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Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion

Milleratio

Chimp
Oct 24, 2021
83
62
Has anyone noticed any difference between DOT4 and DOT5.1 when riding below -5’C?

My Hayes rear brake has lost the free play in the lever when it gets really cold. Can and could be anything else of course.
 

Milleratio

Chimp
Oct 24, 2021
83
62
That should be well within dot fluid ranges. Stiff seals?
It's strange that the affect is only on the rear brake. I'm thinking it might be because the caliber gets covered in snow more easily than the the front.

It would be interesting to test by putting some kind of cover like a piece of camping mattress on the caliber. The levers are safe and warm inside the 45Nrth pogies 8-)

1703926041406.png
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,879
7,416
SADL
It would be interesting to test by putting some kind of cover like a piece of camping mattress on the caliper.
I'm surprised no one came up with a 3D printed caliper cover for fatbike. When you dive in snow with hot discs and pads it ices instantly. You end up with no brakes usually at the most inappropriate time. :disgust1:
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,652
AK
I'm surprised no one came up with a 3D printed caliper cover for fatbike. When you dive in snow with hot discs and pads it ices instantly. You end up with no brakes usually at the most inappropriate time. :disgust1:
Never really a problem. Crossing streams with supercooled water, yeah you can get some ice, riding dragging the brake burns it off easy.
 
Feb 21, 2020
832
1,161
SoCo Western Slope
Swapped some Galfer pads in XT 4 pots and they work great, but damn they rattle!
Seems like the metal back is a bit smaller than the MTX ones which I never noticed the pad rattle with.

Other than spreading the springs out to get more pressure on the pads, any other tricks to help the pad rattle in Shimano calipers?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,499
19,499
Canaderp
Swapped some Galfer pads in XT 4 pots and they work great, but damn they rattle!
Seems like the metal back is a bit smaller than the MTX ones which I never noticed the pad rattle with.

Other than spreading the springs out to get more pressure on the pads, any other tricks to help the pad rattle in Shimano calipers?
Switch to Hayes?


I always used the Shimano metal pads in my XT brakes. Never had complaints with them, other than the cost. No rattling either.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,967
13,220
Swapped some Galfer pads in XT 4 pots and they work great, but damn they rattle!
Seems like the metal back is a bit smaller than the MTX ones which I never noticed the pad rattle with.

Other than spreading the springs out to get more pressure on the pads, any other tricks to help the pad rattle in Shimano calipers?
Grease the pads.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
What rotors are people running with their Dominions? I've been using HS2s but getting fed up with straightening them, and looking for alternatives (either Hayes D-Series or Galfers I guess).
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,440
20,242
Sleazattle
What rotors are people running with their Dominions? I've been using HS2s but getting fed up with straightening them, and looking for alternatives (either Hayes D-Series or Galfers I guess).
1.8 mm two piece TRPs have worked the best for me. Start out the straightest, stay the straightest. Unfortunately the 2.3mm disks will not work with Dominions.

You would think that Hayes brakes having what is probably the tightest pad to rotor clearance they would also offer the straightest rotors, theirs are closer to SRAM junk. Pringles could probably make a straighter rotor.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
1.8 mm two piece TRPs have worked the best for me. Start out the straightest, stay the straightest. Unfortunately the 2.3mm disks will not work with Dominions.

You would think that Hayes brakes having what is probably the tightest pad to rotor clearance they would also offer the straightest rotors, theirs are closer to SRAM junk. Pringles could probably make a straighter rotor.
Are you talking about the TRP slotted rotors (TR33)?
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,440
20,242
Sleazattle
Are you talking about the TRP slotted rotors (TR33)?
Yes. I have tried Shimano, Hayes, SRAM and TRP rotors. The TR33s seem to be the straightest, although that isn't based on a large sample size. I actually mount a dial indicator to the fork axle to measure and align the rotors. I have found you need less than 0.005" TIR to even have a chance with Dominions, and 0.005" is hard to achieve with thin bits of sheet metal that go through heavy thermal cycles.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
Yes. I have tried Shimano, Hayes, SRAM and TRP rotors. The TR33s seem to be the straightest, although that isn't based on a large sample size. I actually mount a dial indicator to the fork axle to measure and align the rotors. I have found you need less than 0.005" TIR to even have a chance with Dominions, and 0.005" is hard to achieve with thin bits of sheet metal that go through heavy thermal cycles.
Interesting, I'll take a look. Sounds like you haven't checked/tried Galfer Waves or Sharks?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,499
19,499
Canaderp
Interesting, I'll take a look. Sounds like you haven't checked/tried Galfer Waves or Sharks?
The price of those things tho....


I have Trickstuff HD rotors which are 2.something thick. It's a 50/50 gamble whether they rub or not on any given ride.

Will probably try out those TRP if Westy says the Hayes ones have a good chance of not being straight.

I actually picked up one of those old school caliper aligning tool things (think folded over piece of paper thin metal) and there's no chance of sliding it in between the pads and rotors. :D
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,440
20,242
Sleazattle
I actually picked up one of those old school caliper aligning tool things (think folded over piece of paper thin metal) and there's no chance of sliding it in between the pads and rotors. :D
I tried one of those, it will go in if you push the pads out, but only gets you in the ballpark.

My Hayes alignment process includes shining a lamp on the floor and sitting in just the right spot were light can reflect up and I can see minute gaps between the pads and the rotors, then try to use the alignment set screws by rotating them no more than 30 degrees at a time, and still overshoot a few times. Ultimately still need to wear the pads in for actual alignment.

Of course all this is after measuring and straightening the rotors with a dial indicator.

If the brakes weren't so damn good, it wouldn't be worth it.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,067
1,306
Styria
1.8 mm two piece TRPs have worked the best for me. Start out the straightest, stay the straightest.
Add Formula 2-piece to the party. Unfortunately out of production, I'm on the hunt permanently to no real success.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,067
1,306
Styria
I also liked those rotors. I still have some but they are very thin and cupped.
Mine are starting to really show some wear as well. I don't really understand why they have been discontinued, awesome product imho. @Udi also loved them.
I recommended them to a buddy who has less then 500 km on them on a Trek TopFuel. I'll try to convince him they are all but ideal for him in the near future :brows:
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
Well I found some of the Galfer Sharks in Yurp for the same price as a normal rotor (worked out to be <$70/ea including shipping to US), so going to give them a shot. From the reviews I read of them, they work great just are normally stupid expensive. If they don't work out maybe Trickstuff or Intend? They are surprisingly reasonably priced when buying from the Euro online shops.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,973
2,186
not in Whistler anymore :/
Well I found some of the Galfer Sharks in Yurp for the same price as a normal rotor (worked out to be <$70/ea including shipping to US), so going to give them a shot. From the reviews I read of them, they work great just are normally stupid expensive. If they don't work out maybe Trickstuff or Intend? They are surprisingly reasonably priced when buying from the Euro online shops.
curious how you find them, mine both make lots of vibrations/squeaking mit m8120 and shimano sintered pads
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,499
19,499
Canaderp
Well I found some of the Galfer Sharks in Yurp for the same price as a normal rotor (worked out to be <$70/ea including shipping to US), so going to give them a shot. From the reviews I read of them, they work great just are normally stupid expensive. If they don't work out maybe Trickstuff or Intend? They are surprisingly reasonably priced when buying from the Euro online shops.
Keep an eye out for deals on the Trickstuff rotors. They seem nice to me, just too thick I think for these Hayes (or this particular set). No idea where they fall on the Westy straightness scale, but I got them for something like $25. They were super cheap.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
Keep an eye out for deals on the Trickstuff rotors. They seem nice to me, just too thick I think for these Hayes (or this particular set). No idea where they fall on the Westy straightness scale, but I got them for something like $25. They were super cheap.
Yeah, that was my hesitation with the TS ones... 2.05mm. There's already soooo little clearance for the Hayes with a 2.0 that I didn't want to chance it.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
curious how you find them, mine both make lots of vibrations/squeaking mit m8120 and shimano sintered pads
Will do. If there's one thing I'm good at, it's complaining about bike noises. One set will go on the ebike with metallic pads, the other set on the enduro bike with organic pads. I also downsized the front rotor on the ebike from 220 to 203 with these... at one point I was running 220f/r on it and getting tons of noise with the metallics, but once I downsized to 220f/200r it got better. I suspect that some of my brake noise on that bike is due to it taking longer to heat up the rotor/pads due to the big rotor.

What size are you running? I have a buddy who tried the 220 Galfer Waves on his ebike with Shimano XTRs and sintered pads, and they made an unholy racket.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,973
2,186
not in Whistler anymore :/
front is 223 (or 220? dunno, forgot), rear 203. front is more squealing, rear one vibrates bad, but i read that also from others with a titan frame, so maybe unrelated. with organic pads its mostly gone. will transfer them on the kenevo, maybe it’s different on that one. also gonna face all the tabs, my mech just bought some new tools.
 

troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
1,008
742
front is 223 (or 220? dunno, forgot), rear 203. front is more squealing, rear one vibrates bad, but i read that also from others with a titan frame, so maybe unrelated. with organic pads its mostly gone. will transfer them on the kenevo, maybe it’s different on that one. also gonna face all the tabs, my mech just bought some new tools.
Consider facing your brake mounts, from my experience, this solves 90% of cases.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,512
4,761
Australia
What rotors are people running with their Dominions? I've been using HS2s but getting fed up with straightening them, and looking for alternatives (either Hayes D-Series or Galfers I guess).
Are the HS2s that bad? I was gonna try them next. I've got my Hayes on Shimano RT86 on one bike and Hope floating on the other. I prefer the Hopes but its a no-go as the insertion tab on the Dominion pads hits the rivets just as the pads are about worn out.

I'll try the Galfers or Hayes next.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
Yeah, the HS2 work fine but their QC is shit. 3/4 seem to be bent out of the factory (immediately noticeable following installation). I just put a brand new 200 HS2 on the front of my ebike yesterday while waiting for the Galfers to confirm that I don't really need a 220 up front, and sure enough, it took about a half dozen corrections with a truing wrench just to get it to not rub on well worn pads.

I asked @HAB about rotors since I know he's run a bunch on his Hayes, and he told me that the Hayes D-Series suffer the same QC issues as SRAM. He said the Hope floating rotors do a better than average job at staying straight, but make a pinging noise when cooling down. Another buddy who runs Hopes said the same thing.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,512
4,761
Australia
He said the Hope floating rotors do a better than average job at staying straight, but make a pinging noise when cooling down. Another buddy who runs Hopes said the same thing.
Yeah mine do that at the bottom of steep runs. I don't mind that, but the rivet thingy that holds the rotor to the spider hits the insertion tabs on the Hayes pads when the pads wear down and thats not great.