god damn what a fantastic day in the other pisgah. 65*, clear blue sky. could hear jets training in linville gorge nearby. 20 miles and 3000 verts in the bag.
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***Friderp GMT***
- Thread starter Pesqueeb
- Start date
Got to be on 285 from your 'hood.Aaand now we're traffic. FTMFL.
I'm hoping to be traffic in an hour or so on 70.
And the tamale place was closed. 
Y tho. Just stoopid.
You spelled moped wrong.
Again, why? You’re missing out, old man. And you’re free to harbour a strong irrational prejudice against an exceptionally similar activity to one you really like, (which is a bit weird I gotta say, like a skateboarder hating longboards or something, or a skier hating telemarks) but why code for it in law? A uniquely American psychopathy I think. Literally discriminating against a slightly different form of having fun and getting exercise. Crazy.
Because we have donkeys trying to ride up DH trails on them.
And donkeys trying to race up hills on single track on them or blasting by hikers, without any regard for trail etiquette and whatnot.
There are legitimate concerns here with them.
There are also many many many n00bs riding them, which is perhaps part of the problem and why we see the above issues. But these are obviously things you don't do, as an experienced and what I assume as a courteous rider.
Put a no entry/one way sign on the trail? Don’t most trails have this anyway?
So, basically because a few people are being impolite dicks you want to ban a whole class of a sport? Again, a sign at the trailhead explaining etiquette seems a lot more productive… This sounds a lot like when Snowboarding first took off and all the old assholes couldn’t deal. Now look.
With the bikes themselves? Such as?There are legitimate concerns here with them.
Surely a good thing?
I think it sounds like you have concerns with people’s behaviour, not ebikes. And, yes of course. I actually find trailrunners the least polite, but I give them the benefit of the doubt as they probably don’t have much breath. I really don’t think displaying basic manners to others on the trail is a ‘noob vs experience’ thing, in fact I’d go as far as to say the opposite…
I have played around with writing an article on this and gotten nowhere, but a few disordered points:
- Manufacturers started offering ebikes because MTB sales had been flagging and they wanted to present a new toy.
- Lifetimes of these electric motorcycles are going to be short because the technology's rapidly evolving.
- At end of life, virtually nothing's going to be recyclable; this is driven mostly by carbon frames, which are not restricted to ebikes, but the point's valid.
- People are working and are going to work around nominal power and speed limits.
- User conflict between ebikes and real bicycles has been evident since they started to appear.
- I fail to believe that heavier machines with higher power will not negatively impact trail surfaces.
- ...
- I think that ebikes might be OK for legitimately disabled riders.
- Not MTB: Idiots all over the place ride bicycles on sidewalks. Add motors and this becomes significantly more dangerous for pedestrians.
- I still like forty to sixty mile rides. I suspect that battery and motor on an ebike would become dead weight not too far into such a venture.
Horses are a whole different thing. Trails need to be made a particular way in order to not be destroyed in wet conditions, or everyone has to accept the trail is in a certain condition. In NZ horses have totally different infrastructure and don’t share trails with walkers and bikers.That said, i'd be more okay with e-bikes if we could start telling horses to fuck right off out of the forest single track.
Vs.
Excuse the mess, I can’t be stuffed with the quotes.
- Manufacturers started offering ebikes because MTB sales had been flagging and they wanted to present a new toy.
- This argument is specious at best and be applied to literally any innovation in sport equipment.
- Lifetimes of these electric motorcycles are going to be short because the technology's rapidly evolving.
- Ditto, and I would argue people will keep an ebike longer as the capital cost is higher.
- At end of life, virtually nothing's going to be recyclable; this is driven mostly by carbon frames, which are not restricted to ebikes, but the point's valid.
- This is a criticism of all modern consumer manufacturing, and to apply it only to one application of one sport is ridiculous. If you want to make s differencd here go after phones or cars first.
- People are working and are going to work around nominal power and speed limits.
- That’s illegal. It’s also not really a practical problem where there is high ebike uptake because it’s obvious when it’s happening.
- User conflict between ebikes and real bicycles has been evident since they started to appear.
- This is nothing to do with ebikes snd all about your society, sorry.
- I fail to believe that heavier machines with higher power will not negatively impact trail surfaces.
- This isn’t supported by evidence and you’re saying you would also ban fat strong riders? Even with my extra 15lbs of eweight, lots of riders are way heavier and even with my extra 250w, I’m sure many competitive riders are capable of putting down more power than me.
- I think that ebikes might be OK for legitimately disabled riders.
- What about people who like to ride but also have very busy lives and kids, and who live around steep trails? Is that enough of a disability? This is a highly subjective and difficult argument. You’re basically saying only fit, experienced riders can ever ride.
- Not MTB: Idiots all over the place ride bicycles on sidewalks. Add motors and this becomes significantly more dangerous for pedestrians.
- Infrastructure / regulation issue. Also you’ll note not an issue in places with actual high ebike uptake.
- I still like forty to sixty mile rides. I suspect that battery and motor on an ebike would become dead weight not too far into such a venture.
- Depends on the mode you use, and battery/bike you choose. In the Alps there is a whole class of ebike riders who do exactly this sort of thing.
As an old fart with little cartilage remaining in my left knee, I'm still riding an MTB and enjoying it. Whenever the Tracer breaks, the replacement will have a metal frame, no motor, and no electric brakes or shifting if I can possibly manage it.- I think you should keep your options open personally.
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I only wish that the e-bike revolution encouraged more people to use them as a mode of transportation. Designed properly, there's no reason they couldn't provide years of service.
Alas, the bicycle industry sucks at designing stuff that has a relevance and service life longer than a few years. Well that and we have an incredibly hostile attitude and infrastructure for traditional bikes, nevermind e-bikes.
Alas, the bicycle industry sucks at designing stuff that has a relevance and service life longer than a few years. Well that and we have an incredibly hostile attitude and infrastructure for traditional bikes, nevermind e-bikes.
Another point to add: when mountain biking took off, there was also a significant amount of trail building going along with it. In contrast, most e-bikers I see are just riding the trails provided to them and feel entitled to do so. Besides some folks that were on regular bikes before switch to e-bikes or riding them in parallel, I do not see any other e-bikers doing trail work.
I just leave this here: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-5-enduro-bikes-and-1-emtb-face-the-efficiency-test.html
ThEy ArE jUsT ReGuLaR BiKeS!!!!!
For someone so concerned about the environment, you are doing an awful lot to promote an activity that is more environmentally harmful than riding a normal bike.Excuse the mess, I can’t be stuffed with the quotes.
- Manufacturers started offering ebikes because MTB sales had been flagging and they wanted to present a new toy.
- This argument is specious at best and be applied to literally any innovation in sport equipment.
- Lifetimes of these electric motorcycles are going to be short because the technology's rapidly evolving.
- Ditto, and I would argue people will keep an ebike longer as the capital cost is higher.
- At end of life, virtually nothing's going to be recyclable; this is driven mostly by carbon frames, which are not restricted to ebikes, but the point's valid.
- This is a criticism of all modern consumer manufacturing, and to apply it only to one application of one sport is ridiculous. If you want to make s differencd here go after phones or cars first.
- People are working and are going to work around nominal power and speed limits.
- That’s illegal. It’s also not really a practical problem where there is high ebike uptake because it’s obvious when it’s happening.
- User conflict between ebikes and real bicycles has been evident since they started to appear.
- This is nothing to do with ebikes snd all about your society, sorry.
- I fail to believe that heavier machines with higher power will not negatively impact trail surfaces.
- This isn’t supported by evidence and you’re saying you would also ban fat strong riders? Even with my extra 15lbs of eweight, lots of riders are way heavier and even with my extra 250w, I’m sure many competitive riders are capable of putting down more power than me.
- I think that ebikes might be OK for legitimately disabled riders.
- What about people who like to ride but also have very busy lives and kids, and who live around steep trails? Is that enough of a disability? This is a highly subjective and difficult argument.
- Not MTB: Idiots all over the place ride bicycles on sidewalks. Add motors and this becomes significantly more dangerous for pedestrians.
- Infrastructure / regulation issue. Also you’ll note not an issue in places with actual high ebike uptake.
- I still like forty to sixty mile rides. I suspect that battery and motor on an ebike would become dead weight not too far into such a venture.
- Depends on the mode you use, and battery/bike you choose. In the Alps there is a whole class of ebike riders who do exactly this sort of thing.
As an old fart with little cartilage remaining in my left knee, I'm still riding an MTB and enjoying it. Whenever the Tracer breaks, the replacement will have a metal frame, no motor, and no electric brakes or shifting if I can possibly manage it.- I think you should keep your options open personally.
I like my e-bike.
I don't think I'm causing any more trail damage than otherwise. I'm a respectful trail user, which isn't true of all e- or acoustic bikers by any means.
Jefferson County and Colorado State Parks are in agreement with me, and Class 1 e-bikes (no throttle, 20 mph max for assist) are 100% legal on bike trails in their jurisdiction.
I don't think I'm causing any more trail damage than otherwise. I'm a respectful trail user, which isn't true of all e- or acoustic bikers by any means.
Jefferson County and Colorado State Parks are in agreement with me, and Class 1 e-bikes (no throttle, 20 mph max for assist) are 100% legal on bike trails in their jurisdiction.
In NZ, people take their ebikes to help do trail maintenance because it’s easier to get up and down multiple times. Also Ebikers pay more for trails, appear more frequently on trail boards etc. because the reality is they are richer people who can afford this.
Because it lets them sell more bikes.
It’s a ridiculously tiny additional fraction, a literal drop in the ocean, and my personal health outcomes being improved will cost society less in the long term and make me a better happier person.
Also, in an NZ context, trail building now also defacto means reforestation, planting of natives bush, predator trapping, and generally environmental advocacy. So nope.
Lol, nice. Tech is more efficient than humans.
How much of a scientist are you? Let me guess what their agenda is....
So you are one of those.....
People who can think?So you are one of those.....
One of what exactly anyway?So you are one of those.....
well, ackshually
you living longer will probably result in more CO2 emissions than a quick demise
Yes exactly.well, ackshually
you living longer will probably result in more CO2 emissions than a quick demise
That became evident to me in the 1960s when a friend and I were doing a long tour in Canada. Our funds were declining and it turned out to be cheaper to take a train to cover the last segment than it would have been to feed ourselves.
Well that escalated quickly.... 
I'm not against ebikes in general, don't get me wrong. But they have indeed introduced new problems around these parts.
What works in one part of the globe doesn't necessarily work in others. For example in Ontario, majority of trails are free to use. Majority of trails are also not signed and majority do not have a designated primary user. Adding ebikes to the mix only complicates this further.
I'm also on the outskirts of the biggest city in Canada and one of the larger ones in North America, so no, more riders are absolutely not a good thing. We've seen a boom over the last two years and it's been bad for trail access, maintenance, conflicts, etc etc
I dunno. It's all complicated but saying that society is the problem, isn't the fix.
I'm not against ebikes in general, don't get me wrong. But they have indeed introduced new problems around these parts.
What works in one part of the globe doesn't necessarily work in others. For example in Ontario, majority of trails are free to use. Majority of trails are also not signed and majority do not have a designated primary user. Adding ebikes to the mix only complicates this further.
I'm also on the outskirts of the biggest city in Canada and one of the larger ones in North America, so no, more riders are absolutely not a good thing. We've seen a boom over the last two years and it's been bad for trail access, maintenance, conflicts, etc etc
I dunno. It's all complicated but saying that society is the problem, isn't the fix.
well shit. did not mean to start all this mess!
here's a pretty picture i took on my ride of grandfather mountain in the distance
here's a pretty picture i took on my ride of grandfather mountain in the distance
Wow, some monkeys have their e-panties in a wad.
Carry on.
Carry on.
I am honestly not trying to be dick here but you just literally described a bunch of societal problems and then said society is not to blame. I mean it’s not like you’re short of actual land, are incapable of making signs, or incapable of producing more legislation. It’s just about how you approach it.Well that escalated quickly....
I'm not against ebikes in general, don't get me wrong. But they have indeed introduced new problems around these parts.
What works in one part of the globe doesn't necessarily work in others. For example in Ontario, majority of trails are free to use. Majority of trails are also not signed and majority do not have a designated primary user. Adding ebikes to the mix only complicates this further.
I'm also on the outskirts of the biggest city in Canada and one of the larger ones in North America, so no, more riders are absolutely not a good thing. We've seen a boom over the last two years and it's been bad for trail access, maintenance, conflicts, etc etc
I dunno. It's all complicated but saying that society is the problem, isn't the fix.
I do of course understand that land access, liability etc, have been ongoing issues in North America generally, and adding another ‘class’ of users has exacerbated this for some people. Objectively this is a reflection of the existing issues though, not ‘ebikes’. Seriously in what other sport (other than hunting wild animals) would we see more people doing it as a bad thing? This is crazy. Oh no more people are getting fit and healthy.
The solution is to do better at trail advocacy, do some really simple stuff like signs, not create yet another point of artificial conflict.
Let's ignore the problems with society, because there is no fix for that.
There is literally no more room for more trail users here. We are talking parking lots at trail heads are not only full, but over flowing onto surrounding roads. It's at the point now where you need to reserve a spot to get into provincial parks for day use. Places are getting closed because of overuse.
The management of forests, trail clubs and whatnot are also weird here. We've put signs up, only to have them torn down by the people in charge. We make trail improvements and do maintenance, but get shunned for it because of liability or some other nonsense.
Trail access was already a sensitive topic in a lot of places around here and ebikes have added to it. Talk to hikers of the Bruce Trail here how they like bikes vs ebikes. They dislike one and dislike the other more.