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$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
She was saying it like she was ashamed of it..
that's the first I noticed. Almost as cringe-inducing as wolf pimping for god, like he was trying to get her to say she's going to Disneyland
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
32,004
2,893
say it, say your blessed!!! now c$nt say it before god sucks the rest of this god forsaken **** hole dry.

oh wait, were still on the air?
i don't think wolf could pull off going pentacostal...
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,592
1,947
AK
I'm here in OKC and evidently all we have to do is pray and bad things don't happen or get better. I gave some money to Red Cross instead.
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,647
664
Front Range, dude...
...that would be too good for him. He and Phred Felps deserve the same fate. To one day stare into the face of God and have him say "Yeah...your ideas? Not mine...you were WRONG! But, I forgive you...now, as for your fellow humans that you condemned and harassed, humiliated and debased, I will let them judge you."
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
That’s because Piper and many in the fundamentalist neo-Reformed movement are working off of a perversion of the doctrine of total depravity that not only teaches that human beings are depraved—that is, that our humanity is marred by sin
I still dont get this part of religion.
Jesus supposedly died on the cross for our sins. So how can we still be "marred by sin"?

An omnipotent God designs man with sin.
Then send his son to die for mans sin, which is his own faulty design in the first place.
Son dies for the rest of mankinds sin, asks for forgivenes and has to be forgiven according to Christian doctrine.
Et voila, man is still with original sin so he died for nothing.. :confused:

Now, as if this isnt stupid enough... According to religious doctrine God and Jesus and the virgin Mary are one in the union of the holy trinity.
Judeo Christianity is a monotheology, so there can never be three Gods. Therefore Jesus is the same entity as God, and Mary (Taking this into account God ****ed himself to give birth to himself :crazy:).
So basically God comitted suicide to make up for his own mistake, forgave himself for it but later figured out the whole worship story wouldnt work unless people were born with original sin in the first place and made up his mind about forgiving himself and now man is still with original sin so he wouldnt have had to kill himself in the first place.

I dont find this particularly omnipotent.
 
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Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/abusive-theology-piper-mahaney

fcuk this Piper guy in the mouth w/ a chrome robot dick @ max gain
Thanks for posting that Stink……that was an awesome article.

I couldn’t agree more with you except that robot dick needs to rape his cornhole for several years unlubricated before it rapes his mouth……..I’m thinking something along the lines of what Lisbeth did to Nils……

Anywho………reading articles like this and seeing what PR said about the tornado really make me wonder if I’m actually a Christian. I mean hordes of folks (idiots lets be honest) follow these retards like RP, and Piper and the like. If agreeing, or even slightly giving a nod to these F’ers is what identifies someone as a Christian, then count me out. I really like her line about “arrogant fool” regarding theologians who go through elaborate explanations of why bad things happen. My gut feeling is they spend so much time on those explanations because people get stuck on the "why bad things happen" question, and they need a neat tidy answer so they can "prove" God/Jesus/Bible, whatever other apologetic need there. Waste of time if you ask me........

This brought to mind a quote from one of my favorite theologians, N.T. Wright:

For seven years I was College Chaplain and Worcester College, Oxford. Each year I used to see the first year undergraduates individually for a few minutes, to welcome them to the college and make a first acquaintance. Most were happy to meet me; but many commented, often with slight embarrassment, “You won’t be seeing much of me; you see, I don’t believe in god.”

I developed stock response: “Oh, that’s interesting; which god is it you don’t believe in?” This used to surprise them; they mostly regarded the word “God” as a univocal, always meaning the same thing. So they would stumble out a few phrases about the god they said they did not believe in: a being who lived up the in the sky, looking down disapprovingly at the world, occasionally “intervening” to do miracles, sending bad people to hell while allowing good people to share his heaven. Again, I had a stock response for this very common statement of “spy-in-the-sky” theology: “Well, I’m not surprised you don’t believe in that god. I don’t believe in that god either.”

At this point the undergraduate would look startled. Then, perhaps, a faint look of recognition; it was sometimes rumored that half the college chaplains at Oxford were atheists. “No,” I would say; “I believe in the god I see revealed in Jesus of Nazareth.”
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
For seven years I was College Chaplain and Worcester College, Oxford. Each year I used to see the first year undergraduates individually for a few minutes, to welcome them to the college and make a first acquaintance. Most were happy to meet me; but many commented, often with slight embarrassment, “You won’t be seeing much of me; you see, I don’t believe in god.”

I developed stock response: “Oh, that’s interesting; which god is it you don’t believe in?” This used to surprise them; they mostly regarded the word “God” as a univocal, always meaning the same thing. So they would stumble out a few phrases about the god they said they did not believe in: a being who lived up the in the sky, looking down disapprovingly at the world, occasionally “intervening” to do miracles, sending bad people to hell while allowing good people to share his heaven. Again, I had a stock response for this very common statement of “spy-in-the-sky” theology: “Well, I’m not surprised you don’t believe in that god. I don’t believe in that god either.”

At this point the undergraduate would look startled. Then, perhaps, a faint look of recognition; it was sometimes rumored that half the college chaplains at Oxford were atheists. “No,” I would say; “I believe in the god I see revealed in Jesus of Nazareth.”
Another fine example of nitpicking the good parts, and leaving out the bad parts in scripture. Proving once again that you dont need God for morality, but that it comes from your own mind.

Andy, I think eventually you will come to the conclusion that youre a full fledged Atheist.
You just need to go one God further like the rest of us.
 
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$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Another fine example of nitpicking the good parts, and leaving out the bad parts in scripture. Proving once again that you dont need God for morality, but that it comes from your own mind.
so there's no absolute morality? is this not an absolute statement?

if so, how can you begin to assert someone's morality (either based in their mind, or the god who resides in their mind) is somehow fallacious or unnecessary?
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
14,568
1,578
Colorado
Thanks for posting that Stink……that was an awesome article.

I couldn’t agree more with you except that robot dick needs to rape his cornhole for several years unlubricated before it rapes his mouth……..I’m thinking something along the lines of what Lisbeth did to Nils……

Anywho………reading articles like this and seeing what PR said about the tornado really make me wonder if I’m actually a Christian. I mean hordes of folks (idiots lets be honest) follow these retards like RP, and Piper and the like. If agreeing, or even slightly giving a nod to these F’ers is what identifies someone as a Christian, then count me out. I really like her line about “arrogant fool” regarding theologians who go through elaborate explanations of why bad things happen. My gut feeling is they spend so much time on those explanations because people get stuck on the "why bad things happen" question, and they need a neat tidy answer so they can "prove" God/Jesus/Bible, whatever other apologetic need there. Waste of time if you ask me........

This brought to mind a quote from one of my favorite theologians, N.T. Wright:
Another fine example of nitpicking the good parts, and leaving out the bad parts in scripture. Proving once again that you dont need God for morality, but that it comes from your own mind.

Andy, I think eventually you will come to the conclusion that youre a full fledged Atheist.
You just need to go one God further like the rest of us.
To jump on board with Kevin here, I don't think that you are what most Americans accociate with Christians at this point. Honestly, I would not be surprised if at some point in the future you slid towards the agnostic crowd. Believing in a god, but not through a singluar religious route.

That's what happened to a lot of us, I think. After the third time I read the bible, I put it down and realized that I was far better off doing what was right by/for people, than following a hypocritical and hateful book.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali
I still dont get this part of religion.
Jesus supposedly died on the cross for our sins. So how can we still be "marred by sin"?

An omnipotent God designs man with sin.
Then send his son to die for mans sin, which is his own faulty design in the first place.
Son dies for the rest of mankinds sin, asks for forgivenes and has to be forgiven according to Christian doctrine.
Et voila, man is still with original sin so he died for nothing.. :confused:

Now, as if this isnt stupid enough... According to religious doctrine God and Jesus and the virgin Mary are one in the union of the holy trinity.
Judeo Christianity is a monotheology, so there can never be three Gods. Therefore Jesus is the same entity as God, and Mary (Taking this into account God ****ed himself to give birth to himself :crazy:).
So basically God comitted suicide to make up for his own mistake, forgave himself for it but later figured out the whole worship story wouldnt work unless people were born with original sin in the first place and made up his mind about forgiving himself and now man is still with original sin so he wouldnt have had to kill himself in the first place.

I dont find this particularly omnipotent.
At least know what you are talking about before you try to take a sh!t on it.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
so there's no absolute morality? is this not an absolute statement?

if so, how can you begin to assert someone's morality (either based in their mind, or the god who resides in their mind) is somehow fallacious or unnecessary?
First, the statement doesnt claim there is no absolute morality, it just says it doesnt come from God because people pick out parts of scripture that are good and redeem the bad parts as "symbolic" or whatever.
This means "you" make the difference between right and wrong and not the scriptures you get it from.

And no, I dont think there is such a thing as absolute morality. Self awareness is a byproduct of evolution.
We were not given an absolute morality. We only have information in our genetic make up about what we personally think is moral or not. This varies between cultures and even individuals, but generally speaking morals come from a set of rules that benefits the group or herd.
This is what modern morals are, nothing more and nothing less imo.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,592
1,947
AK
I'm not arguing with you. Just telling you that saying stuff like,



Makes you look stupid.
Maybe not quite correct, but it's not like the holy ghost, jesus, and god all being the same thing makes any more sense.

This is like when christian's claim a woman shouldn't have the right to choose because the bible says all life is precious, and I point out either suffering and dying that people encounter from lack of healthcare, or how in the bible god killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including babies in the womb. When confronted though, christian's say that these were before jesus saved everyone, so if you were conceived, you were automatically a bad person and should have been killed evidently. I refuse to believe that a human being merely existing is bad, but that's the logic of the bible. They further try to rationalize that this was god and not jesus...but if they are all "one", it makes no sense at all.
 
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Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Im assuming youre talking about the holy ghost and not Mary being in the trinity?
Hence why I said in "religious scripture" and not Christian scripture. There are religions where Mary is indeed considered part of the holy trinity.
And even within Christianity, the church strugles with an explanation for the Trinity and are talking in circles trying to explain it.
And this still doesnt say anything about the original sin subject that the post was about originally...

Also wasnt Mary allready with Joseph when she got pregnant by the holy spirit or God or whatever? Isnt that adultery? Punishable by death in the same book?
Couldnt God have picked a chick that was single for ****s sake? :D
 
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$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Honestly, I would not be surprised if at some point in the future you slid towards the agnostic crowd. Believing in a god, but not through a singluar religious route.
perhaps you meant "deist"?
That's what happened to a lot of us, I think. After the third time I read the bible, I put it down and realized that I was far better off doing what was right by/for people, than following a hypocritical and hateful book.
is that a rule for you? if so, what's it made of? hope not gold....awkward...
Enlighten me then, in stead of taking said **** and leaving without a counter argument.
no god, eh? then how would a non-knowing god know to market these products to me?



you can't explain that
 

bean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 16, 2004
1,338
0
Boulder
Im assuming youre talking about the holy ghost and not Mary being in the trinity?
Hence why I said in "religious scripture" and not Christian scripture. There are religions where Mary is indeed considered part of the holy trinity.
Religions such as which?
 
so there's no absolute morality? is this not an absolute statement?

if so, how can you begin to assert someone's morality (either based in their mind, or the god who resides in their mind) is somehow fallacious or unnecessary?
Let's simply say that someone's "morality" might be impractical, deluded, or worse. We do not exist in a two state (good, bad) universe. One has to strike the most practical balance at any point in time based on the information available. Dogma impedes striking practical balance.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Let's simply say that someone's "morality" might be impractical, deluded, or worse. We do not exist in a two state (good, bad) universe. One has to strike the most practical balance at any point in time based on the information available. Dogma impedes striking practical balance.
culturally, it varies whether or not taking another wife/lover is "immoral" (openly or discretely).

or put another way, if no one can lord this over you as an act of immorality, how can that act/lifestyle be deemed as unfit for polite society? dogma potentially stymies independent thought, true, but that does not necessarily negate "wisdom of the ancients" just b/c they thought of it first & canonized it.

would you have everyone find their own path? is there room for one more original thought in the world? king solomon recognized thousands of years ago there's nothing new under the sun.

so i guess i'm wondering when it would be ok for a child to disobey his parents...he's at a distinct disadvantage having his world view sole-sourced for the most imperative years. so at the outset when he first decides to break away, it's not terribly practical nor cogent, and as society would dictate, is immoral.

look at me; i'm rambling like kevin on bath salts in a promise keepers bathroom stall
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
14,794
2,525
I have no idea where I am
Kevin-

I studied religion, specifically Catholicism, for three years in High-School and the holly trinity concept was discussed several times. No matter how many times it was explained, it never really made any sense to me. It, like most religions relies on "faith" for understanding. Basically you have to accept an idea as true when you know it to be rationally impossible if not absurd.

One of my religion teachers, a Norbertine Priest, once stood before the class, held up the Bible, and proclaimed it to be nothing more than a collection of stories written by man. There were some slack jaws in the classroom that day. What he was getting at was that the Bible should be used as a guide for how to treat your fellow man.

Unfortunately, a large percentage of Christians select what they want from the Bible and take it as the literal word of God. The critical flaw here is that the idea that man, a finite being, can claim to know the intent of an infinite being, let alone grasp the concept infinite. Even more practitioners of the faith solely rely on the interpretations of their teacher (priest, pastor, minister, etc.) without ever actually reading the book for themselves. And when you challenge them on this, they will become quite defensive, sometimes even violent. They do this because they are in doubt of their own beliefs. It's the conflict between rational thought and "faith".
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
I highly recommend The Sparrow. It's a piece on philosophy and theology disguised as a sci-fi novel. Science fiction proves a great vehicle for testing our notions of absolute morality - murder, rape, slavery, etc.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,848
0
Orange County, CA
Couldnt God have picked a chick that was single for ****s sake? :D
I think Joseph was one of those guys that gets off on being cuckolded. And there's no better way than to have the Ghost Dick of God be the one that stuffs a bun in what was supposed to be your virgin oven.
 

bean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 16, 2004
1,338
0
Boulder
Not the trinity, but I think he's thinking of Catholicism.

That organized ring of pederasts loves to worship Mary.
If so, he's wrong in two ways:
1. Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
2. While Mary does hold a higher status, she is most certainly not part of the holy trinity.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of most organized religion. Seems silly to make up stuff just so you can say that God ****ed himself.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,848
0
Orange County, CA
If so, he's wrong in two ways:
1. Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
2. While Mary does hold a higher status, she is most certainly not part of the holy trinity.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of most organized religion. Seems silly to make up stuff just so you can say that God ****ed himself.
True. He just raped an underage girl instead. Possibly roofied her too.
 
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Kevin

Turbo Monkey
If so, he's wrong in two ways:
1. Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
2. While Mary does hold a higher status, she is most certainly not part of the holy trinity.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of most organized religion. Seems silly to make up stuff just so you can say that God ****ed himself.
Ill admit I was picking and choosing a bit to make a point, but thats what everyone else seems to be doing in religion anyways.
However, Mary is mentioned for example, in the Qu´ran as being part of the trinity. Or at least Muhammed recognized her as part of it...

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [Qur'an 5:116]
Also, Catholics deem Mary "The mother of the Trinity". Therefore the mother of God, the mother of the holy Ghost and the mother of Jesus.
In this view God didnt **** himself but ****ed his own mother.
I see how this is much better.
 
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Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Kevin-

I studied religion, specifically Catholicism, for three years in High-School and the holly trinity concept was discussed several times. No matter how many times it was explained, it never really made any sense to me. It, like most religions relies on "faith" for understanding. Basically you have to accept an idea as true when you know it to be rationally impossible if not absurd.

I think this is mostly because a lot of different stories have become tangled up when they put them all together in a single book (or two singe books), they couldnt talk their way out of all the contradictions and had to start making stuff up.

One of my religion teachers, a Norbertine Priest, once stood before the class, held up the Bible, and proclaimed it to be nothing more than a collection of stories written by man. There were some slack jaws in the classroom that day. What he was getting at was that the Bible should be used as a guide for how to treat your fellow man.

This is another thing that is a contradiction with modern Christians.
Morality in those days was an entirely different animal then morality today.
Slavery, genocide and human sacrifice, all of it usually based on tribalism, has no place in modern morality.
Thats why, as I have said before, you have to nitpick the good parts and throw away the bad parts of scripture to come to a guide to modern day morality
Which inevitably means morality comes not from scripture but from the human mind.
I say this again because most religious people believe morality can only come from scripture..


Unfortunately, a large percentage of Christians select what they want from the Bible and take it as the literal word of God. The critical flaw here is that the idea that man, a finite being, can claim to know the intent of an infinite being, let alone grasp the concept infinite. Even more practitioners of the faith solely rely on the interpretations of their teacher (priest, pastor, minister, etc.) without ever actually reading the book for themselves. And when you challenge them on this, they will become quite defensive, sometimes even violent. They do this because they are in doubt of their own beliefs. It's the conflict between rational thought and "faith".

People believe what they want to believe, and as you said will go all the way when challenged.
People are also sheepish and just believe what theyve been taught without questioning it and thats exactly why religion is so dangerous in the first place.
And I have to add this because otherwise my message is too short and teh allmighty rm demi gods wont let me post it.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
32,004
2,893
sh!t.......and here i thought we were done beating this dead horse......................
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
This is like when christian's claim a woman shouldn't have the right to choose because the bible says all life is precious, and I point out either suffering and dying that people encounter from lack of healthcare, or how in the bible god killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including babies in the womb. When confronted though, christian's say that these were before jesus saved everyone, so if you were conceived, you were automatically a bad person and should have been killed evidently. I refuse to believe that a human being merely existing is bad, but that's the logic of the bible. They further try to rationalize that this was god and not jesus...but if they are all "one", it makes no sense at all.
Yeah that’s some crappy “logic” and terrible hermeneutics……………

How do our Jewish friends deal with those “ugly” parts of the Text? I’d be way more inclined to follow their understanding than 99.9% of most Christian interpretations. Anywho, that contradiction in ideals you point out initially, is a problem with me as well…….it seems only “cute” life is precious, if you’re brown, Asian, African, Mexican, Muslim, or on death row a lot of evangelicals don’t think God thinks your life is precious…..

I’m not even going to attempt to explain (or understand) the whole “Trinity”, I personally don’t give it much thought in my understanding of my faith. I do so for two primary reasons:
A) Ask any Jew to explain how God is omnipotent and yet humans have free will and they’ll tell you it’s a mystery. That mode of thinking, that Hebrew/Eastern way of thinking is very comfortable holding two seemingly contradictory ideas to be simultaneously true. Our Greek/Western educated minds hate trying to resolve that. I’m comfortable with embracing the mystery.
B) Second, WTF does it matter? My job is to live out as best I can the teachings of Jesus and as a byproduct bring heaven to earth in every way I can. What does it really matter if I have the “Trinity” idea understood or lined up correctly in my mind?

As for Mary, there’s a school of thought that the word “virgin” in Hebrew can also mean “young woman/maiden” and that it doesn’t necessarily mean she and Joe didn’t conceive Jesus. If they found indisputable DNA evidence that made Jesus the physical son of Joseph my faith would not be shaken in the slightest. The Jewish understanding of the “Moshiach” doesn’t have at its foundation the Messiah having God/Holy Spirit as His father.

A lot of Christians like to get into the minutia (sp) of this kind of stuff. I see little value in it. The rabbi’s had a saying regarding discussions about the afterlife and such, that they had little value as they didn’t directly affect life right now, so they spent little time discussing such matters.