[canadmos]

If the Mavens have the bleed port thing on the calipers, it makes life much easier.

I'd still say ditch the Shimanos all together and be done with worrying about bleeding and whatnot.

I had XT brakes for like a decade. Always something wrong with them or there was constant worry in the spring whether they'd work or not.

Second season on these Hayes Dominions and haven't had to do anything to them, other than replace the pads. And that's with some heavy abuse by this heavyweight Dot fluid isn't the best, but it's not that bad. Even Shimano mineral oil isn't that great of a substance.

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/compliance/sds/HYDRAULIC%20MINERAL%20OIL-202206-ENG-CLP.pdf

 

[Gary]

Well, what do you think of the sram bleed process? It looks a bit tricky to do solo (with one thumb barely usable).

You seem to have completely sidestepped the questions I asked. But... anyway
Bleeding Maven's can be a little bit more time consuming than some brakes to get set-up right. But no more difficult really. Plus bleeding edge and the sram syringes with the tap to open/close should make life easier for you. Back when released the tastelessAF BLOOD n CUM splattered calliper limited edition versions came with a full workshop standard SRAM bleed kit.
Everything about bleeding Hope is a far worse experience and persoanlly I'd say Dominions are fiddlier than Mavens to do too. and those caliper alignment grub screws honestly just don't really add anything useful for me.

I like the idea of still being able to do a Shimano-esque instant lever bleed.

You realise you can do that with any brake? and it doesn't even need a bleed cup (Shimano included)

I have not tried any sram mineral oil brake lever yet.

Mineral oil doesn't make a lever feel any different.

 

[canadmos]

You seem to have completely sidestepped the questions I asked. But... anyway
Bleeding Maven's can be a little bit more time consuming than some brakes to get set-up right. But no more difficult really. Plus bleeding edge and the sram syringes with the tap to open/close should make life easier for you. Back when released the tastelessAF BLOOD n CUM splattered calliper limited edition versions came with a full workshop standard SRAM bleed kit.
Everything about bleeding Hope is a far worse experience and persoanlly I'd say Dominions are fiddlier than Mavens to do too. and those caliper alignment grub screws honestly just don't really add anything useful for me.

You realise you can do that with any brake? and it doesn't even need a bleed cup (Shimano included)

Mineral oil doesn't make a lever feel any different.

For all the shit Sram gets and sometimes deserves, that bleeding edge port is spectacular.

I wish all brakes had that thing.

I think those Kaha ones do too? All the more reason to hit up nick for a set.

I wonder why we don't see it on the lever side? Less worry of making a mess? Packaging in the lever?

 

[Jm_]

How about these brakes? Unknown vendor for me and looks like an underground version of Lewis 6 pots.

2x 24mm pistons
Front Brake Disc diam: 250mm - thickness: 3mm
Rear brake disc diam: 228mm - thickness: 3mm

(TALARIA) SET FRONT/REAR Racing Brake System 4 Pistons - VOLAR SPORT

The new Volar Sport braking systems were created to meet the needs of the new e-bikes and Dirt bikes with electric motors which require performance and reliability, but at the same time also lightness to maximize the efficiency and therefore the energy saving of these vehicles designed and...

www.e-volvendo.com

But damn, send me those rotors and brake adapters, I'll rock it.

 

[Jm_]

You seem to have completely sidestepped the questions I asked. But... anyway
Bleeding Maven's can be a little bit more time consuming than some brakes to get set-up right. But no more difficult really. Plus bleeding edge and the sram syringes with the tap to open/close should make life easier for you. Back when released the tastelessAF BLOOD n CUM splattered calliper limited edition versions came with a full workshop standard SRAM bleed kit.
Everything about bleeding Hope is a far worse experience and persoanlly I'd say Dominions are fiddlier than Mavens to do too. and those caliper alignment grub screws honestly just don't really add anything useful for me.

You realise you can do that with any brake? and it doesn't even need a bleed cup (Shimano included)

Mineral oil doesn't make a lever feel any different.

Hope bleeds easy with the metal cup, you can bleed the lever like shimano.

Magura...that's a whole different depth of hell that no one should have to experience on purpose. They don't even have a fucking valve.

 

[jstuhlman]

I also have (3) sets on Curas in use.
This stuff does wonders for the caliper pistons, if the seals are not too far aged.

TS-2-34-04 compliant grease

View attachment 216266

having just pulled my three year old curas apart and rebuilt, wish i'd seen this a day or two ago! bit will order some for future work. better than slick honey?

 

[Gary]

Hope bleeds easy with the metal cup, you can bleed the lever like shimano.

LOL
You mean the metal cup that you have to remove the lever reservoir cap held in place with two (often rounded) tiny torx screws just to have to attach another bolt on dummy reservoir cap which has a threading for the stupid metal cup?
Not even getting to the extra faff of having to advance the pistons so the caliper actually fills enough.
Yeah. I know you guys have made up your own completely different meanings for English words and sayings. But I didn't realise "easy" needed added to the list.

 

[Jm_]

LOL
You mean the metal cup that you have to remove the lever reservoir cap held in place with two (often rounded) tiny torx screws just to have to attach another bolt on dummy reservoir cap which has a threading for the stupid metal cup?
Not even getting to the extra faff of having to advance the pistons so the caliper actually fills enough.
Yeah. I know you guys have made up your own completely different meanings for English words and sayings. But I didn't realise "easy" needed added to the list.

Relative to Magura...it's easy.

 

[Andeh]

I've fitted quite a few Mavens. So can possibly explain to you what they feel like in use but first I'd need to know which (exact) levers have you tried and what exactly it is you hate about them. and perhaps some examples of what levers you do like the feel of and why.

Not the person you're replying to, but I'm curious from my own point of view as I'm Maven-curious but hesitant to buy just to feel lever in practice on the trail.
XT 8020s - I'm fine with these when they work, but I won't own them until they fix wandering bite point. It takes my brain a day or so to recalibrate pull but I'm fine after that.
MT7s with HC3 levers - got wicked arm pump with these, and hated how fragile they were and how impossible it was to keep all 4 pads from rubbing for more than a single ride.
Code RSC - liked the adjustments and bleed process. Got wicked arm pump, even with 2.0 rotors and upgraded pads.
Dominion A4s (normal levers) - really like the lever feel and power. My only complaints really are the long dead stroke (which I understand is a tradeoff for the light lever feel) and how the front/rear lever feel changes due to differential pad wear. I really only use the Crosshair grub screw as a block after I've aligned the caliper, but not fully torqued (they help prevent rotating the caliper as you get up to full torque).

One thing I've heard about the stiff Maven lever feel is that you can reduce it quite a bit through a proper bleed process / mobilizing pistons, and also by running levers closer to bar (which I prefer regardless for arm pump reasons) and bite point as far in as possible. I've only had a chance to feel levers on 2 pairs of Mavens, one a set of Silvers that had bite point all the way out and felt really stiff, and a pair of Bronze in a shop that felt a bit stiff at first with noticeable breakway into lighter pull. Any truth to this?

 

[toodles]

Ok, so my hands are really fucked. I don’t think I can wait for Shimano’s Saint/whatever brake release for my upcoming Peru trip. Anyone know if it’s possible to make a Shimaven?

Or, conversely, do any of you have Mavens?
I need more power to avoid pain, I think.
(I’m already running 223/203, metallic pads, lever bleed every few rides)

Have you tried the Hayes Dominion A4?

This ^

Switched to Dominions and the combination of super light lever throw and redonkulous power did wonders for my tendonitis pain. Basically a non-issue for me now and I'm hoping to get back to proper racing soon.

 

[Westy]

This ^

Switched to Dominions and the combination of super light lever throw and redonkulous power did wonders for my tendonitis pain. Basically a non-issue for me now and I'm hoping to get back to proper racing soon.

Wrong kind of fluid that you don't have to fuck with every other ride.

 

[boostindoubles]

Rode my buddies bike for a minute, he has 4 pot Sram Codes with 203mm rotors.

Lol those things were junk! I got back on my bike and almost went OTB.

I'm gonna keep building the XT lever w/ Magura 4 pot caliper for my bikes.

 

[Gary]

Which Codes? Which pads? and set up by who?
Code RS or RSC set up properly are far from junk and have plenty power

 

[CarolinaCrawler]

I'm gonna keep building the XT lever w/ Magura 4 pot caliper for my bikes.

I'm putting this together for my downhill bike currently. I had all the parts laying around thought it'd be worth a shot to try it out. I've got the xt levers already, but can't help wondering how it'd be with saint levers too. Maybe that'll be the next thing to try.

 

[boostindoubles]

Which Codes? Which pads? and set up by who?
Code RS or RSC set up properly are far from junk and have plenty power

Beats me! They were terrible compared to my Shigura setup.

 

[djjohnr]

I'm running 2 sets of Magura MT5s and 2 sets of Dominion A4s on different bikes. Both have plenty of power, neither have been particularly problematic for me to bleed, although the MT5s seem to have more places for bubbles to hide. The flatter lever profile of the MT5s feels a bit better to me.

 

[Subversion_Garage]

I've got the xt levers already, but can't help wondering how it'd be with saint levers too.

All of the Servowave levers are going to basically feel the same.

 

[Milleratio]

I wonder why there’s so much discussion on bicycle brakes underperformance and the little strange issues compared to mx brakes? #justasking

I’m currently running Saints on DH bike and Dominions on ebike. They seem to do mostly whats expected except Saint freeplay going zero when braking long and running over shaky parts of the track.

Couple of days ago I ride rental Commencal Supreme V5 in Les deux Alpes and it had TRP/normal Tektro 4P brakes. In the long descent along 666 and Venosc I had to stop two times just to refresh my fingers. The performance was so bad that you really had to aggressively pull the lever. I could still ride the track but I wonder how it would have been with good brakes with new OEM pads.

 

[Jm_]

I wonder why there’s so much discussion on bicycle brakes underperformance and the little strange issues compared to mx brakes? #justasking

I’m currently running Saints on DH bike and Dominions on ebike. They seem to do mostly whats expected except Saint freeplay going zero when braking long and running over shaky parts of the track.

Couple of days ago I ride rental Commencal Supreme V5 in Les deux Alpes and it had TRP/normal Tektro 4P brakes. In the long descent along 666 and Venosc I had to stop two times just to refresh my fingers. The performance was so bad that you really had to aggressively pull the lever. I could still ride the track but I wonder how it would have been with good brakes with new OEM pads.

life is too short to fight the bike downhill

 

[rideit]

I wonder why there’s so much discussion on bicycle brakes underperformance and the little strange issues compared to mx brakes?

Because of the weight/cost equation, mostly.

I’m sure this has been discussed, but do any of you run the expensive Galfer pads? My World Cup pro mechanic bud recommends them highly.

 

[Andeh]

Because of the weight/cost equation, mostly.

I’m sure this has been discussed, but do any of you run the expensive Galfer pads? My World Cup pro mechanic bud recommends them highly.

You mean the green ones? Yeah, they're very good but don't last long. I'd suggest running them on front brakes, and running their purple (ebike) ones in the rear.

 

[Rockland]

having just pulled my three year old curas apart and rebuilt, wish i'd seen this a day or two ago! bit will order some for future work. better than slick honey?

Yes. It's the right stuff for the job. It's very thick. Never tried Slick Honey on a caliper - I'm just imagining it not staying there under any elevated temp.

 

[6thElement]

On pistons I use the SRAM DOT grease.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

On pistons I use the SRAM DOT grease.

SRAM DOT grease is good on DOT brakes only.
For brakes with mineral oil, the red rubber grease is what you need

 

[Andeh]

So I think I learned a trick from the Maven bleed manual that works on other brakes (like Dominions) that have a tendency to develop a softer feeling bite point over a few rides, even with a good bleed and good condition pads. They say this can develop when dragging brake a lot and not braking hard enough (I felt seen ), so that the pad wear outpaces piston advancement. Their solution is to run reach adjust all the way out (furthest from bar), then squeeze the lever a few times. It will immediately firm up. Then return reach to your preferred position.

That said, I did decide to pull the trigger on a set of Mavens to try with all the Labor Day sales. I know that if I've been thinking about it for a while like I have, I've got to at least try them.

 

[Flo33]

Formula quietly released an update of their nice 2-piece rotors. Got the 203 version incoming. Will report on actual weight and looks.

 

[two-one]

Formula quietly released an update of their nice 2-piece rotors. Got the 203 version incoming. Will report on actual weight and looks.

Those look very nice!

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Formula quietly released an update of their nice 2-piece rotors. Got the 203 version incoming. Will report on actual weight and looks.

Have you seen info about the thickness of those?

 

[Flo33]

Have you seen info about the thickness of those?

The print on the spider reads 1.65 min thickness, so I guess 1.80-1.85? Will measure them when they arrive and I'm home again.

 

[Jm_]

The print on the spider reads 1.65 min thickness, so I guess 1.80-1.85? Will measure them when they arrive and I'm home again.

So they are like other companies rotors from 15 years ago?

 

[Westy]

Because of the weight/cost equation, mostly.

Also pad clearance. You can't have large amounts of mechanical advantage and dead travel. It helps that motorcycle brakes have thick rotors with very little warping and need pretty much zero clearance. The Brembo Stylemas on my KTM can easily bring 600lbs to a stop from triple digits with a single finger. But they are always rubbing, you just never notice it with all the weight and horsepower.

Bikes need pad clearance and that limits the available mechanical advantage.

 

[Flo33]

The print on the spider reads 1.65 min thickness, so I guess 1.80-1.85? Will measure them when they arrive and I'm home again.

Here it is:

180 g
analogue gauge says 2.0 mm thick
Ti mounting bolts

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Thanks @Flo33

 

[Andeh]

So, I got 2 solid rides (~10,000' descending) on the Mavens, and have some thoughts on them vs. Dominions. I'm running them with the same Galfer Shark 203 rotors I had on the Dominions, with the stock SRAM organic pads. I wiped the rotors down with isopropyl alcohol and a paper towel to remove old Hayes sintered pad residue before I bedded in the SRAM pads. I followed the SRAM bleed & piston massage manual exactly, using the SRAM pro bleed kit.

* I like the SRAM bleed procedure better, coupled with O-rings on the bleed adapters. It basically has you constantly creating a vacuum at the MC, which really encourages removal of micro bubbles.
* the extra lever force that the internet complains about is overstated, if you roll the contact adjuster all the way in. No arm pump on any of the 5x 1,000' runs I did yesterday.
* the extra stopping power feels roughly 25% more than the Dominions to me. I adjusted to it pretty quickly, and noticed that I was able to brake later and for shorter duration on trails that I know extremely well. My suspension felt like it was working better because I was spending less actual time braking. Plenty of modulation control riding steep trails that were dry leaves over loose dust over hardpack.
* didn't feel any change in lever feel, fade, etc. after the first bleed, but the right/rear did feel a little bit softer with contact dialed all the way in like the left/front. I'm right handed, so it could just be that my right hand is stronger, so the perceived resistance is less. Regardless of why this was, I appreciated having a functioning contact adjuster so that I could make the left/right feel exactly the same to me, with the brake levers at exactly the same distance. On the trail, I ended up making the right/rear slightly softer so that it was harder to lock up/skid the rear.
* the overall (mostly aesthetic) build quality just seems more refined than the Hayes. Everything feels solid, well aligned, with no rough casting edges or uneven paint.
* because they were brand new brakes, and because I wanted to shorten the front hose another 2", I rebled both brakes after my second ride. Again, I appreciated the vacuum-centric approach because by the end of the second round, I felt quite confident that I'd fully degassed the mineral oil in both brakes.
* the SRAM Pro Bleed kit is pricey, nearly as much as a Park Tool one. The syringes are of similar quality, but rely on plastic twist lock fittings on the hose (not nice metal ones like Park). However, the top of the plunger handle is deliberately shaped to be flat so that you can easily remove all air from the syringes after you fill them. And another negative is the little bottle of mineral oil the pro kit comes with has too small an opening to fit the Bleeding Edge fitting into it to fill, so you have to fill it with a normal fitting hose, then swap hose to the one with the Bleeding Edge. On the other hand, I think I like the shorter hoses the SRAM kit runs. And the SRAM kit doesn't include the handy syringe holders (I stole one from my Park DOT bleed kit - GASP!!!) or the nice hard plastic storage case. For as much as I paid for it, I probably should have just gotten the Park Mineral kit with Bleeding Edge fitting, and a separate (large) bottle of Maxima mineral oil.

 

[troy]

So, I got 2 solid rides (~10,000' descending) on the Mavens ...

How would You describe brake lever feel? More like shimano or like Sram Codes (or guides or whatever)?

 

[sethimus]

1000 freedom units are now considered a long downhill?

 

[Andeh]

How would You describe brake lever feel? More like shimano or like Sram Codes (or guides or whatever)?

Feels Code-like, but lighter. When I ran Codes, I think I ran the contact adjust fairly far out to try and create more braking power/bite, so they consequently felt fairly stiff. Mavens lever pull feels like it almost has kind of a divot or hump of force you break through at the very start, very brief, then it's actually pretty light & smooth. That initial bit of breakaway force is the highest. You don't need to pull very hard on them after contact to fully lock up, but there's good feedback of what's going on at the wheel. Hard to say if the free stroke is longer or shorter, given that I'm running the contact adjust differently.

I feel like the lever return spring is similar to but a little snappier than Shimano. Finger force to get to the contact zone - hard to say, probably similar, maybe a tad stiffer, but a little bit longer modulation zone. But I think the modulation zone got a little bit shorter from Codes, closer to Shimano - but definitely more Code-like than Shimano-like.

 

[Andeh]

1000 freedom units are now considered a long downhill?

It is when you're 10 minutes from San Francisco and 1 minute from the Pacific ocean.

 

[Da Peach]

1000 freedom units are now considered a long downhill?

 

[Jm_]

It is when you're 10 minutes from San Francisco and 1 minute from the Pacific ocean.

And ur in a crack