[Udi]

Had to try 4 different 203mm rotors until I could find one that was straight enough to not rub from side to side on Hayes A4s, and that is after attempting to straighten while measureing with a dial indicator. They seem to need to be within 0.003". Great brakes but the required rotor tolerances are much tighter than even Hayes seems to produce.

It's hard to get around this with the modern generation of powerful brakes with reasonably short throw - Formula / Trickstuff require similar so I wouldn't hold it against Hayes. Not perfect but better than the alternatives in my book. I've been replacing rotors more often to make sure they're true, the rub can cause forward pitching on larger jumps.

I do think this is one area where TS offer some benefit over cheaper brakes though, the polished stainless slave pistons in anodized 7075-T6 bores seem to hold more consistent return distance over the life of the brake. The quality of this interface becomes more important when rotor clearance is reduced.

 

[Milleratio]

Has anyone done brake caliper mounting point facing? Would be interesting to try and see what’s the factory quality. A bit tool snobbery but who cares

 

[ebarker9]

Has anyone done brake caliper mounting point facing? Would be interesting to try and see what’s the factory quality. A bit tool snobbery but who cares

I'm curious as well. Unfortunately the tool sets are expensive enough that it would be kind of nuts to buy just to check how close things are.

 

[Andeh]

So here's a question I thought of when someone mentioned facing recently: how do you know any mis-alignment is on the mounting post? Isn't it just as likely that the bottom of the mount tabs of the caliper are also mis-aligned to the pistons? Or that the face of the rotor mount is perfectly perpendicular to the axle? It just seems like there's so many different places for there to be tiny tolerance issues which lead to things not being dead on, it seems strange to focus on the tops of the mounting posts.

 

[slimshady]

That's why Avid came up with the conical washers solution back in the day, and I thought it was spot on. Then when they switched the branding to SRAM they argued frame alignment had improved and the conical washers were unnecessary.

 

[toodles]

So here's a question I thought of when someone mentioned facing recently: how do you know any mis-alignment is on the mounting post? Isn't it just as likely that the bottom of the mount tabs of the caliper are also mis-aligned to the pistons? Or that the face of the rotor mount is perfectly perpendicular to the axle? It just seems like there's so many different places for there to be tiny tolerance issues which lead to things not being dead on, it seems strange to focus on the tops of the mounting posts.

Thats true but I'd expect that its a lot easier to QC caliper facing/machining and hub rotor attachment points etc. With the caliper mounts being faced correctly in relation to the axle theres more to go wrong and its harder to QC, if they even bother to. For the rear brake, any misalignment on the rear triangle causing the axle to be slightly off is going to cause issues, plus most (all?) axles seem to be thread captured on the opposite dropout so alignment angle at the caliper side is more liekly to be screwy if there's something out.

Makes me wonder how much the brake torque could cause flex and misalignment anyhow.

 

[Andeh]

That's why Avid came up with the conical washers solution back in the day, and I thought it was spot on. Then when they switched the branding to SRAM they argued frame alignment had improved and the conical washers were unnecessary.

Thats true but I'd expect that its a lot easier to QC caliper facing/machining and hub rotor attachment points etc. With the caliper mounts being faced correctly in relation to the axle theres more to go wrong and its harder to QC, if they even bother to. For the rear brake, any misalignment on the rear triangle causing the axle to be slightly off is going to cause issues, plus most (all?) axles seem to be thread captured on the opposite dropout so alignment angle at the caliper side is more liekly to be screwy if there's something out.

Makes me wonder how much the brake torque could cause flex and misalignment anyhow.

Yeah, I put a set of conical washers above the caliper tabs for the bolts to press against on my ebike to be safe, because I've got 220 rotors on it and the frame isn't super stiff, but I'd think that just makes sure the load is evenly distributed from the bolt head to the caliper tabs. Even with them, if I load up the frame and brake hard, it makes some noise but then sorts itself out. I also kind of assume that if there's any slight fixed misalignment, the pads will just wear accordingly to compensate.

 

[Antonio080]

Hi guys, I'm doing a research
What's the shortest lever throw brakes you have experienced with?

Best candidate at the moment is formula cura2, curious about Hayes A2
Thanks

 

[Andeh]

My impression is that physical throw on Hayes is actually not that short, but once the engagement start, bite comes on quick. The physical force required to move them though is really, really light.

Shortest physical throw I've used I think was Code RSCs with the Cascade Components cam set, 2.0mm rotors, and contact point set way out. But the bite feel was still less pronounced, and the overall force required to move lever was higher.

 

[toodles]

What's the shortest lever throw brakes you have experienced with?

Any set of SRAM brakes left sitting for too long usually ends up with zero lever throw.

Actually thought, Trickstuffs have real short throw, and the Shimano brakes with the servo lever are usually pretty good for short throw if you do a lever bleed every third day.

The Hayes A2s I tried were short throw and very firm lever feel at the bite point, but power was down considerably on the A4s.

 

[cheapondirt]

I made an account just for this (though I have read at least half of this thread in the past)! Over on pb, user FahkEet posted that he has successfully used Dominion A4 calipers with Code RSC levers. He says the sram banjo bolts right up, just with a bit of o-ring showing, but no leak yet on the first weekend of use.

I have RSCs and would like a power bump without spending Cascade Components money. I know I'd be missing out on all the goodness Hayes baked into the Dominion lever, but I run all my bike purchases through a self imposed allowance, so doing Cominions would happen a lot sooner than 'saving up' for the whole Hayes system.

So I bring you brake gods a simple question: Is this a good idea or am I missing an obvious reason not to do it?

 

[Boozzz]

So I bring you brake gods a simple question: Is this a good idea or am I missing an obvious reason not to do it?

Sure, see the spreadsheet or the Mountain Bike Brake Force Visualisation website to get an indication of what you'll gain by bigger pistons in the calliper. Since the Dominions don't have much pad clearance and leverwise the Dominion master cylinder is smaller than the Code, you'll probably be good not having too much lever travel to the engagement point.

What's the shortest lever throw brakes you have experienced with?
Best candidate at the moment is formula cura2, curious about Hayes A2
Thanks

I've both Hayes sitting here. Measured the A2 at 15 mm travel to engagement point, the A4 at 13 mm. So some variance there, though the A4 is quite new with fresh pads, the A2 is quite old with worn pads.

 

[Antonio080]

I've both Hayes sitting here. Measured the A2 at 15 mm travel to engagement point, the A4 at 13 mm. So some variance there, though the A4 is quite new with fresh pads, the A2 is quite old with worn pads.
[/QUOTE]

ow than U so much for those numbers

 

[Antonio080]

I‘ve my eyes on a set of Trickstuff Cleg4 but seems very hard to find info about them.

 

[Bikael Molton]

My Cura 2 pots are the shortest throw I’ve ever experienced on any bike. The Dominion A4s on my other bike are nowhere near the Curas.

Curas are on Galfer wave 2mm 180/203, and the A4s are on Galfer wave 2mm 203/220.

I have XXl length hands so short throw doesn’t matter to me… in fact the short throw on the Curas feels a bit weird and I sometimes pull harder than needed since it’s the bike I don’t ride as often.

Hi guys, I'm doing a research
What's the shortest lever throw brakes you have experienced with?

Best candidate at the moment is formula cura2, curious about Hayes A2
Thanks

 

[SuspectDevice]

I wear kids large gloves- short throw and short reach are both equally important to me.
Formula and Sram brakes are the only ones i’ve found that allow me to decelerate without aftermarket short finger levers…

I’m still a fan of hoarding G1 and G2 code calipers and mating them to guideR master cylinders with some phat rotors.
My TRP DHR Evos do have more power, but the lever has to be incredibly far from the bar to not have way too much stroke.

 

[Andeh]

Yeah, so continuing to be less than impressed with the quality these Galfer pads. After one set of them randomly starting to howl, I noticed some rubbing today. Fine, NBD, just need to align caliper or remobilize pistons. I go to do that, and upon taking out the pads, I notice the top of both of them has a ragged edge overhanging where the rotor goes. I've never had that happen on any other set of pads on any set of brakes (let alone the stock T100s on these Hayes). And they seem to be wearing down pretty quickly. I sanded the ragged overhang off and will finish these off, but will be going back to T100s after this.

 

[toodles]

Yeah, so continuing to be less than impressed with the quality these Galfer pads.

I haven't tried Galfers in the Hayes A4s yet but was planning to do that next. Bit of a bummer if they're no good though, I'm trying to find an aftermarket option that works in the wet because for some stupid reason Hayes sintered pads cost $80 a pair here

 

[canadmos]

I haven't tried Galfers in the Hayes A4s yet but was planning to do that next. Bit of a bummer if they're no good though, I'm trying to find an aftermarket option that works in the wet because for some stupid reason Hayes sintered pads cost $80 a pair here

That's steep. They are $50 here, but no where appears to stock them and Hayes will charge shipping...

I put these on the girlfriend's bike, but haven't tried them yet. Will let you know if they're a failure.

https://mtxbraking.com/product/red-label-brake-pads/

 

[Subversion_Garage]

While searching around for some info on different brake mineral oils, I came across the spreadsheet (excellent, and thank you). However, I did notice that some viscosity values were either incorrect or missing, and being unable to edit the info, I will just add it here for someone with access.

Pulling from the manufacturer's SDS, the following are at 40c

Magura RB 11.5
Shimano 8
Redline LW 4
Maxima 8.67

Another thing of note is that Shimano claims Magura fluid will damage the seal in Shimano brakes. I have no experience with that, and it may have already been covered earlier in this thread.

For the record, I am running LikeWater in my "shigura" setup, and so far have not had any issues.

*EDIT* I added the Maxima info

 

[freeriding1]

Hallo! I want to change my brake pads in sram code and hope v4.
I do enduro and light dh riding.
I would like your opinion on these 3, if anyone has tested them.

In order of importance it would be: bite power+fading resistance, low noise, life.

1. Galfer purple (e-bikes)
2. Galfer green (pro)
3. Trickstuff standard
4. Trickstuff Power

Kind regards!

 

[toodles]

Of those I've only tried the Galfer Pro and Trickstuff Power.

I'd rate the Galfer for bite and noise, the Trickstuff for life. Can't comment on fade resistance

 

[Udi]

I know I'd be missing out on all the goodness Hayes baked into the Dominion lever, but I run all my bike purchases through a self imposed allowance, so doing Cominions would happen a lot sooner than 'saving up' for the whole Hayes system.

I'd just wait/save and get the full Hayes A4 system, though it's against the spirit of the thread and Boozzz is probably more in-tune with this stuff than I am these days.

I‘ve my eyes on a set of Trickstuff Cleg4 but seems very hard to find info about them.

I'd skip the Cleg4 and get the DRT.

1. Galfer purple (e-bikes)
2. Galfer green (pro)
3. Trickstuff standard
4. Trickstuff Power

I've only tried Galfer Pro and Trickstuff Power, of those two I much preferred the Trickstuff.

 

[Westy]

It's hard to get around this with the modern generation of powerful brakes with reasonably short throw - Formula / Trickstuff require similar so I wouldn't hold it against Hayes. Not perfect but better than the alternatives in my book. I've been replacing rotors more often to make sure they're true, the rub can cause forward pitching on larger jumps.

I do think this is one area where TS offer some benefit over cheaper brakes though, the polished stainless slave pistons in anodized 7075-T6 bores seem to hold more consistent return distance over the life of the brake. The quality of this interface becomes more important when rotor clearance is reduced.

I would expect any company that makes brakes that require very straight rotors to sell at least one version of rotors that are straight enough to work with their brakes.

 

[Subversion_Garage]

Finally putting my new frame in the stand to build, and wanted to know if there was a better alternative brake hose for Magura (MT7) calipers?

If I gotta spend $100+ for brake hose, there has to be something better.

 

[Udi]

I would expect any company that makes brakes that require very straight rotors to sell at least one version of rotors that are straight enough to work with their brakes.

I'd return any brand new rotor that wasn't straight enough for application, but good luck getting your high expectations met in a Hayes-priced product. They're great value but there's also a reason competing products exist at 3x the price.

 

[kidwoo]

I would expect any company that makes brakes that require very straight rotors to sell at least one version of rotors that are straight enough to work with their brakes.

let me introduce you to a concept called "people who order shit from china and call themselves a bike company"

 

[Jm_]

Hallo! I want to change my brake pads in sram code and hope v4.
I do enduro and light dh riding.
I would like your opinion on these 3, if anyone has tested them.

In order of importance it would be: bite power+fading resistance, low noise, life.

1. Galfer purple (e-bikes)
2. Galfer green (pro)
3. Trickstuff standard
4. Trickstuff Power

Kind regards!

My Hope V4s came with two Galfer pads, the Purple E-bike and Sintered. E-bike pretty good power, more durability than straight Sintered. Both are pretty good IME. The organics (they also came with these) are shit.

 

[HardtailHack]

Has anyone done brake caliper mounting point facing? Would be interesting to try and see what’s the factory quality. A bit tool snobbery but who cares

Forever ago I took an On-One frame to a mate's shop to have the mount faced, he started laughing and showed me how far it was from where it should have been. The facing tool only touched the very edge of the mount so I aligned it as best I could with a shifting spanner.

 

[sethimus]

My Hope V4s came with two Galfer pads, the Purple E-bike and Sintered. E-bike pretty good power, more durability than straight Sintered. Both are pretty good IME. The organics (they also came with these) are shit.

whats that in colors?

 

[djjohnr]

Finally putting my new frame in the stand to build, and wanted to know if there was a better alternative brake hose for Magura (MT7) calipers?

If I gotta spend $100+ for brake hose, there has to be something better.

I've used Jagwire pro brake hose a couple of times when OEM hose wasn't available or wouldn't fit internal routing. Not sure about it being any better, but it's a viable alternative I haven't run into issues with.

 

[Jm_]

whats that in colors?

Ebike is purple. I've used those ones up. Sintered is gold/metallic finish, which is what I'm using now. Green is organic and IME, it was shit. There's a 4th option now, that didn't come with my brakes, red.

 

[sethimus]

whats the noise with the purples? i use the sintered shimano pads with galfer sharkdisc and they rubbing/vibrating a lot with annoying noise

 

[Jm_]

whats the noise with the purples? i use the sintered shimano pads with galfer sharkdisc and they rubbing/vibrating a lot with annoying noise

I don't have noise, so no idea. IME, the purple and gold are pretty close, purple supposed to be more durable, gold better in wet and muck. Neither created any noise.

Usually, this is a resonance frequency issue, your pads are vibrating back and forth very rapidly under braking because the rotor frequency is such that it allows that to resonate. But changing the rotor doesn't necessarily fix it, but it might. Other parts of the system could be contributing and allowing the frequency to propagate. I've noticed this problem is worst with very large thin/lightweight rotors and small calipers. The more material there, such as all the extra crap on icetechs, or thicker rotors with less cut-outs, beefier and stiffer calipers, the better the results. I run an 8" lightweight ashima rotor on my fatbike and that one can howl downhill and start vibrating when I'm doing downhills after road hill climbs. Moving to a smaller rotor fixes it or just putting on a heavier rotor seems to also fix it.

I wonder if there's any difference with CL vs 6-bolt here?

 

[Andeh]

2 of the 4 pairs of Galfer Purples are very quiet in summer conditions here. If they get wet from dew or a puddle, they scream for the first few seconds until they heat up. 1 pair acted like it was contaminated and vibrated bad, through 3-4 rounds of decon of pads & rotor and was tossed. 1 pair honks really loudly for the first time I brake after a climb, but is silent for the rest of the descent. The 2 good pairs don't have as much of a metallic grinding sound when dragging brakes that I get with Hayes T100 or that I recall from TrickStuff Power (on MT7s).

I recall the TrickStuff Power pads were obscenely powerful on my MT7s, but had a lifespan of like 3 months.

I tried MTX Golds on Code RSCs and they were much more powerful than the stock SRAM pads. They lasted a long time too. So, typical sintered pad performance.

 

[sethimus]

I don't have noise, so no idea. IME, the purple and gold are pretty close, purple supposed to be more durable, gold better in wet and muck. Neither created any noise.

Usually, this is a resonance frequency issue, your pads are vibrating back and forth very rapidly under braking because the rotor frequency is such that it allows that to resonate. But changing the rotor doesn't necessarily fix it, but it might. Other parts of the system could be contributing and allowing the frequency to propagate. I've noticed this problem is worst with very large thin/lightweight rotors and small calipers. The more material there, such as all the extra crap on icetechs, or thicker rotors with less cut-outs, beefier and stiffer calipers, the better the results. I run an 8" lightweight ashima rotor on my fatbike and that one can howl downhill and start vibrating when I'm doing downhills after road hill climbs. Moving to a smaller rotor fixes it or just putting on a heavier rotor seems to also fix it.

I wonder if there's any difference with CL vs 6-bolt here?

i had no issues with an all shimano setup before, on the same fork. in the rear its even worse

 

[Jm_]

I'd think the unsupported galfer shark teeth would be a prime suspect for vibration.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Have you cleaned or swapped the rotors? Worn out Shimanos are notorious for leaking fluid past the pistons, causing howling.

i had no issues with an all shimano setup before, on the same fork. in the rear its even worse

 

[sethimus]

Have you cleaned or swapped the rotors? Worn out Shimanos are notorious for leaking fluid past the pistons, causing howling.

they were quite new, took them over from my cousin, he had maybe 10 days on them

my old shimanos were on the stolen bike

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Seems I'm not the only one who wished the TRP DHR levers came closer to the bar.

These are from Oak Components, BTI stocks them.
Slightly flatter blade than stock with a nice finger hook.