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Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
Shark rotors finally arrived and it stopped pissing rain long enough to get a good ride in. They weren't 100% true out of the box (honestly not surprised) but damn they definitely do have more bite than an HS2. We'll see how they hold up long term, but so far I'm pretty impressed. I wouldn't pay the full retail for them, but ordering them from Europe they cost the same as HS2s in the US, in which case I'd go with them again for sure.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,512
4,761
Australia
Shark rotors finally arrived and it stopped pissing rain long enough to get a good ride in. They weren't 100% true out of the box (honestly not surprised) but damn they definitely do have more bite than an HS2. We'll see how they hold up long term, but so far I'm pretty impressed. I wouldn't pay the full retail for them, but ordering them from Europe they cost the same as HS2s in the US, in which case I'd go with them again for sure.
I just googled what they cost here and holy balls...

Also I want to lock all rotor and brake manufacturers in a room and throw in a knife and whoever survives can decided once and for all on 200 vs 203 cos fuck me thats a stupid inconsistency
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,067
1,306
Styria
I just googled what they cost here and holy balls...

Also I want to lock all rotor and brake manufacturers in a room and throw in a knife and whoever survives can decided once and for all on 200 vs 203 cos fuck me thats a stupid inconsistency
Isn't SRAM the only 200 proponent left?
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,973
2,186
not in Whistler anymore :/
Shark rotors finally arrived and it stopped pissing rain long enough to get a good ride in. They weren't 100% true out of the box (honestly not surprised) but damn they definitely do have more bite than an HS2. We'll see how they hold up long term, but so far I'm pretty impressed. I wouldn't pay the full retail for them, but ordering them from Europe they cost the same as HS2s in the US, in which case I'd go with them again for sure.
no vibration issues with yours?
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,512
4,761
Australia
Isn't SRAM the only 200 proponent left?
Almost certainly. Ironic they went with a round metric number and the rest of the world didn't. Annoying though they made the Zeb have 200mm mounts stock.

So anyway, my knife fight proposal is the only solution
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
I just googled what they cost here and holy balls...

Also I want to lock all rotor and brake manufacturers in a room and throw in a knife and whoever survives can decided once and for all on 200 vs 203 cos fuck me thats a stupid inconsistency
Yep. When I bought the HS2s I got 200s because a) it just makes sense b) my Zebs are 200, c) my Nomad's post mount is 200. So when I got these 203s I had to get 4 pairs of those silly little 1.5mm adapter spacers.
 

FOTB

Chimp
Jan 31, 2024
6
3
Is the 2020 update of redline likewater too light? Anybody have experience with it leaking through piston seals?
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,652
AK
Why? IME those light oils did not fix the cold-weather/steep terrain engagement point issue on Shimano. A bit lighter lever action, but didn't translate to any noticeable improvement with the two main issues, which are the entire reason I was trying the lighter oil. Maybe in another brake they'd be different?

And it's really not about how light it is, it's about how much it does or doesn't thicken at cold temps, even a light oil may thicken a lot more than you are counting on, if that's the reason you are exploring this.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,652
AK
use antifreeze
I just need some magnesium I can mix with my spare shimano brakes so I can gloriously light them on fire to make a final sacrifice. Anyone know if XTR calipers are magnesium?
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
566
412
I just need some magnesium I can mix with my spare shimano brakes so I can gloriously light them on fire to make a final sacrifice. Anyone know if XTR calipers are magnesium?
Regarding magnesium, do you have Wellgo MG-1 pedals? :D
 

FOTB

Chimp
Jan 31, 2024
6
3
Why? IME those light oils did not fix the cold-weather/steep terrain engagement point issue on Shimano. A bit lighter lever action, but didn't translate to any noticeable improvement with the two main issues, which are the entire reason I was trying the lighter oil. Maybe in another brake they'd be different?

And it's really not about how light it is, it's about how much it does or doesn't thicken at cold temps, even a light oil may thicken a lot more than you are counting on, if that's the reason you are exploring this.
thansk for your reply. That is indeed the reason I’m exploring this, and I already (impulsively) bought the oil! So I just wanted to know if I’d be ruining my (TRP and shimano) calipers before I try it. I still have some shimano oil as a backup plan
 

FOTB

Chimp
Jan 31, 2024
6
3
I just need some magnesium I can mix with my spare shimano brakes so I can gloriously light them on fire to make a final sacrifice. Anyone know if XTR calipers are magnesium?
I think i did read somewhere that the 9100/9120 calipers are magnesium
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
If you purchased the 2020 version in 2024 you'll be lucky if there's any left in there, it's so thin it leaks right through the bottle.
 

FOTB

Chimp
Jan 31, 2024
6
3
If you purchased the 2020 version in 2024 you'll be lucky if there's any left in there, it's so thin it leaks right through the bottle.
Ive been trying to run this fluid in my TRP DH-R Evos AND i keep getting leaks. Can’t figure out if it’s the caliper or the redline likewater.
I know the fluid being so thin shouldn’t cause leaks, but I’m starting to wonder if the TRPs can’t handle it, and if I should just go back to shimano fluid
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
531
661
FWIW I just replaced the not-yet-bedded-in SRAM G2 rotors by TRP RS01E and they seem to have more bite right away. I would have not expected to see any difference between rotors (only had 15-20km on the rotors/pads with minimal braking). The 180mm one has an anti-rust coating (looks like thick clear lacquer) everywhere except on the brake tracks. Being stainless steel it shouldn’t matter much, but since it’s on my fat bike, why not.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,652
AK
FWIW I just replaced the not-yet-bedded-in SRAM G2 rotors by TRP RS01E and they seem to have more bite right away. I would have not expected to see any difference between rotors (only had 15-20km on the rotors/pads with minimal braking). The 180mm one has an anti-rust coating (looks like thick clear lacquer) everywhere except on the brake tracks. Being stainless steel it shouldn’t matter much, but since it’s on my fat bike, why not.
I like thick rotors and and I cannot lie.
 

Boozzz

Chimp
Sep 12, 2019
81
85
Amsterdayummm
Read a few comments about them suffering from excessive lever pump up on quick successive lever engagement. Must be due to the fluid not being able to travel back fast enough. Let your customers beta test right? Just like Hope with their Tech 4 (V4 in my and other's case). Noice.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,024
1,154
El Lay
It’s pretty nuts that a company of SRAMs funding and stature can’t release a premiere gravity brake without wandering bite point. This is probably their most important product release this year, coming off the win from T-type.

What is it with MTB brakes that makes it so hard to design and manufacture a strong and consistent brake?

I’m content with the awesome Hayes Doms, but these issues have me scratching my head…
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,942
24,512
media blackout
a handful of instances of wandering bite point from reviewers and John Q Mountain Biker has already written the product off only 24 hours after its launch.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,024
1,154
El Lay
If one of the largest MTB companies in the world can't send a fully functional brake to some of the most important users in the industry (media reviewers), even if a race tech or engineer has to do custom set up to get the system to work, something is wrong with either the product or company as a whole.


a handful of instances of wandering bite point from reviewers and John Q Mountain Biker has already written the product off only 24 hours after its launch.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,942
24,512
media blackout
If one of the largest MTB companies in the world can't send a fully functional brake to some of the most important users in the industry (media reviewers), even if a race tech or engineer has to do custom set up to get the system to work, something is wrong with either the product or company as a whole.
i mean, it's not like they don't have a history of design flaws in first gen brakes or anything. remember the recall of their first gen road disc brakes? :rofl:

also, from what I can gather so far, it sounds like there are some minor, but crucial, differences between the bleed process for the mavens and their existing brakes.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,967
13,220
i mean, it's not like they don't have a history of design flaws in first gen brakes or anything. remember the recall of their first gen road disc brakes? :rofl:

also, from what I can gather so far, it sounds like there are some minor, but crucial, differences between the bleed process for the mavens and their existing brakes.
First gen codes were terrible. My current code rsc's and old guides have had no issues. Nor did the ancient set of Elixir CR Mag's I had for 10ish years.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,024
1,154
El Lay
To be fair, I had OEM Code RS brakes off a capra complete that were fine and dependable with little maintenance required… the problem was they had way less power than (working) 2 pot Shimanos.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,165
372
Roanoke, VA
I still have g1 and g2 code calipers attached to juicy levers and elixir levers that function as well as they did when they were new.
The G2 code caliper on non-swing link guide master cylinders, good fluid and thick rotors is my favorite brake setup at the moment for my trail and trials bikes.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,387
825
My experience with Sram brakes:
- The first gen Juicy7 made by Formula (?) in 2006 were fantastic. I still have a set in perfect working condition on my commuter.
- The Juicy7 from 2007 were meh.
- I still run a set of Guide RSC from 2018. They are great brakes. Not the most powerful, but adequate and extremely reliable and easy to bleed.
- I have a set of G2 RSC from 2022, but I am still on the stock resin pads. Works OK, but I can't wait to replace the pads to metallic.
- I chose to go with a set of Code RSC for my ongoing trailbike build (finger crossed).
- I couldn't resist and I just pulled the trigger on a set of Maven "Van Halen Special Edition kit". (Fingers and toes crossed). Will report back next season.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
More thoughts on the Sharks: they remain really grabby, haven't had any vibration or warping issues. What I have found is that my Hayes metallic (copper colored) pads screech like a banshee whenever they get a bit wet & muddy, but the Hayes organic (black) pads stay silent. Strangely, I didn't have the screeching when I ran HS2s with the metallics, but they also didn't feel nearly as good. I think I'm just going to suck it up and put on a set of organics (I have several pairs that I scored super cheap on PB).
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
Crosspost from TGR:

I've got a couple brake questions. I'm running Dominion A4s on both my enduro bike and ebike, both recently got Galfer Shark 203s front/rear. The enduro bike has been running the Hayes organic pads (black/106), plenty of power, nice and quiet even when wet. The ebike has been running the metallic (copper/100) pads which were fine in the summer. I do a lot of riding where I'm on short, steep trails that require near constant braking for 1-2 minutes, but I'm not particularly heavy (170ish ready to ride).

1) I noticed a while back that my mounting bolts were digging into the tops of the caliper tabs, asymmetrically, when I wasn't using cup/cone washers. I added those to all brakes. Since the marks are already there, I can't really tell if that fixed it. Was this most likely happening due to frame alignment or caliper finish (my guess is caliper finish)? I'd never had that issue prior to the Dominions, and never used cup & cones before, just flat washers.

2) How do you counter the change in lever throw as pads wear? With a fresh set of pads and 2.0mm thick rotors, there is almost no space between pads and rotors, and the lever throw is very short & sharp. By the time pads get to be about half worn, I feel like it doubles. I find myself fiddling with the reach adjust of the levers every few rides to get the left/right side feeling the same as the pads wear at different rates. Are there any other brake systems that don't have this issue, or have a better way to counter it that messing with reach? When I ran Code RSCs I handled it with the Contact adjust, but the Hayes Contact adjust seems to only move the contact in (default is all the way out).

3) on the ebike, I was getting a lot of howling on muddy rides with the Hayes metallic (copper, 100) pads. I just swapped it over to the black 106 pads, which silenced the front, but the rear was still giving me noise (although less bad). I'll pull the rear rotor again, sand/isopropyl it again, and sand the rear pads. What grit sandpaper do you use for cleaning rotors? What do you use on pads?

4) I've had other issues with the Hayes that are mildly annoying (seem to develop sticky pistons about once a year), but I really love how light the lever free stroke feels, and the amount of power on tap. In terms of the Blister Brake Shootout terms, I don't think I have particularly strong feelings about Lever Throw, and would probably be OK with a softer Bite Point. I have previously owned XTs, MT7s, and Code RSCs. My issues with the XTs are the wandering bite point and the on/off feel (although I get used to that). The MT7s were impossible to keep aligned with the 4 independent pads, and the Free Stroke was too firm. I loved the Code bleed system, found the power OK with the right pads, used the contact adjust often, but found the firm Free Stroke was tiring. I think the only other readily available brake that I haven't tried is the DH-R Evos (ignoring Mavens since it sounds like the Free Stroke is like Codes). Anyone gone from Dominions to TRPs or vice versa, and is it something I should really consider trying? Do the TRPs have the same issue with changing lever throw as pads wear? To reiterate, when the Hayes are freshly serviced with pads at ~80%, they feel amazing. My gripes basically boil down to when the pads are in the other extremes (brand new or at ~30%), and how I've had to replace pistons in 2/4 of my units.