[MtnbikeMike]

So..I have this truck. A 2002 F-150, single cab, 5-speed V-6, strip-model truck with a vinyl floor. It's got almost 28k miles on it. The thing's been great, except for one little thing. I usually will take it out of gear at stoplights to save the clutch, and so my leg doesn't get tired. As of late, it's been kinda hard to get it into first while at a stop(I think there's a safety mechanism that keeps you from putting it into 1st when the clutch isn't in, and it may not be disengaging...or something). So, with the 36-month warranty about to run out, I decided to take it into the dealer to have it fixed.

It was there a couple of days. Then they give me a call saying that the clutch has gone bad and that the clutch warranty is only good for 12 months, so it'll be $673 to fix it :mumble: I ok'd them to do it, went down and picked it up. The f'ing problem isn't even fixed!!!! I still have to almost force it into gear. Dammit! :mumble: So it's still there.

I wish cars were as simple as bikes to wrench on.

 

[Hungry_Hank]

clutches are bitches. especially heavy duty truck clutches... but anyways, does it feel like the gears aren't meshing properly when you try to put it into first? try to give it a little gas and as the rpm is falling, pop it into gear. sure it'll feel rough, but it gets the job done.

 

[CoMo]

So..I have this truck. A 2002 F-150, single cab, 5-speed V-6, strip-model truck with a vinyl floor. It's got almost 28k miles on it. The thing's been great, except for one little thing. I usually will take it out of gear at stoplights to save the clutch, and so my leg doesn't get tired. As of late, it's been kinda hard to get it into first while at a stop(I think there's a safety mechanism that keeps you from putting it into 1st when the clutch isn't in, and it may not be disengaging...or something). So, with the 36-month warranty about to run out, I decided to take it into the dealer to have it fixed.

It was there a couple of days. Then they give me a call saying that the clutch has gone bad and that the clutch warranty is only good for 12 months, so it'll be $673 to fix it :mumble: I ok'd them to do it, went down and picked it up. The f'ing problem isn't even fixed!!!! I still have to almost force it into gear. Dammit! :mumble: So it's still there.

I wish cars were as simple as bikes to wrench on.

So does this mean I'm driving to the races now?

 

[MtnbikeMike]

So does this mean I'm driving to the races now?

Hells ya.


Oh, and Hank. It's not that it doesn't go into first at all, it just doesn't feel smooth....kinda like it's catching a few teeth on the way in. I'm trying to avoid that

 

[=[Stinky]=]

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily.

Found
On
Road
Dead

Meh, sorry. Couldnt resists I dunno man. Drain and flush and refill your transmission. Sometimes the schynros in the trans arent moving freely... This is the first thing they should have done. was gonna say clutch too... But guess thats not it.

 

[chicodude]

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily.

Found
On
Road
Dead
.

****ed
over
rebulit
dodge

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Chitty
Heavy
Expensive
Venerial
Yeah, whatever

 

[=[Stinky]=]

Chitty
Heavy
Expensive
Venerial
Yeah, whatever

I drive a Toyota


Im Serious on the transmission fluid tho. worth a shot.

 

[Sandwich]

try popping into second real quick and then back up. It's probably the synchros, you could also try releasing the clutch and putting it back in. My audi does it sometime, or my honda used to, i forget which. Just do it quick.

 

[Toshi]

i second the transmission fluid suggestion. my old Z used to be balky on the 1-2 shift on cold mornings until i switched to Amsoil.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

The truck is at the dealer, let the professionals handle it. You paid for the clutch (which is a non warranty item) every thing else should be covered under warranty.


edit..

Ok I just posed this ? to my Shop Foreman (I work for a Lincoln/Mercury dealer, with Ford service) He said it is doubtful a syncro problem, or one of the symptoms would be grinding. The tranny has a (Few actually) throw adjustment that is probably out of wack.

However I stand by the "Let the dealer and your warranty address it"

 

[Lex]

The truck is at the dealer, let the professionals handle it. You paid for the clutch (which is a non warranty item) every thing else should be covered under warranty.


edit..

Ok I just posed this ? to my Shop Foreman (I work for a Lincoln/Mercury dealer, with Ford service) He said it is doubtful a syncro problem, or one of the symptoms would be grinding. The tranny has a (Few actually) throw adjustment that is probably out of wack.

However I stand by the "Let the dealer and your warranty address it"

I'll tell you one thing. I would demand my money back on the misdiagnosed clutch problem. If that wasn't the problem and it was their faulty thinking that cost you almost $700 you should definitely put up a fight.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily.

Found
On
Road
Dead

Meh, sorry. Couldnt resists I dunno man. Drain and flush and refill your transmission. Sometimes the schynros in the trans arent moving freely... This is the first thing they should have done. was gonna say clutch too... But guess thats not it.

hehe... sounds like its wasnt the clutch. Clutch usually shows as slippage... the clutch fork tends to be the problem you are describing and it will cost you just a little less than the clutch.

I hate auto mechanics... its really hard to find a good one that gives a crap about you and not simply having the lowest work:money ratio. I feel the same about most doctors.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Jeezus. You'd have to *RAPE* a clutch for it to wear out in 28K miles. I'd push the dealer to reimburse you. Call Ford directly. That's crap.

-S.S.-

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I'll tell you one thing. I would demand my money back on the misdiagnosed clutch problem. If that wasn't the problem and it was their faulty thinking that cost you almost $700 you should definitely put up a fight.

That is an excellent point and you probably have a good chance of winning that battle.

 

[Rockland]

So..I have this truck. A 2002 F-150, single cab, 5-speed V-6, strip-model truck with a vinyl floor. It's got almost 28k miles on it.

Wierd! I have this exact same truck (4wd & black). No problem with shifting here. Good luck.

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Imma go beat some people up.

Wierd! I have this exact same truck (4wd & black). No problem with shifting here. Good luck.

Mine's black too, 'cept no 4x4.

 

[BigMike]

On my Nissan Pathfinder, there is a 1st gear lockout thingy where it wont let me go into first unless I am totally stopped, or if I double clutch. Its slightly annoying, but Once I figured out why I couldn't go into first coasting up to a stoplight and figured out how to get around it, I don't feel like kicking my truck anymore

 

[Barbaton]

heh. this thread reminded me i need to call the chevy dealer. :angry:

 

[Kornphlake]

That is an excellent point and you probably have a good chance of winning that battle.

The moment the dealer said his problem wasn't going to be covered by warranty he should have found another shop to do the work. Another shop likely wouldn't have replaced the clutch because it's fine, would have suggested the throw adjustment and told him to take it back to a dealer for warranty repair. Dealers are like LBS's, they're nice for what you can't mail order or need today, for everythign else they suck.

 

[mack]

Have you been downshifting into first while towing stuff? Syncros sound bad.

Does it wear the clutch out when its in all the way at stop lights? How is it bad on the clutch to sit at a stop light in 1st with the clutch in? I do this all the time in traffic.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
Does it wear the clutch out when its in all the way at stop lights? How is it bad on the clutch to sit at a stop light in 1st with the clutch in? I do this all the time in traffic.

When you have your clutch pedal pushed in, it is *disengaged.* Therefore, no wear is occurring.

-S.S.-

 

[dhtahoe]

i second the transmission fluid suggestion. my old Z used to be balky on the 1-2 shift on cold mornings until i switched to Amsoil.

Yep me too. Just last week we switched to Red Line ($8.95 qt but sooooo worth it) OEM fluid is crap. On an F-150 first gear is super low and as the transmission sycros wear a little it will have issuses because of the speed that gear turns. Same with reverse... because it's very low and spinning the other direction. Our Subaru would not even shift into first if the car was rolling even 1mph, ans the shift to second was super rough. Put in a high grade syn 75-90wt and not a single issue. I think it's funny that MOST dealerships will tell you that you NEVER need to change tranny fluid. Then why are 90% of the trannys I yank out of cutomers cars due to poor lubrication because the fluid was done and broken down mile ago.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

The moment the dealer said his problem wasn't going to be covered by warranty he should have found another shop to do the work. Another shop likely wouldn't have replaced the clutch because it's fine, would have suggested the throw adjustment and told him to take it back to a dealer for warranty repair. Dealers are like LBS's, they're nice for what you can't mail order or need today, for everythign else they suck.

Another "shop" or another dealer? I dont buy that a Franchise dealer would take more of risk to try to rip off a customer then an indendent repair facility. You have no idea how the squeeky wheel gets the grease when you are a Franchise Dealer. I can tell you that if you have a legitimate concern it will be taken care of one way or the other.

The dealer is the BEST place to get your car repaired. It may not be the least expensive, but just like any profession our techs, supervisors and managers go through some pretty extensive continous education. (I shizit you not) They work on more cars and are held to higher standards then pretty much any independent shop around.

I am not saying mistakes dont happen and the dealer wont try to minimize their cost exposure, but if they effed up it will get fixed.

Furthermore although Customer Pay rate for repairs is higher than a warranty rate, any dealer is HAPPY to have warranty work, the more the better. It is the bread and butter of the business. We do not make money by turning away warranty work. If I could warranty an oil change or new tires and have the customer be happy we would do it for everyone.

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Have you been downshifting into first while towing stuff? Syncros sound bad.

Does it wear the clutch out when its in all the way at stop lights? How is it bad on the clutch to sit at a stop light in 1st with the clutch in? I do this all the time in traffic.

The thing is, that it downshifts fine while rolling. It won't shift over 15mph(for obvious reasons).

It's Not exactly bad to have the clutch 9in at lights, but the more time your clutch is in, it wears out the clutch springs. Plus my leg gets tired

 

[mack]

When you have your clutch pedal pushed in, it is *disengaged.* Therefore, no wear is occurring.

-S.S.-

yeah thats what i though, the pressure plate isnt engaged. I was confused because he said...

I usually will take it out of gear at stoplights to save the clutch

Ah got it, the springs. You mean the springs that disengage it or the springs that are in the plate itself. Im not quite sure what those 4 springs in the plate do though. vibration maybe.

 

[dhtahoe]

When you have your clutch pedal pushed in, it is *disengaged.* Therefore, no wear is occurring.

-S.S.-

No sorry but every time you push it in and let it out that is one cycle. So the more you push it in and then let it out the faster it wears. So if you come to a traffic light and put it into neutral that is one cycle. Then when you put it back into gear when the light turns green that is another cycle. Now if you come to a light and just hold it in that means the clutch cycles only once. It's funny that all the old thoughts about cars have not advanced with the cars now made. With all the computers in cars these days things have changed. The one that still sticks that cracks me up. Warming your car up before you drive. That all started with engines 50 years ago that had poor lubricated top ends(heads). The old pushrod v engines and aircooled engines with carbs. Not onlt did you need a "warmup" to heat up engine oil so it would make it to the valvetrain, but also to get the carb to deliver proper fuel-air ratio. A little warm up is fine, but I still see people warming up there cars for a half hour.

 

[Kornphlake]

The dealer is the BEST place to get your car repaired. It may not be the least expensive, but just like any profession our techs, supervisors and managers go through some pretty extensive continous education. (I shizit you not) They work on more cars and are held to higher standards then pretty much any independent shop around.

Here's where I disagree, the dealer should be the best place to get work done because theoretically they should see more new Fords than any other shop, they should know what parts are most likely to go out within the warranty period, how to identify them and how to repair the problem. Unfortunately I haven't found this to be the case.

This is the first I've heared about Ford's dealer service so I can't really comment there but I know Saturn has set a standard of having mechanics who don't have a freakin clue even though they replace the same motor mount, same water pump, same EGR valve and same ETCS on 95% of the cars that come in. I can literally type "saturn rough idle" into google and get a handfull of hits on how to diagnose the problem properly and figure out what needs fixing (along with complaints about dealers who replaced everything but the faulty part.) Even if that means just double checking a problem some mechanic may have found, the internet is full of customer complaints, it's pretty easy to figure out what is a common problem without having to work on a few thousand saturns.

Comparing saturn to ford is a little brutal I'll agree, but MTNBikeMike's experiance seems to suggest that his particular dealer is as clueless as any saturn dealer.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Here's where I disagree, the dealer should be the best place to get work done.....

You are right, like I mentioned, no dealer is perfect, some ARE much better then others. However there are 3 sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth. In this case, his, the dealers and the truth. The most difficult part of any repair, wether it is warranty or customer pay is the communication between the customer and the service writer, especially if the issue is not completely obvious (ie leaky radiator, flat tire etc etc).

 

[SkaredShtles]

No sorry but every time you push it in and let it out that is one cycle. So the more you push it in and then let it out the faster it wears. So if you come to a traffic light and put it into neutral that is one cycle. Then when you put it back into gear when the light turns green that is another cycle. Now if you come to a light and just hold it in that means the clutch cycles only once.

I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or not.

The majority of clutch "wear" occurs because the crank speed does not match the speed of the transmission input. The clutch equalizes these speeds by slipping. Slip the clutch alot on shifts, expect to replace the clutch plate sooner.

-S.S.-

 

[Kornphlake]

You are right, like I mentioned, no dealer is perfect, some ARE much better then others. However there are 3 sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth. In this case, his, the dealers and the truth. The most difficult part of any repair, wether it is warranty or customer pay is the communication between the customer and the service writer, especially if the issue is not completely obvious (ie leaky radiator, flat tire etc etc).

So you're saying that the mechanic at the dealer did what he thought needed to be done and it ended up not solving the problem and now that's the service writters problem? That sounds reasonable, let the guy at the cash register figure out who pays for what. The fact still remains that the mechanic replaced a clutch that was not faulty at someone's expense. You'd think that a mechanic at a ford dealer would have seen enough bad clutches and enough bad throw adjustments to be able to distinguish between the two and fix the right problem rather than just fix something to appease the customer and if it doesn't solve the problem try something else.

I hate confrontation (however I may become annonomously confrontational on the internet) I'd rather get ripped off at a lower cost by some mechanic at an independant garage than get ripped off by a dealer at an inflated cost. I've gotten to where I'll research the problem first, take it to a mechanic and ask for an opinion, if it doesn't match my research I'll find another shop until I find one that at least knows as much about my car as I do. Last time I was going through this process I actually found a mechanic who knew even more than I did, it was great, he started out by saing it could be this, we see alot of these problems, but it could also be this, most cars with this problem act likke that, is your car doing that, well then it's probabally the other.

At least the automobile industry hasn't started outsourcing their customer service to India... "Thank you for pleasing me with your business, I will you help the process of repair your vehicle. Pleasantly tell me what model owns you? Before I go on, has you check there are gasoline in the vehicle? Do you put this key in the car to turn it on? Do your vehicle have an anti-theft device..."

 

[golgiaparatus]

I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or not.

The majority of clutch "wear" occurs because the crank speed does not match the speed of the transmission input. The clutch equalizes these speeds by slipping. Slip the clutch alot on shifts, expect to replace the clutch plate sooner.

-S.S.-

DHTahoe's statement reads like he is saying that clutch wear depends upon how many times you push the pedal in and let it back out. Which in actuality is meaningless unless their is actual friction on the plate caused by a the difference in drive wheen RPM and engine RPM. Basically you should be able to sit in neutral or with the engine off and push the clutch in hundreds of times without it causing any wear to the clutch plate at all.

 

[SkaredShtles]

DHTahoe's statement reads like he is saying that clutch wear depends upon how many times you push the pedal in and let it back out. Which in actuality is meaningless unless their is actual friction on the plate caused by a the difference in drive wheen RPM and engine RPM. Basically you should be able to sit in neutral or with the engine off and push the clutch in hundreds of times without it causing any wear to the clutch plate at all.

Yeah.... yeah. That's what I'm talkin' 'bout.

-S.S.-

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

So you're saying that the mechanic at the dealer did what he thought needed to be done and it ended up not solving the problem and now that's the service writters problem? That sounds reasonable, let the guy at the cash register figure out who pays for what. The fact still remains that the mechanic replaced a clutch that was not faulty at someone's expense. You'd think that a mechanic at a ford dealer would have seen enough bad clutches and enough bad throw adjustments to be able to distinguish between the two and fix the right problem rather than just fix something to appease the customer and if it doesn't solve the problem try something else.

I am just saying it could be something inbetween. A clutch is not an expensive part, (it is a labor intensive job) if the svc writer wrote up the ticket to R&R, I doubt the mechanic even gave it 2 looks when he popped in a new one. The problem could most certainly be a pressure plate problem, or a throwout bearing (the ThrowOut bearing most certainly would of been replaced, and the PP resurfaced during this job). It could be a number of things. I will not even e-speculate further.

Facrotry mechanics pay for their own mistakes, they do not get paid to "redo" jobs, so it certainly behooves (sp?) them to do things correctly. Same thing with service writers, they only get paid on revenue they generate, so if the original ticket was say $600 in customer pay, but that is going to be reversed and the warranty ticket to fix the problem is going to be $500 that service writer is going to be hurting as well. Not to mention the service manager who will be eating that loss.

I am just saying that as a Franchise Dealer, I can tell you we much rather do a job once, do it right and make everyone happy. If we don't it comes back to haunt us and we end up paying for it, both in the $ and the customer service scores.

 

[dhtahoe]

DHTahoe's statement reads like he is saying that clutch wear depends upon how many times you push the pedal in and let it back out. Which in actuality is meaningless unless their is actual friction on the plate caused by a the difference in drive wheen RPM and engine RPM. Basically you should be able to sit in neutral or with the engine off and push the clutch in hundreds of times without it causing any wear to the clutch plate at all.

Ok do you really think I would be talking about a car that is not running . one more time and I'll try a make it more simple. If the car is running the more you use the clutch the more it wears. So by coming to a stop and shifting into N you have to CYCLE (once in and once out being a cycle) the clutch once to put it into N and one more CYCLE to put it back into gear and move again. You are using the clutch TWICE AS MUCH. Engagement and disengagement wear a clutch not just having it in or out.

 

[Toshi]

Ok do you really think I would be talking about a car that is not running . one more time and I'll try a make it more simple. If the car is running the more you use the clutch the more it wears. So by coming to a stop and shifting into N you have to CYCLE (once in and once out being a cycle) the clutch once to put it into N and one more CYCLE to put it back into gear and move again. You are using the clutch TWICE AS MUCH. Engagement and disengagement wear a clutch not just having it in or out.

engagement and disengagement cycles with no load (eg neutral) or with matched speeds shouldn't wear the clutch. sometimes you just have to admit that you misspoke.

 

[SkaredShtles]

engagement and disengagement cycles with no load (eg neutral) or with matched speeds shouldn't wear the clutch. sometimes you just have to admit that you misspoke.

-S.S.-

 

[dhtahoe]

Nevermind...

 

[Repack]

Jeezus. You'd have to *RAPE* a clutch for it to wear out in 28K miles. I'd push the dealer to reimburse you. Call Ford directly. That's crap.

-S.S.-

On all counts. My parents bitched to Ford after our old Taurus wagon went through 5 transmissions in less that 100k miles. Don't take "No" for an answer. They ended up paying for 4 of them.

 

[Bikebro]

When my mother tried to get a F-150 with a standard transmission a few years ago she had to order it. When she brought it to her mechanic friend to have the clutched looked at after less then a year he realised it was the same clutch as a Ford Ranger. Way to go you cheap f'ing pricks.