce the throw but I haven't looked into it yet. (Anyone?) I'm really digging my DH-R EVO's otherwise.

 

[Nick]

No experience but those are certainly interesting. However, my only issue with my DH-R Evo's is that I'd like to reduce the amount of lever throw a bit. I can put the levers in an ok starting position with the reach adjuster, but would like a little less throw and there's no bite point or similar adjustment. I expect there's probably some bleed trickery that can reduce the throw but I haven't looked into it yet. (Anyone?) I'm really digging my DH-R EVO's otherwise.

Well, I'll be the guinea pig !

probably install them over the weekend, unless I get bored tonight. with another snowstorm setting in on us, there's no rush
This cosmic finish is nice! I bought a pair in silver for the other bike, but now I wish I got a second set of these.

 

[Nick]

Lever "feel" is excellent. Split perch clamps have zero flex.
I like to run my levers close to the bars, pictures show the adjustment all the way in where I like them, there's about 10mm throw between open and engaged. If you like the hooks of your levers closer than 45 mm these may not work for you.
View attachment 161874
View attachment 161875

There's enough adjustment to crank them out a full inch I'd bet for riders with larger hands. Tool free adjusters too. The short throw is nice, and modulation is excellent. These stock pads are interesting too. They are advertised as resin pads but they feel like a metal pad. I'm not really a brake dragger but I sensed no fade on the few rides I've had.

I'd rate power = the 820 saints they replace with moar better modulation. I also have a pair on my downhill bike with 8" rotors.

All old brakes are for sale. If these don't suffer from random bite point or some other long term issues these are absolute winners.

Update on the blingy levers. I like them
Also notable is because of the shape you can get them much closer to the bar/grip, excellent for those with smaller hands. This is the lever depressed and the reach adjuster isn't even dialed all the way in, it could get closer still.

 

[Westy]

Sick and tired of wobbly rubbing rotors.

 

[Milleratio]

Sick and tired of wobbly rubbing rotors.

View attachment 193755

You seem to have created a solution to mount dial indicator: Is it just a longer axle where the dial indicator or something else?

Interesting!

 

[Milleratio]

Has anyone here real life experience on using Putoline HPX R 2.5W synthetic fork oil in Shimano brakes?

HPX R 2.5W productinformatie. - Putoline

Putoline Oil is a high-quality supplier of a wide range of lubricants and maintenance products. We only supply products for motorised two-wheelers and that makes us unique! Our years of experience, combined with continuous research results in the best price/quality ratio. Manufacturing our own...

www.putoline.com

 

[Boozzz]

Has anyone here real life experience on using Putoline HPX R 2.5W synthetic fork oil in Shimano brakes?

Yeah, but only on Magura and Shigura setups. Works perfectly fine. Used for a few years on Magura, a few weeks on Shigura. Little bit thinner than Shimano and Magura fluid, so that's good, plus I could get it way cheaper. No wandering bite point on the Shigura, but the levers are still fairly new, so the bore/mc piston hasn't worn much yet.

 

[Westy]

You seem to have created a solution to mount dial indicator: Is it just a longer axle where the dial indicator or something else?

Interesting!

I was measuring things up to make an axle mount for the indicator and realized I could just wrap the threads where the shaft normally mounts into the mag base with a little bit of electrical tape and it would press into the end of the axle. Not elegant or super precise but it is three of my favorite things. Fast, cheap, and good enough.

 

[Nick]

Sick and tired of wobbly rubbing rotors.

a. how much runout did you have in your rotors?
2. how close to perfect have you got them, using the indicator?

 

[Westy]

a. how much runout did you have in your rotors?
2. how close to perfect have you got them, using the indicator?

There was only 0.005" of runout and I got it down to about 0.002". Where as some people want less free play in their brakes I would like sufficient pad clearance for how straight a rotor can reasonably be. I expect it to all go to shit again after a few deep heating cycles.

 

[Jm_]

Has anyone here real life experience on using Putoline HPX R 2.5W synthetic fork oil in Shimano brakes?

HPX R 2.5W productinformatie. - Putoline

Putoline Oil is a high-quality supplier of a wide range of lubricants and maintenance products. We only supply products for motorised two-wheelers and that makes us unique! Our years of experience, combined with continuous research results in the best price/quality ratio. Manufacturing our own...

www.putoline.com

View attachment 193763

Yep. Marginal improvement. Bite point issue still exists in the extremes (extremely steep extended, etc.).

not really anything bad about it, last time i bled (last week) i just used my large container of shimano oil, since there wasnt much difference to start with.

 

[Westy]

I went on a brake adjusting rampage today. My admiration for Hayes Dominions has turned into sheer contempt. Was never able to set them up without a fair bit of rubbing. At first I blamed warped rotors. With my ghetto indicator rig I got the front true to within 0.002" and they still rub, but only a little more of an annoyance. Tried moving the lever contact point adjuster and it did nothing to pad clearance. The rear was rubbing really bad. After only a few months and a handful of rides one side of the caliper does not move and there isn't enough adjustment in the caliper to center it. The one side will move if I hold the other but there is enough friction that the other side will just push the rotor over until full contact.

 

[Flo33]

but there is enough friction that the other side will just push the rotor over until full contact.

And resulting in a mushy feeling bite point?

 

[Westy]

And resulting in a mushy feeling bite point?

Kind of, but more like super draggy with a secondary bite point.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Tried moving the lever contact point adjuster and it did nothing to pad clearance

Pad clearence is only governed by the flexing of the seals around the pistons at the caliper

one side of the caliper does not move

Extend the draggy piston as far as you dare, clean the sliding surface (with IPA and a rag), apply Dot grease, massage the piston several times, clean the excess grease.
Hopefully it will solve your issue

 

[6thElement]

(with IPA and a rag),

I use a piece of string soaked with ipa and use it like a wire saw wrapped over the piston.

 

[canadmos]

I went on a brake adjusting rampage today. My admiration for Hayes Dominions has turned into sheer contempt. Was never able to set them up without a fair bit of rubbing. At first I blamed warped rotors. With my ghetto indicator rig I got the front true to within 0.002" and they still rub, but only a little more of an annoyance. Tried moving the lever contact point adjuster and it did nothing to pad clearance. The rear was rubbing really bad. After only a few months and a handful of rides one side of the caliper does not move and there isn't enough adjustment in the caliper to center it. The one side will move if I hold the other but there is enough friction that the other side will just push the rotor over until full contact.

My Dominions have rubbed as well.

Last week the rear started squeeling midride, so had to stop and adjust. Been fine since.

Yesterday the front start rubbing at the bottom of a hill, but them I rolled over a log and it went away?

But the lever feel remained constant the entire time, so no funny business like Shimano.

I am running slightly thicker rotors than what Hayes offers themselves, maybe something to do with it?

 

[Happymtb.fr]

@Westy if cleaning doesn't help, there is a rebuild kit:

Dominion A4 Caliper Rebuild Kit

The parts you need to rebuild the Hayes Dominion A4 caliper. Includes pistons and o-rings.

hayesbicycle.com

 

[Westy]

@Westy if cleaning doesn't help, there is a rebuild kit:

Dominion A4 Caliper Rebuild Kit

The parts you need to rebuild the Hayes Dominion A4 caliper. Includes pistons and o-rings.

hayesbicycle.com

Cleaning did not help. Pulled them off so I could ride. Will dig into them later but if they need a rebuild after a few months, no thanks.

 

[Milleratio]

I went on a brake adjusting rampage today. My admiration for Hayes Dominions....

I have kind of a similar case: Dominion A4 with D-series rotors. The brakes are rubbing but thats only because untrued rotors. Also of course it doesn’t matter so much as they are installed in emtb.

 

[canadmos]

Cleaning did not help. Pulled them off so I could ride. Will dig into them later but if they need a rebuild after a few months, no thanks.

Warranty? Get some new ones

 

[Nick]

its wet here so I did some bike maintenance, and thinking of @Westy I geeked out on my rotor's trueness, pushed out pistons to clean and lubify them, and have them perfect (for now).
I think cleaning of pistons should occur MUCH more often. It's wild how uneven all 4 pistons seemed to move and retract, where now they're even and super consistent.

 

[sundaydoug]

I've finally got them to the point where they're not rubbing, but took me a while with my Dominions. At first they would not rub in the stand, but they'd rub under lateral flex of the bike. Like when traversing a steep pitch where you're heavily weighting one side of the bike, causing the wheel and frame to flex. Seems like those calipers really have to be set up where the rotor is dead-center between the pads. Otherwise they rub. Not enough to slow the wheel down, just enough to be annoying. Fantastic brakes once you get past this.

 

[ebarker9]

So, I added the 40/45/90 degree fitting on my Magura MT5 rear levers. The instructions are an "interesting" translation, but generally good enough, except that I have a small O-ring left over and have no idea what it was supposed to be used for. There are two larger O-rings that get used where the new part that can be angled attaches, but zero mention of the smaller one. Anyone install one of these and have an idea?

 

[OGRipper]

Update on the blingy levers. I like them
Also notable is because of the shape you can get them much closer to the bar/grip, excellent for those with smaller hands. This is the lever depressed and the reach adjuster isn't even dialed all the way in, it could get closer still.

Thanks for the update, been wondering! Do they reduce lever throw in any way, or just reach?

 

[Nick]

Thanks for the update, been wondering! Do they reduce lever throw in any way, or just reach?

I don't notice any change in lever throw, no, but I don't find the throw excessive (ymmv).

 

[Cerberus75]

@Westy if cleaning doesn't help, there is a rebuild kit:

Dominion A4 Caliper Rebuild Kit

The parts you need to rebuild the Hayes Dominion A4 caliper. Includes pistons and o-rings.

hayesbicycle.com

I almost went this route. I extended the pistons, cleaned and rubbed some silicone lubricant on them with a Qtip and now they're fine.

 

[canadmos]

On the note of Hayes Dominions, has anyone swapped to the SFL (short finger lever), levers?

Are they longer?

Girlfriend has small hands and can barely reach the levers, with her hands at the end of her grips. This is with the levers butted right up against the grips.

Maybe shorter grips would be better? But she also likes these Ergon slim grips...

 

[toodles]

On the note of Hayes Dominions, has anyone swapped to the SFL (short finger lever), levers?

Are they longer?

Girlfriend has small hands and can barely reach the levers, with her hands at the end of her grips. This is with the levers butted right up against the grips.

Maybe shorter grips would be better? But she also likes these Ergon slim grips...

I rode a set of the SFL levers on a borrowed bike. If anything, I'd say the lever length (from pivot) seemed slightly shorter. They are closer to the bar though. Kinda feels like a Shimano lever

 

[Da Peach]

On the note of Hayes Dominions, has anyone swapped to the SFL (short finger lever), levers?

Are they longer?

Girlfriend has small hands and can barely reach the levers, with her hands at the end of her grips. This is with the levers butted right up against the grips.

Maybe shorter grips would be better? But she also likes these Ergon slim grips...

I’ve got some on the way. We shall see.

 

[Jm_]

Well the Magura 220 rotor that I bought back in the day is kind of screwing me, I used it for what I thught was a decent amount, it's still got life on it IMO for lesser duties, but good luck finding a +40 brake adapter at a bike shop (for 180 mount)...they are all +43 for 160 mounts and the industry decided metric 160, metric 180...fuck lets do imperial for the next two sizes, that'll cockblock people! The Magura was one if the first "bigger than 203" but its a lot harder going down from 43 to 40 than going up from 40 to 43.

 

[sethimus]

every good sorted shop should have the sram one available, a +60 is way harder to find

 

[Jm_]

every good sorted shop should have the sram one available, a +60 is way harder to find

you are right tho, the friendly shop had it.

 

[Milleratio]

I think this might fall under "brake improvement":
Just had second run in bikepark with my Shimano Saints that have been in use since last season. The braking power was not the best and I started getting the bitepoint wandering. First I tried to clean everything with brakecleaner but nothing changed. At the evening I changed a new set of Shimano H03C brakepads to front brake and the change was immediate and clear: No bitepoint and 100% good braking power.

I'm starting to think that maybe it's just more easy to put new pads for every new season.