[narlus]

JBP's post prompted me to start this thread, so here goes.

that was one of the few mtbr threads i've seen recently which i almost felt compelled to partake in.

(http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=160177&page=1&pp=50)

here's my view:

the genie is out of the bottle. grommets w/ big travel bikes (and grommet doesn't necessarily only refer to age in this case) are going to 'freeride', for lack of a better word. they don't get excited about cleaning a tough uphill, or doing an epic ride, or checking their heart rate. they want to drop, jump and push their big rigs uphill so they can do it again. and again. and again. and if they can't find the natural terrain to facilitate this, they will modify or build to suit. seriously, who on this board hasn't seen evidence of this in their local area?

this will happen regardless of whether it's legal or not. sure, some of this population may be swayed to toe the line and not engage in such activities, but clearly not all.

so what are bikers to do? i think the best solution is to get an area for these types of activities to occur w/o everyone else getting excited. not everyone either lives close to a ski area, or has a large chunk of private land near them. so regardless of the ramifications or dubiousness legality of unsanctioned trail cutting/stunt building, it will continue to occur.

i think the best bet is to be like NEMBA and either work w/ land managers and/or obtain a chunk of land where this can occur.

 

[ito]

I say we shoot everyone with a single chain ring and more than 5 inches of rear wheel travel.

I know the hikers and equestrians are with me!

The Ito

 

[BurlyShirley]

I say just let it go where its going to go. Eventually everyone is going to be riding longer travel bikes as the technology makes it possible to keep them light, and as the bikes progress, so will the aptitude of riders. The trails will reflect that. In 10 years, you'll be able to bomb DH and race XC on the same bike. Hell, you almost can now with bikes like the SC Nomad and a few others. You're always going to have your daredevils who need something more, and their clones, but riding is just changing. The roadies with knobbie tires are either going to have to adapt or get some baggy shorts.

 

[Skookum]

I say just let it go where its going to go. Eventually everyone is going to be riding longer travel bikes as the technology makes it possible to keep them light, and as the bikes progress, so will the aptitude of riders.

i'd agree and i'll go further in saying that time is here and now. i.e. platform shock technology...

i was most glad to see my PNW bikey brother chime in with a quality post resounding with reason.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=1518631&postcount=2

While i also appreciate the message in this post as well, albeit a tad more brash in tone.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=1522158&postcount=13

Unity, education, problem solving, participating, advocacy, as a mt. biker i have hope we'll be alright.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

There's a whole independent set of folks up here who are pursuing freeride trail development. They convinced the Bolton ski area to let them put in trails, and I see sections spring up in various places.

There's a lot of natural terrain in these parts nasty enough so that not much in way of infrastructure is needed. So far, none of the outlaw building has resulted in open conflict, and I hope it doesn't.

I have built up some level of dissatisfaction putting in hours of work on what I regard as granny trails - let's take out those saplings and that four inch log...

 

[jimmydean]

There has been a lot of work done in Falls City that is all approved before anything is started. The work there is great and getting better. I havn't been there in a long time and look forward to Spring.

I'm all for natural stuff if it has good lines. We have a lot of trails here that are fine just the way they are. Falls City is buikt with stunts in mind because there isn't anything like it around here and trips to Canada get expensive.

 

[skinny mike]

the genie is out of the bottle. grommets w/ big travel bikes (and grommet doesn't necessarily only refer to age in this case) are going to 'freeride', for lack of a better word. they don't get excited about cleaning a tough uphill, or doing an epic ride, or checking their heart rate. they want to drop, jump and push their big rigs uphill so they can do it again. and again. and again. and if they can't find the natural terrain to facilitate this, they will modify or build to suit. seriously, who on this board hasn't seen evidence of this in their local area?

this will happen regardless of whether it's legal or not. sure, some of this population may be swayed to toe the line and not engage in such activities, but clearly not all.

so what are bikers to do? i think the best solution is to get an area for these types of activities to occur w/o everyone else getting excited. not everyone either lives close to a ski area, or has a large chunk of private land near them. so regardless of the ramifications or dubiousness legality of unsanctioned trail cutting/stunt building, it will continue to occur.

i think the best bet is to be like NEMBA and either work w/ land managers and/or obtain a chunk of land where this can occur.

but whats really sad, is how close-minded most freeriding 'grommets' are. they expect everyone to agree to their terms because they are "progressing the sport" and "are the future of mountain biking." wasnt mountain biking in its prime long before the freeriding movement really started to pick up?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

So the old dogs need to nudge the groms when and where they are willing to listen a little - cultural change proceeds glacially, which is, I think, a Good Thing.

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

So the old dogs need to nudge the groms when and where they are willing to listen a little - cultural change proceeds glacially, which is, I think, a Good Thing.

More of a "maturity" thing than a "freeride" thing. I'd say this whole business is an unavoidable byproduct of expanding popularity. [I blame everything on overpopulation ] Like others have said, a little proactive responsibility and all should be well.

Anyone else got that inner war going on between the dirty hippy and the rabble rousing yute? I'm always going back and forth. No skid smooth lines one day, slugs be damned reckless drift the next. I would like to see more backwoods trails opened up to bikes, but I still believe in a bikeless wilderness. There needs to be more of the Third Option.

A touch of Irony for ya ... The Blackrock Unit was saved from logging because it's a spotted owl habbitat. Now it's a freeride haven. Who woulda thunk it?

 

[spacemanspiff06]

JBP's post prompted me to start this thread, so here goes.

that was one of the few mtbr threads i've seen recently which i almost felt compelled to partake in.

(http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=160177&page=1&pp=50)

here's my view:

the genie is out of the bottle. grommets w/ big travel bikes (and grommet doesn't necessarily only refer to age in this case) are going to 'freeride', for lack of a better word. they don't get excited about cleaning a tough uphill, or doing an epic ride, or checking their heart rate. they want to drop, jump and push their big rigs uphill so they can do it again. and again. and again. and if they can't find the natural terrain to facilitate this, they will modify or build to suit. seriously, who on this board hasn't seen evidence of this in their local area?

this will happen regardless of whether it's legal or not. sure, some of this population may be swayed to toe the line and not engage in such activities, but clearly not all.

so what are bikers to do? i think the best solution is to get an area for these types of activities to occur w/o everyone else getting excited. not everyone either lives close to a ski area, or has a large chunk of private land near them. so regardless of the ramifications or dubiousness legality of unsanctioned trail cutting/stunt building, it will continue to occur.

i think the best bet is to be like NEMBA and either work w/ land managers and/or obtain a chunk of land where this can occur.

that would be perfect, but all the big bike clubs hate freeriders, and that will never happen. FRers need to orgainize then selfs and do somthing like that.

edit: ito, people who make no contrabution to socity and go through life trying to piss people off should be shot. (hikers and equestrians will aree with me too.) the most talented, knowelgable, and amicable riders i know ride bikes with single chainrings and >5" of travel. they're also the ones that do the most trail work, come to think of it.

 

[bluebug32]

hmm..interesting. This would make a good article

Thanks for raising the topic

 

[splat]

I say just let it go where its going to go.

That is a bad idea ! because The direction is building rouge trails/stunts , and rouge trails/stunts are just going to get places closed to mt bikes

that would be perfect, but all the big bike clubs hate freeriders, and that will never happen.

That is where you are wrong. the New Englad Mt Bike Association ( 2500+ members ) this past summer built a trail with expert XC and Freeriders in Mind. and it has been recieved quite well ( and some disbelief ) . We are also getting the message across , you have an Idea for a stunt , talk to us , because if you just build it , no matter how good it is , we will take it down.

 

[narlus]

that would be perfect, but all the big bike clubs hate freeriders, and that will never happen. FRers need to orgainize then selfs and do somthing like that.

the problem i see w/ this is that the average age of the typical freerider is say 15-24, so how many of these would you think would get off their ass and get enough energy to organize and work through established channels?

 

[Skookum]

I would like to see more backwoods trails opened up to bikes, but I still believe in a bikeless wilderness.

Sounds like you guys are playing with fire and about to lose some awesome mt. biking trails to me....

 

[sam_little]

In Falls City, Oregon, the Blackrock Freeride Association (organized to build the trails described here), got together with the Oregon Department of Forestry to construct a "mountain bike park" geared almost exclusively to freeriding/downhill. Rather than building and then asking for permission, a few wise (and older) freeriders with grant writing and public admin experience put together a proposal to build on a small scale for demonstrative purposes. I won't get into it too much, as you can check the website (linky).

Anyway, end result after several years is an AMAZING, rider-built and maintained freeride park with a great "image." The nearby town has seen an increase in local income from riders purchasing gas and goods in town, and the riders have a place that is out of the way, free of conflict, with fantastic lines.

"Freeriding" can coexist with the mountain biking "image" so long as it is done through proper channels. Unfortunately, kids don't understand this, nor do they have the capacity and experience to get such projects underway. If older downhillers are frustrated by "grommets" giving them a bad name, HELP! Lots of bikers have experience in public admin and are aware of channels that can be exploited to benefit ALL riders.

The local grommets in the towns near the Blackrock Mountain Bike Park don't build illegal trails anymore; they come to the area we've constructed and help maintain the LEGAL trails. These trails only exist because mature riders wanted a space to ride as much as the kids.

 

[spacemanspiff06]

the problem i see w/ this is that the average age of the typical freerider is say 15-24, so how many of these would you think would get off their ass and get enough energy to organize and work through established channels?

organize and work are not in the 15-24 year old freeriders dictionary. nor established. the issue that we face in roanoke is that there are 20 MAX people that we could organize, and that will not get **** done. espicaly since half of them will not show up.
congrats splat, but i just don't see that happening around here any time soon.

 

[narlus]

sam_little's got the ideal situation going on.

 

[sam_little]

organize and work are not in the 15-24 year old freeriders dictionary. nor established. the issue that we face in roanoke is that there are 20 MAX people that we could organize, and that will not get **** done. espicaly since half of them will not show up.
congrats splat, but i just don't see that happening around here any time soon.

I call BS. 20 people is PLENTY to get something started. We started out with under 10 people coming out to help, usually less than 5. Now that we have an established trail network, one worth travelling to, we have visiting builders come from as far as Central Washington on build days just to be part of the phenomenon. COOL!!

 

[chicodude]

All I have to say is when there is hardly anyone in the area you live in that is into the freeride scene, its hard to get a legit club started with a few heads.

Let the pirate trail continue.

 

[N8 v2.0]

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=161481

 

[urbaindk]

Sounds like the guy who started that thread needs to actually get away from the TV and off his couch and go out and ride with some run of the mill "freeriders" just to find out what the average rider thinks and does. In my experience, most are very mature responsible people and not hell bent on tearing up the country side. A lot of riders I have met are just frustrated and feel marginalized by their local clubs and take matters into their own hands.

The lack of intelligent discourse, name calling, irrational fear of things new and different by people on both sides needs to stop. The real conflict isn't between riders, it's about trail access and those who may wish to restrict it. The actions by any one set of riders effects the impression of nonriders equally. Nonriders really don't have a clue what any of us do nor do they differentiate between our intracyclic struggles.

 

[Castle]

I think the "freeride" movement for lack of better terms, is/will present a problem in the near future especially for the bicycle clubs who have worked hard to get permission for land use. (I think it will become more and more of a problem as this sport grows, in just the passed 2 years, the number of riders have vastly increased, particularly in that 18-24 yr. old crowd)

They'll (bike clubs) just have to work harder, to make it easier on themselves, they will have to promote spots for these riders to ride, so that they don't just go building where ever or whatever they like...... think skateboarding... it happened pretty similar, skateboarding started, no parks, kids skated anywhere they could, city/counties started putting in skateparks here and there and it "helped" by giving skaters a "place" to be.

It's really not that difficult, (sad part) but bad things have to happen to open people's eyes to make things get put into motion.

In the area I live in specifically it's only a matter of time, before some folks (riders) get in trouble for riding where they aren't suppose to be. They ride there because they find it fun/challenging where as the legal trails don't offer that for them in the same capacity.....

There's always gonna be the jackass who just wants to break the law..... Like SamLittle said though, if you give them a place to ride/build, then their energy can be put to positive use.....

just a rant and my .02 cents

 

[Castle]

I call BS. 20 people is PLENTY to get something started. We started out with under 10 people coming out to help, usually less than 5. Now that we have an established trail network, one worth travelling to, we have visiting builders come from as far as Central Washington on build days just to be part of the phenomenon. COOL!!

in his defense, we are in a very narrow minded, redneck area, in South West, Virginia......

I don't see the 20 people he's talking about, and there might be (maybe) 2 of them that would actually put in work towards legality and building....

I think at most there are 5 not 20.. yeah they got bikes but that doesn't mean they'll actually go to meetings or god forbid a trail work day, where you don't even bring your bike, you just work.

so in a way, our own/peers/riders are part of our problem, and if we could get everyone together, join the bike club and make a statement then maybe things would change but I don't forsee that happening. People will get in trouble first, give mountain bikers in the area even more of a bad rap, then try and ask for forgiveness/spot to ride.

I think spaceman, might get an idea now, why I distance myself on these rides or from these riders.... I'd love to move forward not backwards

Our local bike club had to do back flips, give blowjobs and everything else, just to get approval for a connector trail from the parking lot to the rest of the trail system to get riders off the road and out of the residence hair.

http://www.vast-network.org/index.asp connector trail in progress...... This does not interest the local "freeride" crew in the least.....

the only spots around here are off in the woods/hidden and they are few and far between

sorry for my rant, but to me it's frustrating.... I've built illegal trails and they were torn down, I learned and am now looking for a way to make things happen, I have been scouting spots and so on, so that when I do have something to say, I atleast have an idea of where to put such a riding spot..

 

[berkshire_rider]

I think they can definitely co-exist. It doesn't happen overnight, and it ain't easy for some of the above mentioned scenarios, but it can happen. I never understood why people think it's such a chore to come out for trail maintenance days. Using 2-4 hours of a weekend day one time or a couple times a year isn't a big deal. You can even bring along wives, girlfriends, kids, etc.

I actually enjoy doing trail work, and I believe the other regulars in our small group that spend every Tuesday night in the summer moving rocks do as well. We would love to have better participation, but things are what they are. Isn't riding something good that you had a hand in building a good feeling?