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Friends, Politics and the Presidential Race

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
I apologize for the lengthy introduction, but it seems necessary to set the scene for proper understanding.

This weekend I went on a snowboard trip with a friend who describes himself as "conservative." We had many hours in the car to go over political theory and stuff and describe our views to each other.

My friend said that he was pro-torture. He said that there were bad people out there that wanted to harm America™ and that the policies of the Bush administration have been instrumental in preventing another 9/11 style attack. He said that if torture could help keep him and his family safe, it was fine with him. I pushed him further on this matter to see if there was a limit. I asked him about if someone had no regard for their own well-being and then if torturing someone's wife or children would be OK, and he thought so. I asked about killing them. Like maybe killing the wife to show that we were serious about killing the kid too, and he thought that was acceptable too. In summary he felt that preventing another attack was more important than a few possibly innocent lives.

As the discussion rolled along, he often referred to liberals and democrats as the enemy. He railed against McCain-Feingold, not because it was ineffective or wrong, but what he saw as most disturbing about it was that McCain had collaborated with a liberal in crafting it. As I asked questions to try and understand his thinking on the matter it became clear to me that he thinks that there truly is a left-right dichotomy in this country. That conservatives are good and liberals are bad. He would support a stupid policy proposed by a conservative over a smart policy proposed by a liberal simply because he is a team player. He does not accept the idea that the left-right battle is merely for show and that the major political parties are really united against the people. That thinking is just plain crazy.

So now back to the subject at hand... this conversation all began with a discussion of where he could do early voting in Illinois (and my mistake in investigating this for him before him telling me his political positions :poster_oops: ). I asked him who he planned to vote for in the primary. He said Romney. I asked why he likes Romney, and he started talking about Huckabee. I interrupted and said, "No, tell me about why you like Romney." He then started talking about McCain. I interrupted him again asking, "Why is it when I ask you about what you like about Romney, you start talking about other candidates?"

He said, "Because Romney is the one I have heard the fewest bad things about."

Interesting. So it is clear that he is voting republican. And he is choosing the republican that he has the least reason to dislike.

So, what are your thoughts about this oh wise and mighty :monkey:s? Is it a good plan to choose the candidate that least offends you, or should you seek a candidate that you actually like? What role do you think his political opinions play in being willing to accept such a candidate?
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
0
SoMD
Not knowing you or your friend, obviously, this sounds like a typical "Hannitization" i.e. Too much Hannity/Oreilly/Limbaugh listening. There is absolutely nothing wrong with have conservative morals or values. Nor is there anything wrong with liberal morals or values. The whole idea of electing a good choice for President is to find that candidate that can balance both and weigh both sides and come out on the other side doing what is in the best interest for the country as a whole.

But, aside from voting in Narnia, that ain't happening. There will be plenty of voting for the lesser of evils this go around.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
you were having a conversation? it's apparent your radio doesn't receive the am band.
 

J-Dubs

Monkey
Jul 10, 2006
702
0
Salem, MA
During the primary, you should always vote for who you like.
During the general, vote for whichever doesn't support the neo-con fascist agenda.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,428
2,004
Portland, OR
One of my best friends is militant republican. He was born and raised in the Mid West and he works as a safety consultant for 2 of the largest Big Oil companies in the world. He makes more than twice what I make in a year with less education.

As long as his paycheck is unchanged, we will continue to support Bush. He will also blindly vote Republican regardless of who it is with the idea his paycheck will remain unaffected.

He and I do not talk politics because he votes without knowing. He's still a friend, it's just not a topic of discussion.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
You've hit on so many issues. These are the ones I have not figured out.

1. What happens when your close friends are so politically different. I was talking to a buddy and he didn't care how much corporate raiders made or that they pay less tax as long as the "50 million women on welfare still buy the premium formula for their kids when they should be buying the generic." I Just agreed not to talk politics with me, but it's such a disturbing thing which leads me to

#2 Why are so many young career people selfish and hate poor people?? Most of my republican loving/poor people hating friends have two parents and got a paid trip to college. How can they feel so entitiled to not care about single moms, abused kids, dysfunctional house holds and kids?? I have the best healthcare in the country, but I"m okay to pay more so all can have healthcare- it's just the right thing to do. Aren't republicans christians and caring?

3. Why people vote- this is a thesis of and unto itself. I have decided to vote the favorite candidate I actually think can win- otherwise you give votes to the strongest opponent.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
0
SoMD
I think one of the reasons that you hear the prevailing stance against welfare and subsidies receipients is most people only ever see the abusers of the programs. Having lived in New Orleans, it was particularly bad. You stand in line buying groceries, trying to stay on a middle class budget, paying the middle class taxes, scrimping and shopping with coupons, etc. and you see someone paying with a food stamp card or whatever particular entitlement they are recieving and they are buying steaks, top name brand items and they have their manicured nails, hairdos, cell phones and most likely will drive away in an Escalade to go back to their section 8 subsidized housing. I actually knew a social worker who said she had had girls laugh about having "daddy'd babies" to get as much money as possible. Granted, these are the few, but they are what is seen.

Me personally, i support entitlement to assist but not support. In other words, it should be an interim measure, not a career choice.
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
3. Why people vote- this is a thesis of and unto itself. I have decided to vote the favorite candidate I actually think can win- otherwise you give votes to the strongest opponent.
On this I couldn't disagree more. One should vote for their favorite candidate... PERIOD.

If the strongest opponent wins because the most people think they are the best candidate then that is good. That is how it should be. The people have decided who they think is the best.

If you vote for a candidate because you think they can win and not because you think they are the best, aren't you doing a disservice to the country? Who are you to decide who can and cannot win? What would you base your decision on? What the media tells you about who is electable? Come on now. Certainly you realize that they are not an objective source of information.

Vote with your own heart and own mind, and don't vote a particular way just because someone tells you to.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,791
36
Japan
On this I couldn't disagree more. One should vote for their favorite candidate... PERIOD.

If the strongest opponent wins because the most people think they are the best candidate then that is good. That is how it should be. The people have decided who they think is the best.



Vote with your own heart and own mind, and don't vote a particular way just because someone tells you to.
Well said, your vote counts in some way no matter who you vote for. It might not count in the grand scheme of things but if it counts for you that's enough.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
On this I couldn't disagree more. One should vote for their favorite candidate... PERIOD.

If the strongest opponent wins because the most people think they are the best candidate then that is good. That is how it should be. The people have decided who they think is the best.

If you vote for a candidate because you think they can win and not because you think they are the best, aren't you doing a disservice to the country? Who are you to decide who can and cannot win? What would you base your decision on? What the media tells you about who is electable? Come on now. Certainly you realize that they are not an objective source of information.

Vote with your own heart and own mind, and don't vote a particular way just because someone tells you to.
Well, we have a disagreement. Nadar had some good principles, but every vote for Nadar by an idealistic person was really a vote for Bush. Maybe in the primaries you vote for you ideal, but it doesn't work in the final zero-sum game.