Frankenbrakes and brake improvement discussion
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I have some from Avid, the package is so big it will last me 1000 years if not more.
Thanks, I went for the same oil I use on my chain. By the way, the ball joint pointed by the arrow is also outside the hydraulic system
No.
Maybe it's time for a rebuild? You can remove the lever blade without needing to bleed the system
Yeah I meant the seals on the piston after that. Hayes told me a dab of grease on the end of the ball joint. I used DOT grease because it was close but I'm sure something else would work too, like Slick Honey.I have some from Avid, the package is so big it will last me 1000 years if not more.
Thanks, I went for the same oil I use on my chain. By the way, the ball joint pointed by the arrow is also outside the hydraulic system
When 1 of my levers was getting sticky, it was also a bit noisy. I replaced the bearings first, then greased the ball end, and finally cleaned and greased the piston seals. The last one did the trick - there was a tiny bit of grit stuck on one of the seals.
Has anyone tested Cura 4s with the new-ish FCS lever? They claim it increases leverage and some reviews indicate it provides more power along with being slightly longer, but I can't seem to find much info aside from the NSMB review. Anyone know how much it changes the leverage and if it's a big improvement?
Also, if anyone wants to add Intend Trinity to the spreadsheet: they claim 17mm pistons, 9.5mm master, and mechanical leverage of 7.3 with overall of 46.78:1. I haven't verified on mine, though.
Joking aside, I seem to recall Hayes telling me you could remove the lever and lightly grease the pivot. I never tested that, though. I definitely remember how irritating it was, so you aren't alone. Maybe call Hayes and see what they suggest.
Also, if anyone wants to add Intend Trinity to the spreadsheet: they claim 17mm pistons, 9.5mm master, and mechanical leverage of 7.3 with overall of 46.78:1. I haven't verified on mine, though.
Yes, I had this problem on one set. I don't think I ever solved it, instead I put them on my wife's bike and it helps me keep track of her in the woods
Joking aside, I seem to recall Hayes telling me you could remove the lever and lightly grease the pivot. I never tested that, though. I definitely remember how irritating it was, so you aren't alone. Maybe call Hayes and see what they suggest.
I'm not really annoyed by it, but yeah I'll message them and see or just lube pivot.Has anyone tested Cura 4s with the new-ish FCS lever? They claim it increases leverage and some reviews indicate it provides more power along with being slightly longer, but I can't seem to find much info aside from the NSMB review. Anyone know how much it changes the leverage and if it's a big improvement?
Also, if anyone wants to add Intend Trinity to the spreadsheet: they claim 17mm pistons, 9.5mm master, and mechanical leverage of 7.3 with overall of 46.78:1. I haven't verified on mine, though.
Yes, I had this problem on one set. I don't think I ever solved it, instead I put them on my wife's bike and it helps me keep track of her in the woods
Joking aside, I seem to recall Hayes telling me you could remove the lever and lightly grease the pivot. I never tested that, though. I definitely remember how irritating it was, so you aren't alone. Maybe call Hayes and see what they suggest.
I was flicking them out of habit yesterday, and a buddy was looking around asking if anyone else can see the bird chirping nearby
Hayes CS is really quick to respond in my experience.I'm not really annoyed by it, but yeah I'll message them and see or just lube pivot.
I was flicking them out of habit yesterday, and a buddy was looking around asking if anyone else can see the bird chirping nearby
No, but pad rattle is rattly
Mine are still squeak and rattle—free.
I need to try and bend out the spring clip thingamabobmajiggerator
I run 4 pairs, and so far none of them squeak or have any kind of issue.
Did anyone ever try formula cura levers with magura calipers?
Ive got one cura 4 that works great!
And one with lazy pistons... even full disassemble, clean and rebleed and still lazy as fook!
Hows pad retraction on the mt calipers?
Ive got one cura 4 that works great!
And one with lazy pistons... even full disassemble, clean and rebleed and still lazy as fook!
Hows pad retraction on the mt calipers?
Mt5 have decent pad retraction, definitely more than Formula on the Cura 2 (I don't know if the 4 differ from the 2 in that matter? Probably not)
Mt7 have less pad retraction than Mt5.
Magura can have lazy piston too. I have had it and manage to mitigate it. There is no spare parts available from magura. Formula on the other hand usually has plenty of spare parts listed. Did you try to get new seals and maybe even new pistons for your Cura caliper?
I'd tag the lack of response to insufficient oil movement rather than lazy pistons. The MC's oil pushing capacity is OK for two-piston calipers, but it's simply not enough for the 4-pot ones. This gets worse as the pads wear out. I've seen Cura 4s with 50% pad wear getting spongy AF and no bleed would get them back to the original tight lever feel.
Aren't Cura DOT versus mineral in Magura?
Is it the rear that's bad?
Like happymtb suggested, it's worth actually replacing the caliper seals - they deform and change in durometer over time which affects retraction and lever feel/response. The pistons should be replaced with the seals if the pistons are non-metal. I'd try it before ditching, often makes a noticeable difference. It is an art to get the new ones in though (if you think the old ones are tight...), take your time.
Not to dismiss the issue slimshady mentioned but if you're happy with one of the brakes (and have new pads) there's likely a problem with the other.
As for the magura caliper, going from 4x18mm -> 4x17mm...
Hayes Dominions
I kind of struggle to get them right...
I have a pair on my bikepark bike on 203mm Magura storm rotors. (I don't think my pads or rotors are worn out.) The front brake had an irregular bite point, not too often but just enough to be noticed. The lever stroke could get shorter now and then. Thankfully not longer à la Shimano!
Bleeding only the lever did not help much. I know laziness can only take you so far...
I later broke down the front lever to molecules. Did not find anything strange like signs of wear, discolouration or small debris. Put everything back together and did a proper bleed. The front feels now alright.
After talking to a riding buddy on Dominions too, we conclude that the lever stroke on my brakes was quite long. I worked on improving that in my shed, it felt better but after 2 days at the bikepark I am back were I was... I used both possible ways to shorten the stroke: turning the adjusting screw inbord the lever and also adjusting the link between the lever and the piston. I might I have gone too far and moved the piston seal past the timing port... How would one notice that?
If anyone has advice, I would appreciate! These brake enjoy a kind of solid reputation even if I have seen some complaints on the brake nerding thread on Vitalmtb (https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/nerding-out-brakes-shall-we-not-another-tech-deraliment)
I kind of struggle to get them right...
I have a pair on my bikepark bike on 203mm Magura storm rotors. (I don't think my pads or rotors are worn out.) The front brake had an irregular bite point, not too often but just enough to be noticed. The lever stroke could get shorter now and then. Thankfully not longer à la Shimano!
Bleeding only the lever did not help much. I know laziness can only take you so far...
I later broke down the front lever to molecules. Did not find anything strange like signs of wear, discolouration or small debris. Put everything back together and did a proper bleed. The front feels now alright.
After talking to a riding buddy on Dominions too, we conclude that the lever stroke on my brakes was quite long. I worked on improving that in my shed, it felt better but after 2 days at the bikepark I am back were I was... I used both possible ways to shorten the stroke: turning the adjusting screw inbord the lever and also adjusting the link between the lever and the piston. I might I have gone too far and moved the piston seal past the timing port... How would one notice that?
If anyone has advice, I would appreciate! These brake enjoy a kind of solid reputation even if I have seen some complaints on the brake nerding thread on Vitalmtb (https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/nerding-out-brakes-shall-we-not-another-tech-deraliment)
I can’t remember exactly how I did mine, honestly, but I got a great bleed in the end. I want to say I used an open syringe at the top with a connected syringe at the bottom, and pushed/pulled back and forth. I think I closed the top/master, then, as quickly as possible closed the bottom. I think with an open syringe at the top, the oil drained out too fast below. Either way, it’s stupid that they don’t have a bleed valve and I hate it. I have to bleed mine again after disconnecting internal routed lines and I’m dreading it. I’ll let you know if I figure out a solution…I just remember these being essentially perfect- which is hard to do on any brake.
That makes sense, at least it won't be sucking in air as it's leaking out fluid from the open syringe up top. I can't figure any other way to do it, if I close the top first, fluid still comes out the caliper and I'm pretty sure air goes in.
That seems to have helped a lot, they seem nice and crisp with a normal bite point now. Won't know for sure till I'm out on the trail again on this bike, but all seems good.
The magura vids make no sense. The non-threading top syringe seems asinine, pumping the lever just seems to bring air in from that push-to-seal interface. Their entire bleed and closing of ports sequence of taking the caliper off the bike and raising it above the lever is just asinine. Even without internally routed cables, that would be a big pain in the ass and with, it's simply impossible.
But seems good now. These are my replacements for the shimano on the race bike and yes, these are indeed made of cheese.
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I more or less follow what Magura shows in terms of elevating the caliper above the lever. For the front caliper it's obviously pretty easy. For the rear, I have the bike in a repair stand and just rotate it to raise the caliper above the lever. There's typically enough slack in the brake hose that if you unbolt the caliper, you can raise/lower it a few inches to push the last of the air out without making too much of a mess.
It is asinine though, no argument there.
I remember struggling with air intrusion quite a bit...not sure I remember how or where- whether it was air from the upper smooth syringe when pulling at the bottom, or I think it may have actually been the lower syringe actually pulling bubbles from the shitty seal it made with the caliper. I vaguely recall having the upper syringe filled with fluid and just going back and forth until it was pretty much completely resolved, and having to be pretty slow and smooth.
I don't think I moved my calipers- just rotated the master horizontal and removing the pads, back and forth with the syringes, and occasional pumping and flicking of the lever to release bubbles. I will have to do this again to shorten my hoses
I just bled my front Magura MT5 brake yesterday. I followed the procedure in the Magura manual, which is basically what Sandwich outlined above. At the end, rather than removing the caliper, I just rotated the bike in the stand to get the caliper higher than the lever, which minimized any fluid leakage out of the caliper port. But the caliper definitely has to be higher than the lever to disconnect the syringe or else you lose a ton of fluid and therefore introduce air.
Early 2024 season report on my SRAM brakes:
The Code RSC are working fine. I like them a lot.
Based on the few rides I have on them, I'd say the Maven are simply spectacular. Very impressive braking power, but very manageable at the same time. I never felt they were too powerful. I can imagine they could be overkill on a short travel trailbike or for a very lightweight rider...but I absolutely love them on my 180/165 Enduro bike. I am honestly surprised by how much more control they provide. I would not hesitate to buy them again.
I'm trying to picture that...but that's a lot of rotation. My stand is broken now and I can't "rotate" it any more...but I think I have the idea now. I got the rear SOLID and just went out for a decent ride and I need to get a little more air out of the front, but I'm pretty sure on what I need to do, because I did the rear a little differently and decided to see what difference there would be.
It seems a huge oversight though...given the prevalence of internal routing now and it's just a PITA to undo the caliper and screw up all your centering and so on in the first place. But yeah, I got all the tools now and I got the confidence for it. I hate to have to call another company idiots...but yeah, no bleed-port like shimano/hope that you can close off. That's just bizarre.
When I had Maguras, I never did the open syringe up top - I left the plunger in. I'd unmount the caliper from frame so that I could hold it so the bleed port was facing up, then disconnect the hose and seal it up. Then the MC syringe I'd give a tiny bit of pressure to compensate for any loss, then remove it.
For the rear, I worked the lever up and down a bit and got more air out of it, and again it's solid, but I didn't pull bubbles out of the top with a top-syringe, just used it as a top-funnel.
So I'm going to hook up the two syringes, makes sure the bottom is extra full, fill, work back and forth with both to suck out air, work lever blade, etc. Then, I can disconnect the top syringe in between the fitting and the syringe, remove plunger, re-attach and push some more fluid through, giving me enough to let it drain while I close the bottom port. I'm thinking this is the ticket. Ideally, I can find a way without this "take the caliper off the frame" bullshit, but with my rear success, I'm pretty confident.
Some guy on Vital showed me how to change the deadstroke effectively on Dominions:
www.vitalmtb.com
Basically you take the lever off, loosen the tiny grub holding the ball-end in place, and screw the ball end towards the pivot. If you screw it all the way until it touches, then back it off so it barely clears, it makes the free stroke feel as short (to me) as Shimanos. 1 of my 4 levers was definitely set different from the factory than the rest.
Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment
Let's start with some screenshots taken from a few brake tests of Enduro mtb magazine, dyno numbers, and overall performance on the dyno, tests are from 2016-18-24, not sure how the same brakes have different results, see hope tech 3 making 73nm with the same lever force, and 102 on another test,
Basically you take the lever off, loosen the tiny grub holding the ball-end in place, and screw the ball end towards the pivot. If you screw it all the way until it touches, then back it off so it barely clears, it makes the free stroke feel as short (to me) as Shimanos. 1 of my 4 levers was definitely set different from the factory than the rest.
I did that too. It didn't take very long before the throw got longer again... Let us know how it holds for you.Some guy on Vital showed me how to change the deadstroke effectively on Dominions:
Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment
Let's start with some screenshots taken from a few brake tests of Enduro mtb magazine, dyno numbers, and overall performance on the dyno, tests are from 2016-18-24, not sure how the same brakes have different results, see hope tech 3 making 73nm with the same lever force, and 102 on another test,
Basically you take the lever off, loosen the tiny grub holding the ball-end in place, and screw the ball end towards the pivot. If you screw it all the way until it touches, then back it off so it barely clears, it makes the free stroke feel as short (to me) as Shimanos. 1 of my 4 levers was definitely set different from the factory than the rest.
Just tried this and seems to have worked. Thanks for the heads up.Some guy on Vital showed me how to change the deadstroke effectively on Dominions:
Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment
Let's start with some screenshots taken from a few brake tests of Enduro mtb magazine, dyno numbers, and overall performance on the dyno, tests are from 2016-18-24, not sure how the same brakes have different results, see hope tech 3 making 73nm with the same lever force, and 102 on another test,
Basically you take the lever off, loosen the tiny grub holding the ball-end in place, and screw the ball end towards the pivot. If you screw it all the way until it touches, then back it off so it barely clears, it makes the free stroke feel as short (to me) as Shimanos. 1 of my 4 levers was definitely set different from the factory than the rest.
Yeah, so just to confuse things... I got a ride in after fiddling with that, and the heat buildup caused the piston to advance past the timing port, so that the rear brake locked up. I emailed Hayes CS asking for what the factory setting should be so I can go back to that, and they said 34.4mm.
I'm guessing that you might be able to cheat that distance a little bit shorter, but running it fully inboard is too much. And also my rear brake probably needs fresh DOT in it if a 2 minute brake-dragging descent was enough to move the bite point that much.
I'm guessing that you might be able to cheat that distance a little bit shorter, but running it fully inboard is too much. And also my rear brake probably needs fresh DOT in it if a 2 minute brake-dragging descent was enough to move the bite point that much.
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haha. Ok good to know. I’ll reset it.
Thanks @Andeh for the feedback. I was wondering about that too in an earlier post.
I suppose that your master seal was already past the timing port after you adjusted the ball end. You basically made a closed braking system... I did the same! It felt good after wrenching in the shed but felt very soft after 4 hours on the bike rack driving to the bikepark.
It would be interesting to know how to get the master seal just before the timing port.
I suppose that your master seal was already past the timing port after you adjusted the ball end. You basically made a closed braking system... I did the same! It felt good after wrenching in the shed but felt very soft after 4 hours on the bike rack driving to the bikepark.
It would be interesting to know how to get the master seal just before the timing port.