[WKC]

Ok. I remember reading an article in MBA a few years back saying that the X-Games would not be adding freeride biking to it's list of extreme sports that are hosted, because they felt it was not extreme enough. With the gaining following and popularity of Freeride biking and the levels that riders are at now, I think that Freeriding has proven itself more than worthy of being added into the X-Games.

Also, the fact that freeriding is not in the X-Games, and that they have added RALLY CAR RACING, is ridiculous in my opinion.

What do you all think?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

freeride has nothing on fmx for the average viewer.
and also, i think the freeride forum should get its previous "super monsters and hucks to flat here" description.

 

[SteezyWeezy]

i think like a slopestyle type thing should be added, but non bikers woul think it's the same as bmx dirt.

 

[BurlyShirley]

yeah, i just dont see how there's room for it. Between FMX and BMX dirt and street, freeriding isnt very spectacular.

 

[WKC]

i think like a slopestyle type thing should be added, but non bikers woul think it's the same as bmx dirt.

I agree. Just dirt jumps or park stuff or anything like that would be pointless along with FMX and BMX, but a Slopestyle or District Ride style course I think would be awesome to see in the X-Games, because neither FMX or BMX is doing that sorta thing, at least, not that I've heard about.

 

[pnj]

give it time. I've been bmx stunting for 20 some odd years and I think Mtn. biking is going to get REALLY big and popular one day.

all the same stunts can be done on a mtn. bike that can be done on a bmx but with larger tires, gears and suspension the tricks can be done even bigger. bigger = better for tv ratings....

 

[maxyedor]

There is still one major problem. Nobody but us mountain bikers give a rats ass about mountain biking. Most riders have no idea how small our comunity is. The X-Games are a comercial enterprise, mountainbiking is just not marketable. Why would people care to tune in and watch guys huck 30 foot gaps when they can tune in and watch FMX guys huck 130 foot gaps? They wouldn't do dirt jumping because the BMX guys go just as big, if not bigger, atract a larger crown, and more money, and do it without suspension? Nobody will watch Mt. Bikes in a skatepark because even the guy in dead last on a BMX bike throws down more tech manuvers than anybody on a Mt Bike does. Slopstyle and DH could be interesting and nothing else in the X-Games is quite the same, but that would require another huge outlay of cash and a mountain willing to host it. The nearest mountain that could work for the LA games is Tahoe.

There is just no real way for ESPN or any other large company to make money on Mt. Biking. Road riding could atracts some large European sponsors, and a few American ones, but no interest anywhere but Europe, and road isn't very extreem. Rally racing is almost as big as F1 racing, and considerably biger than NASCAR elswhere in the world, so by geting into Rally racing, ESPN will now start to atract a giant international audience, above and beyond what they allready get, and with Travis Patrana driving a rally car they will also atract all the Moto fans, and the Moto fans seem to want only one more after getting a first glimps of Rally.

 

[Bicyclist]

Rally racing is so badass. Just throwin' that out there. Anyways, BMX guys go bigger and throw down huge tricks while they're at it than us MTBers. Plus FMX is massive (both in appeal and jumps). MTB looks lame between the two, plus they don't have the space/elevation change for a slopestyle course.

 

[dhbuilder]

Nobody but us mountain bikers give a rats ass about mountain biking.

and that's just the way i like it.
and the way it needs to stay.

good post by the way.
you've hit the nail right on the head.

it's all about the mighty $$$ and the selling of product.
we don't have any of the former and no ability for the latter.

 

[maxyedor]

and that's just the way i like it.
and the way it needs to stay.

I'm with you all the way, I also surf and if any sport has gotten overly comercial it's surfing. You can't throw a fish in a crowd without hiting a guy wearing a t-shirt form a surf company. Every body and their mother is doing it now and the waves just get crowded. Imagine going riding and pulling up to the parking lot, checking the hill and going straight home because there are to many people out for it to be fun and safe. You'd all freak if that happened. When a sports that is simple to learn the basics of, with basic gear that can be picked up relativly inexpensively, and super limited space to do it in blows up, it kills the vibe and the fun a little bit.

The reason you don't see overcrowding in BMX, skating, and other inexpensive to try X-Games sports is they have nearly unlimited space to roam. We just have a few surf spots, or trails. FMX and Rally are just too expensive for most people to try out and get involved with on any level other than as a spectator.

 

[blue]

The reason you don't see overcrowding in BMX, skating, and other inexpensive to try X-Games sports is they have nearly unlimited space to roam. We just have a few surf spots, or trails. FMX and Rally are just too expensive for most people to try out and get involved with on any level other than as a spectator.

"Extreme" mtbing (DH, FR, etc) typically is too expensive for someone just to pick up as well (instead of say, BMX or skateboarding...skate parks and jump spots around here are typically packed with morons) as a tryout/throwaway gig.

MTB is marketable, but it has to be done correctly and not in an X-Games sense...but like Maxy said, I don't want MTB to become mainstream. I'm happy with where it is now.

 

[chicodude]

and that's just the way i like it.
and the way it needs to stay.
.

I concur.


Mountain biking is way better under the radar.

 

[maxyedor]

Blue, a marketable sports has to appeal to everybody, and everbody has to be doing it for it to be truly marketable. Without overcrowding at the trails, the mtb market isn't going to be doing much growing anytime soon. If it were marketable like dirtbikes are, you would see 10x more people buying them, and most bikes would just sit in the garage, only to be ridden 2-3 time a year, and it would have happened allready. Mountainbiking is a true niche sport, not that thats a bad thing, it's just silly to say that the rest of the world simply doesn't "get it" and that if we only had a better PR guy they would. We had the good PR guy, it was the 96 Olympics, Mountainbiking blew up for about 3 months then people lost interest.

 

[pnj]

Mountainbiking is a true niche sport

won't be forever.....
it's just a young sport. let it grow up some.....

 

[untitledsince89]

Blue, a marketable sports has to appeal to everybody, and everbody has to be doing it for it to be truly marketable.

?? no it doesn't, EVERYONE has to be doing it I think not

 

[bballe336]

FMX is stupid as hell. I'd rather watch some good MX racing. Also Freeriding (drops and slopestyle etc.) is lame as well. I understand why its not in the xgames (its boring to watch and there are about 7 tricks that riders do).

 

[erastusboy]

Does anyone remember downhill bmx. That course but bigger on mountian bikes would be insane. I would def. watch that. Like if they built a huge 4x course.

 

[maxyedor]

?? no it doesn't, EVERYONE has to be doing it I think not

Sorry I should have been more clear, I didn't meen everyone as in every single human, I meant it everybody in a demographic. If you want to sell something to a certain market, say 18-30 year old males, and you want to use a sport as part of your marketing campain, you have to pick a sport that appeals to everybody in that demographic, so would you choose skateboarding, a sport that continues to grow: or Mt. biking as sport that peaked in 1996 and forever seems to linger forever as an oddball sport?


As for Mt. biking maturing, sure is kind of a young sport, but it has been around since the 70's, stakeboarding was an invention of the mid 60's and has been huge since the mid 70's. Most of the sports in the X-Games, and all major alternative sports have had a much faster climb to maturity and popularity. Look at FMX, snowboarding, snowmobile-cross, vert skating, FMX step-up, ect.

I'm not bashing biking, it just isn't marketable.

 

[blue]

As for Mt. biking maturing, sure is kind of a young sport, but it has been around since the 70's, stakeboarding was an invention of the mid 60's and has been huge since the mid 70's. Most of the sports in the X-Games, and all major alternative sports have had a much faster climb to maturity and popularity. Look at FMX, snowboarding, snowmobile-cross, vert skating, FMX step-up, ect.

I'm not bashing biking, it just isn't marketable.

Ah, but that's where you're wrong...DH/FR is fairly new, and that's what appeals to the 18-30 demo...not XC. I think it's unfair to say that the 96 olympics were the pinnacle of interest, as DH and FR seem to be a completely seperate aspect of cycling.

 

[maxyedor]

FR as a seperate entity is fairly new, but DH has been around since the very start, when the mountainbike was invented it was so that they could bomb hills, not go for epic rides. The Mountain Cycle San Adreas was created specificaly for DH way back in '89, and DH racing had been going on for years before that. FR evolved out of DH the same way FMX evolved out of DH, when people started jumping, and gaping on DH race-courses, the raised ladder was originaly from XC riding. FR has only recently been a seperate thing, but it has been a specialty longer than FMX has. I still beleive that 96 was the pinnacle of interest, the Olympics spawned interest in all aspects of dirt riding. They launched XC when Tinker took gold, and guys like Miles Rockwell were making six figures to race DH. Remember Shaun Palmer, he was later than 96, but he was huge in the X-Games and everything he did got people amped to try it out, except DH, he even had a pro-model bike from Spec. people just didn't seem to care very much.

Mountainbiking, XC/DH/FR/DJ, will continue to grow as sports (as will all alt. sports), but I doubt they will ever get to mainstream like status like BMX, Moto., and Skating. Hell there is more money to be earned in competative bratwurst eating than World Cup DH racing.

 

[SeaPig]

yeah, i just dont see how there's room for it. Between FMX and BMX dirt and street, freeriding isnt very spectacular.

Sounds like you should have been at Crankworx. Slopestyle was as extreme as anything I saw at the X games. Maybe it does have an image issue and many may think it's close to BMX, but it they set it up like the Slopestyle at Crankworx, that won't be an issue. On the other hand one thing I noticed at in the X Games stands was just how many empty seats there were. Check out the crowds at Crankworx and the Dirstict Rides. Crankworx had 15,000 people. Maybe freeride doesn't need the X games.

 

[bballe336]

On the other hand one thing I noticed at in the X Games stands was just how many empty seats there were. Check out the crowds at Crankworx and the Dirstict Rides. Crankworx had 15,000 people. Maybe freeride doesn't need the X games.

The reason everyone thinks FR should be in the Xgames is because the Xgames are televised. Crankworx is not.

 

[SeaPig]

give it time. I've been bmx stunting for 20 some odd years and I think Mtn. biking is going to get REALLY big and popular one day.

all the same stunts can be done on a mtn. bike that can be done on a bmx but with larger tires, gears and suspension the tricks can be done even bigger. bigger = better for tv ratings....

I agree. I also find that a lot of the naysayers for Freeriding being in the X-games live out East. When I lived out there, there was a lack of understanding about freeriding, what it is and how big it can go, that I find common here in the west.

 

[pnj]

mtn. biking is still young.... '89 is nothing. bmx and skating have a head start. I still predict mtn. biking will get as big as bmx. at least for a short while, like roller blading.....

 

[renorider40]

Like some of you have already said mountain biking just doesn't really go with the x-games. The two don't really fit or belong together. I could see something like a district ride pausibly getting in the x-games but not much more. It's all fine with me because I like being involved in a sport that is not very popular it is nice not having crowds to deal with and having something that is our own. It is nice having a close knit little niche of mountain bikers unlike other extreme sports.

 

[lovebunny]

the main thing is that to get a decent DH bike and gear you have to spend nearly 2 grand. that doesnt look good to a parent when theyre in a bike shop and see the bmx bike sitting there all decked out for 250-400 plus a 25 dollar pro tec and theyre set

 

[dhbuilder]

it's just a young sport. let it grow up some.....

how much longer are we supposed to wait ?
and what are we waiting for ?

i've been riding,racing and trailbuilding since 1985.
i personally think we've seen the sports heyday come and go with the days of tomac, furtado, overend, giove, herbold, lopes etc...

that's when we had as good of television coverage as we could ever hope to have.
all of us in the sport at that time had high expectations for where the sport was heading.

bike companies were flourishing and small manufacturers were coming of age at a rapid pace. sales were booming.
national and local statewide racing series were everywhere you looked.
during the late 80's and early to mid 90's you could race every weekend somewhere. if not twice a weekend.

the stage was set.
but it went nowhere.

television and it's advertisers soon realized that the market was small and production cost were too high to portray the sport properly.
thus television departed.

small co's folded or merged with bigger ones.
lesser quality manufacturers quickly fell by the wayside.
mt. bike sales dropped as the lancification of the tour came about.
and that broadcast reached a wider audience.

couple that with a racing organization that is about as inept as can be.
and you have the present state we're in.

i'm personally happy that the grassroot level is high enough that we continually have major improvements in cycling technology.
the downhill bike i ride today when measured against my first mt.bike back in 85 doesn't even seem to have any comparisons other than round wheels and a chain and pedals.

just be thankful that we have enough quality companies that generate enough buisness to provide us with an ever improving product.

when you look at the off road motor cycle industry and where they've advanced from from the early days of hodaka's and yamaha dt's.
and the fact that it's taken them 45 yrs. to develop into what they are today, with a much larger customer base than us.

we're not doing too darn bad.

the x-games ?
who needs em ?

 

[jonKranked]

Maybe freeride doesn't need the X games.

very good point. if freeride/slopestyle had the same coverage as the x-games, every white kid in suburbia might start riding their bikes off of walls, buildings etc, only to end up hurt and then their rich parents would go sue crazy (whether they sue a bike company, production company that makes videos or the riders for giving them the ideas) and then we would all lose..



Yes this is worst case scenario and sounds stupid and silly, but remember folks, here in America a lot of people are stupid sue happy and aren't afraid to use it.

 

[SkaredShtles]

and that's just the way i like it.
and the way it needs to stay.

 

[OGRipper]

Pretty much each and every one of the sports in the X-games was, at the time it became included in the games, a fringe sport outside the mainstream. Dirt jumping and vert riding appealing to everyone in a given demographic? Absolutely no way that was true before they were included in the X-games, and even if they are more popular/fashionable I don't think it's true now either.

Slopestyle would be great but you can't do it well in the relatively small arenas where they do the X-games. The only other option would be a Danger Dan-style course with skinnies and big drops, but I don't see it happening. And I'm with dhbuilder and some others when I say I don't really care if we see it or not.

 

[jimmydean]

Rally is kick ass to watch, as is SuperMoto. They might get away with 4x or include a 26" wheel class for dirt jumps, maybe slopestyle, but I doubt DH or any form of freeride would be enough of a draw.

Look at Red Bull Rampage. I loved it and a lot of people I know who bike did also, but outside of bikers, there was no draw, so Red Bull killed it.

 

[flat broke]

I think Lovebunny touches upon the true cornerstone of the issue. How many of the current males age 18-35 rode a 20" bmx bike of some sort to school, or around the neighborhood doing wheelies, boosting driveway aprons, and bunnyhopping curbs etc? You won't find many "normal" guys that didn't. That creates an instant attraction to BMX for those people now sporting via the television and armchair. The demographic has a pre-existing connection to the competition and it draws em in. The other issue is the 13-18yr old demo which has spending power in the billions of dollars thanks to the wallets of their parents. You can market a comodity directly to juvenilles and indirectly garner marketshare in the 21-50yr old realm through their love for their children and the interest they take in their children's interests. Last time I checked, not many folks grew up riding $2k downhill rigs to school and sessioning the neighborhoods etc. So the connection isn't there... yet.

The next issue is that BMX (not as the ABA or the NBL etc. but as kids having fun on 20" bikes) has a HUGE head start on MTB in terms of time, marketshare, accesibility to product, and locations to ride. Though the progression of the riding itself is moving along quite well, the tear down to the barriers of entry is taking much longer. But as some of us have kids, take our kids on rides, etc; the base grows. But here's the kicker, even if I don't ride a 20" anymore, and I take my child on rides when he/she is old enough, he/she's still going to end up with a 20" bike if thats what the rest of the kids have, so he/she'll have some MTB exposure, but will also partake in the 20" market. So even if MTB starts to get more popular, the 20" scene will be growing at the same time making it hard to close the gap.

The real question isn't in why isn't MTB in the XGames. The real question is why do we care? IMHO the XGames themselves are gay. I don't know if anyone else smelled some heavily scripted action going down, but it certainly had a more pronounced WWF feel to me this year. No disrespect to the riders, because individually there was some badass stuff going down. But the event in general just seems like it still hasn't been able to shed the dayglo aura of years past or the fraudulenty excited tone of the announcers/commentators.

I don't care if MTB isn't in the games, but it would be cool if our own events like Crankworks, Rampage, etc. were televised. Obviously the production isn't that expensive, or we wouldn't have all the DVDs we have to choose from these days. I'm getting back on my bike because it's fun, not because one day I might be participating in a sport that is eligible for entry into some marketing scheme. It's cool that there is some form of X activities to watch on the TV (especially when you can't go out and ride for yourself because your 10month old daugher isn't quite old enough to stay home alone ) But it's definitely not something I'm gauging the validity of the fun I have on a bike by.

If you want MTB in the Xgames, have someone from the industry fly Travis Pastrami out to BC, set him up with a ride, and some folks to one up him. If he likes it, the golden boy will make sure it gets in, a la Rally Racing. And when that happens, wait 6 months and check out ebay for some real good deals on barely used bikes and gear

Chris

 

[dante]

I want to see an Urban DH race in the X-Games if they ever move the location to someplace other than LA. Although they did a total hack job on the Rally coverage, I guess bad publicity is better than no publicity...

 

[OGRipper]

I think Lovebunny touches upon the true cornerstone of the issue. How many of the current males age 18-35 rode a 20" bmx bike of some sort to school, or around the neighborhood doing wheelies, boosting driveway aprons, and bunnyhopping curbs etc? You won't find many "normal" guys that didn't.
Chris

You make some excellent points, but I am 36 and I was one of about 6 people in my middle and high-schools that rode BMX. It was not "normal." The normal guys were playing football and baseball.

 

[dhbuilder]

You make some excellent points, but I am 36 and I was one of about 6 people in my middle and high-schools that rode BMX. It was not "normal." The normal guys were playing football and baseball.

i hear that.
i went to high school in the early seventies.
and the moto crew were the outcasts.

i wonder how many of those jocks are fat and bald now ?
and sit around reliving their past through tales of their fading glory.

and i/we're still riding along, living the good life.

 

[BillT]

We won't see freeriding anytime soon because FMX makes the scale of stuff in freeriding look really small and the tricks pulled by the bmx guys makes the ones done in freeriding look remedial at best.

 

[jonKranked]

the TRUE reason is that if that let freeriding in, they'd have to let in all sorts of other silly sports, like eating, lumberjacking, and lawnmowing.

 

[SeaPig]

Like some of you have already said mountain biking just doesn't really go with the x-games. The two don't really fit or belong together. I could see something like a district ride pausibly getting in the x-games but not much more. It's all fine with me because I like being involved in a sport that is not very popular it is nice not having crowds to deal with and having something that is our own. It is nice having a close knit little niche of mountain bikers unlike other extreme sports.

I agree with the district ride idea. It could be real big, especially if they used a lot of urban and man made features for the stunts. I too don't have a problem with the sport not being popular. It has it's advantages. However, there a lot of people who make a very small living on the sport, if at all. Don't they deserve a chance to make a better living by bring the sport to the mass? Think about the frame welders, the bike shops that just focus on FR/DH bikes, the pros, etc. They help our sport, but because it's such a small (tv) audience sport they have a more difficult time at it.

 

[SkaredShtles]

You make some excellent points, but I am 36 and I was one of about 6 people in my middle and high-schools that rode BMX. It was not "normal." The normal guys were playing football and baseball.

Nobody that I know of rode bikes much growing up (rural Michigan). The "norm" was the usual team sports. I didn't "discover" biking until 1991 when I was at college. YMMV of course..........

 

[dhbuilder]

Nobody that I know of rode bikes much growing up (rural Michigan). The "norm" was the usual team sports. I didn't "discover" biking until 1991 when I was at college. YMMV of course..........

i've met so many mt.bikers over the years that have said they didn't go for the team aspect of all the stick and ball sports that this country is so infatuated with.

that's the cool thing about bikes.
you can be on a group ride.
or you can be solo.
or you can actually do both at the same time.